Jordon Posted May 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 2 hours ago, Breng77 said: I've used the ice golem a few times and found him best with Colette because prompt + the upgrade for a push and armor is a strong interaction. It gives mobility to the golem and can get him to armor 3 or 4 easily (push 12" and gain +2 armor) this lets him use smash fairly easily. Or push him up and bounce spells off him with a silent one. That said the blessed with the same upgrade is probably better with df 6, htw, and then armor 2. Yeah but what doesn't prompt make better though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LunarSol Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 I'm curious if the Golem concept as a whole might just work better if it was designed around the 8 SS range or brought up to 12. 10 just feels a little awkward, as it competes directly with henchmen but would probably work better if it was in a space that either let it act as a discount henchman or one of those expensive extreme enforcers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Three things I would change: 1) Replace adrenaline on Ironsides with regeneration. It would stop people from trying to play her like a bad Mei Feng. They could,focus on her amazing board control, top tier buffing and support. 2) Change the Emissary. Every. Single. Thing. Our little wizard buddy shouldn't be an angry bull robot competing for the exact same spot as our four other amazing high cost beaters. Change his role, change his sculpt, have him be something intesting instead of overdone. 3) Give is Hoffman, or access to his robots. It's infuriating that everyone under the sun can take all our good toys and there is literally a guild M&SU member who nets us nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breng77 Posted May 2, 2016 Report Share Posted May 2, 2016 Meh I like that adrenaline does other things than just regeneration. Giving her regen, and not have adrenaline reduce each turn would be nice. I quite like our emissary, it works well with a number of masters and is a versitile attacker/support piece, but then I don't rate our typical beaters as highly as some others. I'm totally for Hoffman being dual faction arcanists/guild. He would make more sense in our faction than some of the other masters seem to at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted May 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 I really like the emissary but I am less convinced on some of it's master specific upgrades. I think Raspy got the best of the draw hands down. I think Kaeris, Ironsides and Mei are all decent worth a looking into. Colette's is pretty meh. Finally we have Marcus and Ramos who I don't think I will ever bother with as they are too situational (Marcus) or just plain bad (Ramos). Fortunately both of those masters have plenty of other options in that price range that are great inclusions. As for Ramos getting access to guild constructs, well that already exists in the form of avatar Ramos. It's a shame it's not campaign specific as it's one thing from version 1.5 that never got carried over to m2e. To be fair though, I personally think arcanists have better constructs anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted May 3, 2016 Report Share Posted May 3, 2016 I'll definitely take the Marcus specific upgrade against Gremlins. It's probably worthwhile against most crews too. Even ignoring the aura, having the flamebull denying defensive triggers is amazing. If you can loop a cerberus into the aura, you're laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzakuni Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 1. Metal gamin get back Htk. Without it, it is useless and easily the worst 4 point investment of the game. 2. I agree about everything to make Ironsides a better master to play with as has been suggested. 3. Have kaeris immolate be a bigger threat. As this is her only real attack it should be more of a master class attack instead of a damage tap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted May 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 50 minutes ago, Suzakuni said: 1. Metal gamin get back Htk. Without it, it is useless and easily the worst 4 point investment of the game. You really think it's that bad? I really didn't think the loss of htk was even a big deal considering it's armor+2 generally meant it was only taking a single point of damage anyway. It's only issue with me is that it's a lousy bodyguard due to "protection of metal" being obnoxious to maintain. I can think of other models I would consider "worst" such as guild guards, desperate merc's, low river monks, and the absolute worst - electrical creation. Speaking of, I'd actually wish the electrical creation gave me any sort of reason to hire it other than turn one scrap for Ramos. It's such a terrible use of 4ss and I can't think of any sort of combo or synergy in which I'd ever bother hiring it. I know it primarily exists as a summon for Ramos, but I don't see why it couldn't have been at least cheaper to entice hiring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzakuni Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 I've gone over it numerous times, but it's lack of speed, lack of threat,and lack of range made being a defensive body it's only real asset and as armor 2 doesn't do much with 4 hit points. Htk at least made it more of a defensive body for things like interference and turf war and if the opponent wanted to kill it, it would at least take a full activation minnimum. whereas the electrical creation generates easy plentiful scrap, plus when used with summoning makes great easy gernade/bombs that with the right set up could get annoying very fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 3 hours ago, Jordon said: Speaking of, I'd actually wish the electrical creation gave me any sort of reason to hire it other than turn one scrap for Ramos. It's such a terrible use of 4ss and I can't think of any sort of combo or synergy in which I'd ever bother hiring it. I know it primarily exists as a summon for Ramos, but I don't see why it couldn't have been at least cheaper to entice hiring it. So much this. It's a tricky knot though, a certain SS cost is obviously wanted for that scrap, you also don't want the EC summon to cost too many resources as it functions as an emergency scrap source for Ramos so you can't make EC that much more powerful without messing with that. Give Ramos a (0) that makes a scrap that costs some similar resources as EC summon. Make summon EC cost more resources. Make the EC better: Give it an attack with decent skill and shit damage track so it can engage people and give a hired EC have some chance reaching the enemy without more expensive models spending AP to push it (a way to delay the explosion or more speed). Or Make the EC not drop scrap. Make the EC 2 SS. Give Ramos a (0) that makes a scrap that costs some similar resources as EC summon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 I'm surprised that they made the electrical creation hireable at all, I would have expected it to be like Seishin and mindless zombies, summonable only. That said, the Ice Golem handgrenade is an amusing option for it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breng77 Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 On May 3, 2016 at 10:31 PM, Jordon said: I really like the emissary but I am less convinced on some of it's master specific upgrades. I think Raspy got the best of the draw hands down. I think Kaeris, Ironsides and Mei are all decent worth a looking into. Colette's is pretty meh. Finally we have Marcus and Ramos who I don't think I will ever bother with as they are too situational (Marcus) or just plain bad (Ramos). Fortunately both of those masters have plenty of other options in that price range that are great inclusions. As for Ramos getting access to guild constructs, well that already exists in the form of avatar Ramos. It's a shame it's not campaign specific as it's one thing from version 1.5 that never got carried over to m2e. To be fair though, I personally think arcanists have better constructs anyways. I actually don't mind the Ramos upgrade, it is not flashy, but having the brass arachnid give the emissary reactivate is really quite good. I find the emissary to be nice for Ramos because it is very hard to take down with df 6 with positive flips, it can cast into engagements which I find huge with a Ramos crew, and his discard to allow a 1 AP action from another model can be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin839 Posted May 4, 2016 Report Share Posted May 4, 2016 Common consensus around my area is the emissaries are game patches to masters. The good masters got sub-par to ok upgrades because they are already strong. The weaker masters got the best upgrades to bring them up to more competitive status. So it makes sense the upgrade for Ramos, Marcus, and Colette aren't as good as raspy, kaeris, and Ironsides. And if you haven't tried the arcane emissary with kaeris do it! Drawing 3 extra cards a turn is bonkers and on the wish list side of things, I want mei feng to be able to take both the shadow emissary and the arcane emissary. That would be crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I wonder if letting the ice golem armor reduce damage to zero would work. Would definitely give him a unique feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 41 minutes ago, orkdork said: I wonder if letting the ice golem armor reduce damage to zero would work. Would definitely give him a unique feel. And/or not being ignorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted May 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 20 hours ago, orkdork said: I wonder if letting the ice golem armor reduce damage to zero would work. Would definitely give him a unique feel. Maybe if it were a DF trigger (like the molemen), but having it naturally reduce to 0 would probably push it too much in the other direction as lower costed models essentially become completely ineffectual. Personally I would love to see how it performs with 14 Wds. The Df 2 would still mean it's still going to loose just about every DF duel, but perhaps the 14 wounds would be enough to keep it around for a few turns, or at the very least eat up enough of the opponents AP to make the trade more favourable. I sort of feel like it could also benefit from some sort of terrifying since it's actually quite a intimidating looking model. This would also help it from it's death by a thousand cuts since it generally dies from a barrage of low attacks. At least with terrifying it would prevent some of the lower costed models from pouring a ton of attacks into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orkdork Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 6 hours ago, Jordon said: Maybe if it were a DF trigger (like the molemen), but having it naturally reduce to 0 would probably push it too much in the other direction as lower costed models essentially become completely ineffectual. That would be the intended effect. As for if it'd be too powerful, I really don't know. Malifaux has that awesome property of "you don't have to kill your opponent's stuff". But then anything absolute can be problematic. My instinct is that it'd be a bad approach for that reason. I think I like your 14 Wds suggestion the most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angyi Posted May 27, 2016 Report Share Posted May 27, 2016 How about: the golem stays the same, but it drops two summoned ice gamin when killed, before removed 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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