Paddywhack Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Vent... I hate Outcasts and all they can bring. Freaking Ashes and Dust, Nothing Beast, Taelor, Killjoy.... OK. So how do you all handle Outcasts big hitters? Specifically Ashes and Dust? He can't be charged, can get almost anywhere on the table, due to 3 general AP, hits like a train and you can't even put conditions on him. That with a ml 7, decent defense and doesn't actually die when you kill it. As with a lot of Outcasts imo he is a bit overpowered, even at 13SS (imo any models over 10SS are very hard to balance in this game and tend to be the worst NPE). What do we have that can take him on? Rogue Necro and Izamu might, but not if he gets the charge on them first. You can't really lure him out of position or try and ignore him due to his 3 AP and great threat range. I've just not been able to find a way to not have this one model completely screw me. If I try to avoid him (can't) or just run my schemes he ends up wiping up my crew. When you throw in models like the Nothing Beast (another 3APs for attacking plus a built in Bury trigger), Taelor with the Relic Hammer (really, Relic Hammer? More like "Everyone and their brother, except Resurrs, Hammer") or gods forbid Killjoy, I feel like I don't even have a chance and the game becomes no fun anymore. I don't mind losing, do it most of the time, but I like to think I at least had a chance. Against these models I don't even feel like I have a slim chance. I tried last game to stay hopeful and to focus on getting VP's , but was more or less tabled by turn 3-4 with only a couple of VP. I just dread seeing Outcasts and it makes me less interested in playing the game. Any good model combos to try and neuter Ashes and Dust? I've got most Resurr models to play with, just can't seem to find the right combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whut Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 It'll help if we know what a typical list looks like for you. Ashes & Dust shouldn't be too damaging for Ressers. With a Walk-Charge it has very very little chance of even killing a full wound Belle without a super lucky damage flip. Aside from that, there are other ways to stop him. Kirai can fling Izamu 3" away from him for 3 attacks while Ashes himself can't do much back against Armor +2. Spirit Molly can summon a Night Terror in base contact with it which forces it to waste 1-2 AP on disengaging strikes or 2 AP killing it. Horror Molly can do the usual Punk Zombie summon which really damages Ashes & Dust. McMourning rips apart the Ashen Core because he ignores all of it's defenses. Keep in mind this is a 13 stone model with only 9 wounds and no defensive abilities. Once it dies, send something that ignores armor against the core (or just hit it 6 times with anything) and you're done. Even better if you can do that AFTER they combine but before the end of the turn. It's not the end of the world, even if it might be tough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Also remember that whilst Ashes and Dust can cover a lot of the board, if they want to reform, it will need to be on a side third. If it comes into the middle (say for turf war) and you kill it, the Dust storm can't reach the ashen core in one turn to reform. (You can even put your models around the core to stop the Storm reaching it if its near the extreme of its rejoining range) Failing that, try playing a crew with it for a game. when used badly, it's dead very quickly. You'll have a much better insight into how it is used and what its weaknesses are when you've tried to run it yourself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR TORGUE Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 I've had Ashes and Dust killed many times in games; for 13ss its has a low threshold of wounds and like Adran stated it can be focussed down and will mostly predictably stick to the edges of the board. It brings a huge mind-game being a evil looking sand beast on a 50mm base; but it can be killed and will go down with enough effort or shooting. Also like you say he's 13ss and thats already over 25% of the opponents crew taken up if your playing to 50ss meaning the crew may be on the smaller side if they want a henchman in the mix too... I say shoot it...or hire bishop to hunt it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargazer Posted April 16, 2016 Report Share Posted April 16, 2016 Nico + Vally. Make Vally fast, fly her into melee and flurry. With the trigger, soul stone if you need to hit it and it will go down fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clockwork_Fish Posted June 18, 2016 Report Share Posted June 18, 2016 On 2016-04-16 at 3:45 PM, Stargazer said: Nico + Vally. Make Vally fast, fly her into melee and flurry. With the trigger, soul stone if you need to hit it and it will go down fast. This. Also, it's both a construct and undead, so Student of Steel or Sinew can potentially put the hurt on him. Use Molly to walk the Student in with Whispers of Future Flesh, then use Imbue Vigour to slap reactivate on it, accomplice activate, then Flurry away. If you manage to kill A&D, the student can finish off the core on reactivate. As for Nothing Beast, I suggest Yin. She has a casting action to get around incorporeal, and targets Wp to get around his crazy high Df. Also, Nothing Beast's melee attack is a Ca action, so Gnawing Fear hurts him a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukemouse Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 If your opponent often brings A&D and declares outcast, consider using McMourning so his "ignores armor and hard to wound" can slice up the ashen core. Unfortunately I'm not sure which model in Rez would really bring the sort of ranged damage you want to take A&D itself down, but Valedictorian, Rogue Necromancy, Izamu, Punk Zombies should be serious threats. The Student of Steel and Student of Sinew bring flips against undead or constructs on a crow and one ignores armor, one ignores hard to wound. There's a decent chance of facing at least one construct or undead model in an outcasts crew and plenty of chances to see hard to wound or armor, so these can be great choices for a really hard to remove melee guy who can shut down triggers and in sinews case will beat down Killjoy as easily as A&D if you can get him past the horror duel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacks85 Posted July 14, 2016 Report Share Posted July 14, 2016 I wouldn't focus on killing him...or beating outcast beaters with beaters. I think you just can't with resser. Play the game different by luring A&D into a flesh construct or something quite Woundy that will keep it busy for 2 turns...and it's a win for you. Play the scheme game that is almost impossible to contest for outcast and you will be happily winning the game Or focus on summoning...giving models and models to eat to their beaters. That is the worst thing happened to me while playing outcast 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godswearhats Posted July 17, 2016 Report Share Posted July 17, 2016 Bete Noir or Yin. Bete is hard to fully eliminate because of her ability to bury herself. She also can paralyze big beaters. Yin can tie most things up, with Ml 6 and wicked, and the negative flips to all attack and damage she's a bit of a tar pit. However, min damage 3 models still get her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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