Hans vs trapper - is Hans underpowered? or the trapper over?

[admiralvorkraft]

I like him in a Guild McMourning crew (wrong forum, I know).

It takes some set-up but I can get him a 5" push top of turn one really easily and not miss the AP, ideally Hans roasts a scheme runner and then the rest of my crew piles in. I find that Hans' problem is that he brings a lot of answers to questions that your opponent probably isn't asking, but with Hunting Party and a kill strat he's scored points for me.

And his model is, of course, beautiful.

[dropdeadcriminal]

I bring out Hans often. Always with Scout the Field and usually with an I Pay Better upgrade in range. I park him in the most open firing lane on the field even if there are no enemy models there. Half his power is that people are afraid of him. People will spend extra movement to avoid his firing line and to stay in cover. He does not randomize and can use the Disarm trigger to make a pain in the ass model that is engaged with one of your crew impotent for the turn (and he can reference the field guide to guarantee it). Shooting off the upgrades is something I have only considered once (McCabes damn light-saber). 

[smeemo-on-wyrd]

As a new player, I'm excited to try him out.  He's got so much more character than the Trapper.  Heck, I'll probably go for the Hans super one-turn snipinglol show a couple times just for kicks.  And later on down the road, when I and the other players in my fledgling meta have all improved, maybe that psychological factor would come into play.  I don't know.  Seems like it boils down to: the Trapper does more for its cost than Hans, but Hans is a fun model though by no means ineffective.

[Viks_Masamune]

Hans makes a great terrain denial tool.  If I play a new opponent, first thing I do is whip out a tape measure and stretch that bad boy out all the way in front of Hans.  Once they figure out what I'm doing, they start bunching up their models behind terrain, and only move them between cover.  Hans' damage track isn't great, and his tactical actions are only useful in very particular situations.  BUT, the psychological factor is pretty awesome.  I tend to run the Viks, and there is nothing more they love than secluded groups of enemies.  The ability to shoot into melee without randomizing is a nice benefit with a close combat crew, and the relentless trait is helpful as well.  He is expensive, and slower than dragging a bathtub up K2 with your teeth; but when used properly, can really throw a damper on an opponent.

[grandpapanurgl]

probably answered somewhere but i dont use hans much, who chooses the upgrade that is removed, the hans player or the victim?

[Freman]

I'm pretty sure it's Hans. 

[Eclipse]

19 hours ago, Shen Long said:

He is good with Shenlong. Give him Recalled training und let him shoot focused twice (Fast). With Sh7 near Sensei Yu and plus Flips he deals a lot of damage.

But I have to say that all models are good if they are Fast and have Recalled Training.

Everything is good with Shenlong. I can't wait for my next game to try Fuhatsu with Recalled Training. The (2) Steam Gatling Sweep with Focus, then (0) Focus and (1) Steam Gatling Burst from Fast all on the turn with Recalled Training...
Anyway, what Adran says is incredibly right. The discard can be valuable in it's own right. Say you play Misaki for example and want to exhaust the opponent's hand quickly to Assassinate something or start eating their SS. Pair this up with Yamaziko and GG 2016's hidden schemes and suddenly your opponent plays with no hand and is ready to A'd. Almost as if you are against Som'er Jones. Oh, and look, I can remove that summoning upgrade from Toshiro! ...Huh, Howard, where'd your Imbued Energies go? And so on.
You know what, guys? I'm gonna buy Hans one of these days, and I'm even gonna play him

[Arash_Suri]

I'm a pretty competitive gamer, and I like Hans. Obviously at 9 points (with Scout the Field) he's not an auto-take, but I find him making it into a lot of my lists. He's good in Guard the Stash (he ignores them with googles), Extraction, and Interference. Basically any strat where he's good in a corner, and you can predict where the opposing crew will end up. 

Also, I think of how many annoying totems there are in the game. Like Lost Love, Copy Cat Killer, or Primordial Magic. It is nice to be able to delete a key minion or peon turn one. Or to one shot a pigapult, which can really hamper a gremlin player's plan. Pretty money at stopping the rat cycle if you face Outcasts too, since he can single shot the obedient wretch. 

Obviously all these scenarios require you to ditch a card for focus, then focus as a (1) then shoot. They also require at least 1 severe in hand. So it is a pretty expensive exercise, but it can be pretty game changing if done turn 1, when you don't generally need to have an amazing hand otherwise. After his one turn kill, I find that I generally just focus and shoot things with him, sometimes ditching a low card to get a suit I want. 

Lastly, with outcasts I find that I take hunting party almost always. As an enforcer, Hans is pretty good at killing hard to reach or hidden peons/minions so he can be pretty key at getting you that third hunting party point. 

Is Hans + Trapper better than double trapper? I don't know, as always with Malifaux is depends on the schemes, the board, and your opponent. But I wouldn't go so far as saying that a trapper is always better. That being said, I almost always include at least 1 trapper, whereas Hans is scenario specific. 

[Armond]

I could see Hans sitting further back waiting for a melee-ball to form, then letting loose seeing as he doesn't have to worry about the randomize.  He is expensive, but I am sure with the right scenario he can make it worth the purchase.  I know with reading the way Von Schill is and how he loves combat, that Hans may have a chance at shining.  The trapper is a great choice though for its cost.  Just reading up on it I see there are tons of accolades heaped on the Freikorps Trapper, and it all seems rightly earned. 

I am anxious to give both of them a go though, and seeing if I can determine based on scenarios, terrain, and opponent in which situation one is better than the other or perhaps fielding both at the same time.   Consider the fact that the Trapper is a bargain at his price, and you may be paying a SS or two more than you would want with Hans.  But if you look at it like you are overpaying a little with Hans but underpaying with the Trapper, it may even it out.  Some redundancy(with the fact they are both potent shooters) combined with some situational advantages(they both shine in their specific bubble of situations) you could have the ability to adapt to whatever happens. 

Field the two about 4" inches apart(so they have the potential to both focus down on one target a turn), Hodgepodge Effigy 2"(but between the two so the Mist can hit both for some lowered accuracy) away from either screened by VS and his fellow beatstick(insert Strong Arm, Johan, etc.) and scheme runners.  Of course this is all based on whatever scenario and other variable which would allow this to be even viable. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I've only played him once, but I like the idea of running Hans in my Viks crew.  Mainly because if they get into melee and don't actually kill the other model, they're in a world of trouble if that enemy model activates again before they do.  hans might make the difference there.

 

[lusciousmccabe]

10 hours ago, Armond said:

Field the two about 4" inches apart(so they have the potential to both focus down on one target a turn), Hodgepodge Effigy 2"(but between the two so the Mist can hit both for some lowered accuracy) away from either screened by VS and his fellow beatstick(insert Strong Arm, Johan, etc.) and scheme runners.  Of course this is all based on whatever scenario and other variable which would allow this to be even viable. 

You can probably use the Effigy elsewhere since Hans and the Trapper tend to just outrange anything that would shoot back at them. About the only thing that's liable to go for them is an opposing trapper, who doesn't really care about soft cover anyway. 

[dropdeadcriminal]

On 5/6/2016 at 3:50 AM, Armond said:

Field the two about 4" inches apart(so they have the potential to both focus down on one target a turn), Hodgepodge Effigy 2"(but between the two so the Mist can hit both for some lowered accuracy) away from either screened by VS and his fellow beatstick(insert Strong Arm, Johan, etc.) and scheme runners.  Of course this is all based on whatever scenario and other variable which would allow this to be even viable.

If I take both Hans and a Trapper (or even 2 trappers) I like to give them different firing lanes. Doubling down on one just means that the opponent avoids it or they rush over to try to tie up both of your snipers. I just want to keep them both within 10" of whoever I have holding "I Pay Better". Remember that if you have "Scout the Field" on Hans he can get a +1 focus for I Pay Better, +1 Focus for focusing, and can drop Scout the field to ignore line of sight. So as long as you have a high card to make sure he hits and one for damage, he can drop a 5AP model, on his own, turn 1. Its better to do it turn 1 since it can potentially cost a lot of cards (1 for "I Pay ...", one to reference the field guide to ignore armor or incorporeal if needed, one for hit if needed, and one for damage if needed).  

I have not found the need for Hodgepodge since it is only soft cover. I can usually just place the snipers in soft cover or even hard. The trapper has from the shadows so you can place him wherever you want him, and Hans will have scout the filed so he get an extra walk at the beginning.