Shifting Loyalties Cards Should Be Made Available

[Math Mathonwy]

16 minutes ago, Breng77 said:

No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use those models or even play the game at all.

Damn! My Henchman is totally doing it wrong, then...

[Myyrä]

2 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Damn! My Henchman is totally doing it wrong, then...

By forcing you or not forcing you?

[Ludvig]

7 minutes ago, Myyrä said:

By forcing you or not forcing you?

I think he means the gun to his head part?  

[SpiralngCadavr]

58 minutes ago, Breng77 said:

Fact:no one is forcing you to play with the shifting loyalties models at all.  You choose to do so.  No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use those models or even play the game at all.  Now if you want to you will need to use proxies and printed cards.

(...)

Fact:It does cost Wyrd sales, I can easily proxy say 5 miniatures out of the Wyrd multiparty kits, which would cost less than buying other boxes to get those same minis.

Facts(!): Wyrd isn't a charity, and they got our money when we bought models and they're a luxury business that runs on people with disposable income liking them and/or what they make. No one's holding a gun to their collective heads, forcing them to make a game, change a rules set that in most situations invalidates the older set, or even try to retain any customers.

Hyperbole isn't really a good way to make arguments, and the relationship between customer and business is one that's generally good to maintain, regardless of whether it's over something explicit, implicit, or just plain requested and reasonably practical to implement.

[Breng77]

I never said that it wasn't but saying someone is forced to do anything is the hyperbole.  Like most things you have a choice to play or not play the game based on the decisions the company makes.  If the not having print on demand or arsenal packs is a make or break for a customer than it is, changing editions was for many.  People have the ability to still play the older rules if they have enough people that wish to do so.  If enough time people decide not to buy because of the relationship with Wyrd it will cost them,. I agree that it is an important relationship to nurture, but it is a line companies walk between maximizing profit, and doing everything customers want.  There are plenty of things I would like to see differently (including having arsenal packs for all new models), but I understand why they aren't done that way.  Many claim that having cards available is reasonably practical, maybe it is less so than we see if they want to maintain their profits.  

[Dirial]

I don't care either way. Print on demand is way too expensive and impractical to get over here....

That said, I'm genuinely surprised that people came in here to argue against making them available. I mean sure, if Wyrd did that, that would make sense. At least I hope that they base their business decisions on some logical arguments. But without any inside information, why would anybody argue against the OP's opinion that it would be good to have PoD cards? For argument's sake?

*baffled*

[lusciousmccabe]

12 hours ago, Dirial said:

I don't care either way. Print on demand is way too expensive and impractical to get over here....

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised to see that my order went from 19.50 to 23.50 with shipping, reckoning 4 euro was pretty good for a transatlantic rate. Then I realised the shipping itself was 23.50 and closed the page never to return. 

[Absolution Black]

You need to make friends with people in the states! 

[Math Mathonwy]

20 hours ago, Dirial said:

I don't care either way. Print on demand is way too expensive and impractical to get over here...

 

7 hours ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised to see that my order went from 19.50 to 23.50 with shipping, reckoning 4 euro was pretty good for a transatlantic rate. Then I realised the shipping itself was 23.50 and closed the page never to return. 

Don't take the (really cheap) card box and the shipping cost goes way, way down (to something like four dollars). They are perfectly affordable.

[lusciousmccabe]

Don't think that's an option if you want to get an arsenal box (which at the moment is the only way of getting any specific upgrades). 

[Math Mathonwy]

31 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Don't think that's an option if you want to get an arsenal box (which at the moment is the only way of getting any specific upgrades). 

There's two buttons (at least for me): add deck to cart and add deck to cart with deck box. Then there's also a small check box that you can tick to add the one-dollar deck box. Don't tick it. I just tested and managed to add an arsenal box without the deck box.

[lusciousmccabe]

Tried it there and shipping gets cheaper on the arsenal box (although still more expensive on the actual item), but goes right back to 23.50 when a few other bits and bobs I want are added in. Looks like they only have set package sizes so once you go over a particular volume there's a big jump in shipping.

[Math Mathonwy]

11 hours ago, lusciousmccabe said:

Tried it there and shipping gets cheaper on the arsenal box (although still more expensive on the actual item), but goes right back to 23.50 when a few other bits and bobs I want are added in. Looks like they only have set package sizes so once you go over a particular volume there's a big jump in shipping.

Ah, true, it does get really high once you get over some limit. That's unfortunate.

[koronuslight]

On 4/4/2016 at 2:17 AM, Math Mathonwy said:

Ah, true, it does get really high once you get over some limit. That's unfortunate.

"Small Padded Envelope" is the limit on international shipping - I should know, I have mailed several international people copies of cards I had from the Arsenal decks already. Didn't even charge postage - I am a nice guy. 

The bracket is $6 > $23 > $64 > $85 to continental Europe for the most part. If it doesn't fit in a padded 6 x 9, at less than 1/4" thick, then you're hosed.