Yan Who? Yan's toe? No! Yan Lo!

[ukrocky]

Afternoon all,

 

So after a long time playing the gambling, innocent casino owner that is Lynch I've decided to try and branch out and with a choice across the whole faction, I narrowed it down to McCabe or Yan Lo. After umming and ahhing and asking away on social media, I'm going to go with Yan Lo and his mighty, mighty beard. 

This thread will serve me as somewhere to get my thoughts down on various models and hopefully get any tips and tricks, as well as a place for me to complain afterward.

Now, straight off the bat, I'm not actually sure what strategies and schemes Yan Lo is actually better at than Lynch, but in my opinion, Lynch is more than capable of every strategy and sets of schemes, so I don't know why I'd actually branch out other than playing something different. 

I sat down to make some lists the other night as starting points to work from and got a tad frustrated that with what I want to use it kept coming out at 7 models, but here's the first list I went with...:

 

Yan Lo with Reliquary, Recalled Training and Brutal Khakkara (+2SS)

So Reliquary means going hyper aggressive with Izamu and Emissary isn't a massive issue, especially Izamu. Recalled Training means if he lightning jumps in, he  has defensive built in, but can also be super important on his jump in on his 3SS Upgrade (if the situation arises). I just like recalled on masters! The Khakkara allows flexibility, especially with the Emmisary.

Soul Porter

Seems a decent totem, with some nice pushes, cheap too which in a 7 model crew is handy. 

The Lone Swordsman with Recalled Training

I love this guy. He can be a scheme runner extraordinaire with a potential 5AP and a (0) push, and is such a threat for not all that many SS! He's up and down in terms of reliability but his threat plus scheme potential means I usually find a place for him...

Shadow Emmisary with Conflux of Ancestory

Well, I've argued this guys corner alot for Lynch and I think his Ancestory upgrade isn't far off being as good as Lynch's. It improves Yan's late game Ml potential, he can be brought back and can reasonably reliably get fast from Yan, all on a model I love that provides pushes to Izamu/Swordie that also gives fast. Mint. 

Izamu the Armour with Recalled Training

So I've never actually used Izamu as he's always a stone or two too expensive for what I need, and especially compared to the lone swordsmen, but I've got him in for the reliquary potential, as well as the amount of pushes he can be given and the potential lightning dance. Also in for 'Chi tactics' below.

Komainu

Cheap, and arguably more useful than a TT Bro in a Yan Lo crew, though I always run one TT bro in my lynch crews. Just a chance to have a play around with him!

Illuminated or Katakana Sniper

Torn as I love both models. Snipers for their persistent threat, and illuminated for 'Chi tactics' and generally just being decent even without brilliance! 

Chi Tactics

So gaining Chi with Yan seems key but I think a turn 1 stone for cards is important, and the generic plan being hit the illuminated for severe, and hit izamu for severe. Both of these can heal back up to full for 0s during their activation, as well as Yan instilling youth (or as close to full as needed!), but it seems a very card intensive way to get to 3 Chi! Once on 3 Chi it depends on opponents crew IMO but you either go Incoporeal or the 3SS one I can't remember the name of. Preferably both by the end of the game. 

Long Term Tactics

Go aggressive with Swordie, Izamu, Yan and the emmisary, using lightning dance and the 3SS upgrade on Yan. Either isolate with lightning dance, or 'Semi-whirlwind' with Yan's ability. I'm still not sure where/when I'd use Yan over Lynch, or how to get an 8th activation without skimping, but it's my first crew so any tips appreciated! 

[Pyrflamme]

Yan Lo also plays a decent attrition game. Resummoning Ancestors is considerably more of a beating than other summons, and Toshiro allows you to take advantage of both corpse and scrap markers. Yin is a bit harder to justify in a typical Yan Lo crew now that Emissary is available, but sometimes locking something in place will win you games, and the same effect plus - to Wp flips goes nicely with Jacob.

[Adran]

As a general rule, when ever I have played Yan lo, I've had all 3 upgrades on him by the 3rd turn, without having to waste any AP doing Chi tricks. Turn one he normally only gets the one from discarding a card, but that buys him some defence. By the end of turn 3 he is normally on 3+ chi with all the upgrades. 

Bujt then I also have never bothered with reliquary, so I can afford to put misdirection onto him, and he then gets really scary in the middle of an opponents crew. 

Recalled Training is good, but most of his attacks for me end up being from Hunpo assault, so I'm already  on attack and damage. 

Interested to see how you end up with him. 

[SinJ]

Yan Lo is my current master I am focusing on with Ten Thunders. I will bring a much bigger write up to follow as I think he is probably the most undervalued Master in the next faction next to Brewmaster.

For now some easy points to take away is that Fury of the Yomi to give three spirits a 1 AP action is amazing on turns you want to drop scheme markers to score an easy take Prisoner/covert breakthrough etc... Tengu are the best option here. Do not underestimate healing with Yan Lo as it will be the primary way you keep those big beaters alive, or heal new summons from Toshiro.

Reliquary isn't bad, but you should almost always take at least Misdirection. If I know Yan Lo is going to be gaining lots of chi and tarpitting I also take Fortify the Spirit to have two triggers on DF. Cache for damage prevention is also big.

[Mr Janje]

I'll have to try and keep tabs on this post as well, as i'm trying to learn "Master" Yan Lo as well, but for Ressers

 

[Pyrflamme]

15 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

Yan Lo is my current master I am focusing on with Ten Thunders. I will bring a much bigger write up to follow as I think he is probably the most undervalued Master in the next faction next to Brewmaster.

For now some easy points to take away is that Fury of the Yomi to give three spirits a 1 AP action is amazing on turns you want to drop scheme markers to score an easy take Prisoner/covert breakthrough etc... Tengu are the best option here. Do not underestimate healing with Yan Lo as it will be the primary way you keep those big beaters alive, or heal new summons from Toshiro.

Reliquary isn't bad, but you should almost always take at least Misdirection. If I know Yan Lo is going to be gaining lots of chi and tarpitting I also take Fortify the Spirit to have two triggers on DF. Cache for damage prevention is also big.

I agree on healing with Yan Lo on the big guys, but honestly I don't find myself doing it that often with the summons. Between Armor +1 and HtK, they're a ferocious AP sink for enemy models even at only 3 wounds, unless they're facing something like Joss.

[ukrocky]

36 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

Yan Lo is my current master I am focusing on with Ten Thunders. I will bring a much bigger write up to follow as I think he is probably the most undervalued Master in the next faction next to Brewmaster.

For now some easy points to take away is that Fury of the Yomi to give three spirits a 1 AP action is amazing on turns you want to drop scheme markers to score an easy take Prisoner/covert breakthrough etc... Tengu are the best option here. Do not underestimate healing with Yan Lo as it will be the primary way you keep those big beaters alive, or heal new summons from Toshiro.

Reliquary isn't bad, but you should almost always take at least Misdirection. If I know Yan Lo is going to be gaining lots of chi and tarpitting I also take Fortify the Spirit to have two triggers on DF. Cache for damage prevention is also big.

I just don't get misdirection, never seen the value, but I'm sure I'm missing something. Convince me!

[Rurouni Benshin]

21 minutes ago, ukrocky said:

I just don't get misdirection, never seen the value, but I'm sure I'm missing something. Convince me!

Misdirection is a nice upgrade, but moderately less useful for Yan Lo, IMHO.  Mostly because he's got great defensive abilities from his Ascendant upgrades already.  The upgrades I take on him are Brutal Khakkara, Reliquary, and sometimes Recalled Training.  If you have Sensei Yu, he's a "Must Bring" in my book, since he can copy "Instill Youth" and heal Yan Lo when necessary.  Along with "Wandering River Style", you have a lot of movement manipulation, along with the Soul Porter.

Similarly to Lynch, Yan Lo benefits a lot from models with his respective sub-type (Lynch with "Darkened" and Yan Lo with "Ancestor").  I practically bring an all "Ancestor" list whenever I play Yan Lo (with the only exception being Sensei Yu).  The models I take in his crew have traditionally been Soul Porter, Izamu, the Emissary, and Chiaki.  Usually I've got enough points for at least one Ashigaru or Komainu, since both have passive benefits from being around friendly "Ancestors".  The synergy with Yan Lo is simply just utilizing as many of the benefits he can get from having other "Ancestor" models. 

Of course, that's not to say he can't work with non-Ancestors, but his true bread and butter is when he's playing with them.

[SinJ]

1 hour ago, ukrocky said:

I just don't get misdirection, never seen the value, but I'm sure I'm missing something. Convince me!

Misdirection is a fantastic upgrade for a couple reasons. First is that you can pitch or flip any mask if your opponent doesn't have enough cards to counter the effect of hitting his own model, this is essentially a "block" of sorts. Second is that if your opponent does want his attack to go through he is going to burn cards to do it. By diminishing his control hand you are gaining advantage. I almost always take it as Yan Lo's DF and WP are below average and even with Impossible to Wound and Incorporeal having a way to negate an opponent's damage is very powerful. This is also useful before you have upgrades equipped as passing damage off onto a hard to kill model is effective mitigation.

Yan Lo really should be played aggressively after you equip upgrades and get in the thick of it. Misdirection combined with stones and a solid hand will go a long ways especially against spell slingers.

[SinJ]

Here's an expanded post on my current thoughts on Yan Lo.

My best tip for Yan Lo is to figure out how you think your turns should go when building a list for him. Specifically how you will utilize the Chi that you gain each turn. Which models best assist you in accomplishing this will determine what you choose.

There are a few different avenues in list building with Yan Lo, and as usual they generally build best toward specific schemes/strategies. Yan Lo can exceed at Interference, Take Prisoner, Covert Breakthrough, Convict Labor or any other scheme where your opponent is relying on positioning to win him the game. I would generally avoid schemes that you HAVE to kill your opponent’s models as he works better as a healer/enabler and tarpit. Also many of the lists I like with him contain many minions. If Hunting Party is in the pool you will probably need to accept you are giving your opponent points each round or focus on protecting your own models. This really just means that Yan Lo can adjust on the fly with his options to best respond to your opponent or force them to make some awkward choices. For upgrades I almost always take Misdirection and Recalled Training. Rarely due I take Reliquary due to it's very card and activation intensive nature.

The first big decision that you need to explore is if you are taking Brutal Khakkara or not. This will push you right into your first list choice of taking Shadow Emissary with the Conflux upgrade. Shadow Emissary has done a lot for Yan Los game in that Brutal Khakkara is now much more than just a tool to engage multiple models and threaten damage disengaging strikes. The bonus to MI for Yan Lo is significant as a table buff so long as the Emissary isn’t dead. This also enables Yan Lo to mulch through cheap summons or low soul stone minions. It is fairly easy to Hunpo Assault between two or more targets, and inflict significant damage. With his upgrades attached, soulstones in your cache and one or more defensive triggers Yan Lo will take a significant concerted effort to even potentially remove. With Yan Lo engaging and whittling down your opponent's chaff the remainder of your list can focus on schemes. With the Emissary, bringing Enforcers with Recalled Training is an effective way to fill out the remainder of the list. Shadow Effigy gets a special mention here as giving Into Shadow to Yan Lo then chain activating him is excellent.

If you are not taking Brutal Khakkara then your list needs to bring both elements of scheming and killing. I really like Toshiro and a punk Zombie or two for this role as you will be working to set up and execute big Lightning Dances on your opponent’s models. A Dawn Serpent for ranged blasts could also work well in this set up to combo with Toshiro. Double positive flipping Punk Zombies are scary as they will eat your opponent’s hand lest they risk big severe damage. In this setup Yan Lo will look to Lightning Dance/heal and buff your frontline models.

For mercenaries, in general Sue is an extremely solid choice for Yan Lo. He brings card draw and some decent deterrents to Ca which really keeps Incorporeal from being a bad upgrade choice. Freikorps Librarian is also solid for an additional heal and one that can target Yan Lo. I usually bring a Librarian with Recalled Training if I choose the Emissary.

[Rurouni Benshin]

19 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

. Misdirection combined with stones and a solid hand will go a long ways especially against spell slingers.

By "spell slingers", I'm guessing you're referring to Ca attacks?  If that's the case, what about him do you see him having an advantage against?

[SinJ]

13 minutes ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

By "spell slingers", I'm guessing you're referring to Ca attacks?  If that's the case, what about him do you see him having an advantage against?

I meant that it helps mitigate against CA attacks as Misdirection can redirect to another model within 2" assuming you have a mask and they want to discard two. Yan Lo doesn't really have a lot of help vs Casting other than stones to prevent damage and Impossible to wound if you have the upgrade.

[ukrocky]

Quote

38 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

Misdirection is a fantastic upgrade for a couple reasons. First is that you can pitch or flip any mask if your opponent doesn't have enough cards to counter the effect of hitting his own model, this is essentially a "block" of sorts. Second is that if your opponent does want his attack to go through he is going to burn cards to do it. By diminishing his control hand you are gaining advantage. I almost always take it as Yan Lo's DF and WP are below average and even with Impossible to Wound and Incorporeal having a way to negate an opponent's damage is very powerful. This is also useful before you have upgrades equipped as passing damage off onto a hard to kill model is effective mitigation.

Yan Lo really should be played aggressively after you equip upgrades and get in the thick of it. Misdirection combined with stones and a solid hand will go a long ways especially against spell slingers.

 

Q on misdirection - surely your opponent just does better target selection/better placement of models. They may occasionally have to waste an AP to walk or push a model away from the 2" but that's it...? Sure if my opponent stands in a circle, ace, happy days...?

[SinJ]

1 minute ago, ukrocky said:

Q on misdirection - surely your opponent just does better target selection/better placement of models. They may occasionally have to waste an AP to walk or push a model away from the 2" but that's it...? Sure if my opponent stands in a circle, ace, happy days...?

It also works on the approach so you can Misdirect onto one of your own hard to kill models for example. The Shadow Effigy is great for this. They can absolutely ignore Yan Lo, but if he's Hunpo Assaulting all their little guys or even just engaging them he's buying me points for Interference. I've found that when opponents read everything Yan Lo can do they will try to kill him for what he can give my army.

[Rurouni Benshin]

10 minutes ago, SaintScythus said:

I meant that it helps mitigate against CA attacks as Misdirection can redirect to another model within 2" assuming you have a mask and they want to discard two. Yan Lo doesn't really have a lot of help vs Casting other than stones to prevent damage and Impossible to wound if you have the upgrade.

Oh, you were referring to when he's Incorporeal.  I see now. 

 

7 minutes ago, ukrocky said:

Q on misdirection - surely your opponent just does better target selection/better placement of models. They may occasionally have to waste an AP to walk or push a model away from the 2" but that's it...? Sure if my opponent stands in a circle, ace, happy days...?

Of course, being in place for Misdirection to work is part of the challenge.  Fortunately, with Hunpo Assault, you have an 8" range for placement.  For strategies like "Guard The Stash" or "Extraction", I'd imagine it be easier to find more than 1 enemy model within 2" of each other.  For "Interference", it might be harder, but obviously those are things you need to consider when choosing Masters at the beginning of the game.

[tomjoad]

"Being surrounded by enemy models" is sort of Yan Lo's primary jam. I don't like Misdirection on masters like Shenlong or McCabe, but on Yan Lo I think it makes a lot of sense.

[ukrocky]

But 2ss to assume your opponent is going to sloppily place models and then you're going to spend ss on masks...?

 

Note: I like the idea of using a shadow effigy as a 'bodyguard'

[Tokapondora]

The actual using the Misdirection is a bonus. The threat of it being a possibility is often enough to make opponents think twice, and the fact that you can also easily transfer it to your own allies makes it hard for your opponent to put a lot of resources into an attack. Generally speaking, I find it hard to take a Melee master and leave out Misdirect because it just does so much, and only leave it out when there's another upgrade I just feel I need that little bit more. (In Yan's case, not Recalled Training. The Ca 8 should generally be enough to be winning most duels anyways and his attacks arent scary enough to really benefit from the + to damage)

That really sums up my use of all of Yan Lo really. Reliquary isn't so much there to bring back Ancestors as it is to make it clear to opponents that killing them isn't going to help them much. Ive played Yan Lo a lot, and while Ive only used Reliquary 2-3 times, I've had people simply try their hardest to get out of Yin's way rather than having to deal with it because actually trying is ultimately futile. Having Misdirect be there will force your opponent to make a tough choice. Also, disregarding the ability to send attacks at your own models (ancestors which can take a beating and can be healed at the drop of a hat), if your opponent doesn't have any other models near when they're up against Yan they're in a iffy position anyways because being anywhere near Yan Lo should be meaning a Yin or Izamu is taking over any second now while Yan is tanky enough to eat whatever they're gonna be trying anyway. On that note, I also tend to take the Fortify the Spirit. It just means that between it and Misdirect you have a 50/50 chance of triggering something that'll make it a hassle for your opponent to work around.

Yan's core strategy is jumping into the center of the action and hurling enemies to all corners of the map where you have a beatstick/tarpit waiting. You're wasting him when he's not continuously on the offense, which gets aided immensely with ItW, Inorporeal, and a some nice triggers to boot. When playing Yan Lo you're playing mind games and reading your opponent. If it looks like they're targetting Yan Lo, put everything on buffing him out. If it looks like they just want to get away from him, chase them down and have something strong waiting around the corner. He's very versatile and can change tactics instantly, so you hound your opponent relentlessly while effortlessly eating whatever they try to dish out.

 

Also, minorsuggestion which I tried for fun once and was actually pleasantly surprised by; deploy a Clockwork Trap or two. If you need a model to be far away from their crew, a well placed Trap lets Yan kick it about  16" from where your opponent wants it to be, and they're just tough enough that when hidden slightly, your opponent isn't going to waste AP on destroying them. 

[Yvarre]

A Fast Yan Lo (who will also be pushed 5"-10" up the board) can Hunpo Assault twice a turn.  In any strategy where it's at all likely that your opponent might have two or more models within a 5" bubble of one another, this can become a serious AP multiplier as there is also an 8" place.  In Strats like Turf War and Extraction, it's likely that there might be 3 or 4 models that Yan Lo can zap into the thick of.  With built in positives and the potential to pop a recalled training, it's likely he will kill some models with that 3/4/5 damage spread on Brutal Kakabanana.  Should any survive, they'll be engaged with him and his damaging disengaging strikes, making him a prime target to attack.  Placing him in misdirection range of the models less likely to die in the assault can definitely help pour on more hurt and deplete one's opponent's resources.

[Patzer]

On Misdirection. Getting it onto opponents is opportunistic, while it is far more reliable to just hit your own models. Shadow Effigy and all of the Ancestors are pretty good target for this.

[Tawg]

I feel like I've learned a lot thus far.

And I really like Yan Lo, although I don't play nearly as much as I would like to, so unfortunately I have very few games under my belt with him.

I really need to get the print on demand cards for him, my FLGS was still carrying Yan Lo from 1.5 when I purchased him, so I don't have his cards currently , plus that page of my Crossroads book is falling out, so it's a pretty rough state when I play him and keep flipping pages to reference things.

But I like all these tips for the most part.

[Adran]

As a general rule I pick which fights Yan lo gets involved in, and I have a huge say in where he is in those fights, so its rare that I don't have him engaged with multiple models if he is engaged. That means that enemy models that are 5" apart are fair misdirect targets. 

They may be able to push models out, but they probably won't be able to walk out very often. It works fairly well with low to mid masks from your hand as well as randomly flipped masks, and with incorporial and Impossible to wound, even if they do discard cards to hit him, it probably won't hurt him too badly. 

And finally, he can pass it off to his own models if he is close to death. I've done it early on to add chi by killing the souls porter

I almost never would spend stones on it, unless I could garentee its going to save him, but it shows up often enough for me that its a pretty good defence. Probably more often than I can use Marcus' defend me trigger. 

Your value from it may vary, as it depends on how you play Yan lo, and where he is. For me,  He isn't misaki, whoo goes after one model and kills that, he is more of a Mei Feng in his desire to hit lots of models and be in the thick of the fight. 

[Rurouni Benshin]

On 5/5/2016 at 4:37 PM, tomjoad said:

"Being surrounded by enemy models" is sort of Yan Lo's primary jam. I don't like Misdirection on masters like Shenlong or McCabe, but on Yan Lo I think it makes a lot of sense.

Why would you be opposed to using it on Shenlong?  With "Low River Style" on him, and even so much as a Defensive +1 on him, his chances of getting a Mask to trigger it are pretty high.  It was actually just this past weekend that I used the combination on him, and it was pretty well executed.  I'm just wondering how different your experience with him is.

[tomjoad]

I'd rather use 2ss on something else. Like you said, Shenlong will almost always have Defensive +1 or better if he's in the thick of the fight (on top of his Hard to Kill and insane amount of healing), so there's no reason for me to spend even more stones keeping him alive. It's not that Misdirection is bad on Shenlong; it's that I'd rather upgrade a couple of Tengu to Brothers, or The Lone Swordsman to Izamu, or something else with those stones.

[Rurouni Benshin]

30 minutes ago, tomjoad said:

I'd rather use 2ss on something else. Like you said, Shenlong will almost always have Defensive +1 or better if he's in the thick of the fight (on top of his Hard to Kill and insane amount of healing), so there's no reason for me to spend even more stones keeping him alive. It's not that Misdirection is bad on Shenlong; it's that I'd rather upgrade a couple of Tengu to Brothers, or The Lone Swordsman to Izamu, or something else with those stones.

Personally, I find the Lone Swordsman to be very comparable to Izamu.  Lone Swordsman + Recalled Training is still 1 ss cheaper than Izamu alone.  Tengu and TT Brothers are situationally good, but it would depend on the schemes at hand.  I've only played with the Tengu for a couple of games, but I find that the other Monks I play being able to accomplish what they would normally do. 

In my case this past weekend, Misdirection kept my opponent from going after Shenlong for a long while, without risking Misdirection being triggered.  Kept him alive and away from harms way for just about the entirety of the game, and it allowed me to run amok behind his forces.