Pandora help.

[goth]

I don't think anybody's mentioned this in this thread or the locked rules discussion version of this thread, but the way I see it:

Quote

Flight: This model is immune to falling damage and may ignore any terrain or models while moving.

and MAY ignore any terrain or models while moving.  May being the operative word, I figure that if this WERE to apply to pushes, it would be up to the model's controller whether or not flight applies.  It's been mentioned that some pushes are a model hitting another model hard enough to cause displacement, etc, but Zoraida's "repulsive" push is more like models running in fear - in which case, after seeing what can not be unseen, a real NSFL "kill it with fire" sight like Zoraida's teeth, you'd better bet I'd fly over a fence to escape if I had wings.

[Kirby]

Haha, certainly true for a real life scenario, but the rules are the rules and no Flight during a Push.  That said, Flight is still very helpful for Pandora like D_Acolyte said.  With her Walk of 4, every little bit of movement matters.  She can't really afford to lose movement to walk around another model, a wall, or get her movement reduced by half due to severe terrain.  And of course the card draw is always nice too!

[D_acolyte]

I actually rarely use it for the card draw. It is handy but I rather use stones for prevention.

After one game I thought of giving her Pack because she kept drawing the black joker to incite terror tots, it was so bad my opponent and I started joking about it.

[Mr Janje]

I prefer the good ol' Fears Given Form, The Box Opens and Aether Connection!

[El_Commi]

On 04/04/2016 at 9:21 PM, Kirby said:

We were discussing D_Acolyte's earlier statement:

On Wings of Darkness is an upgrade that gives a Neverborn Master the Flight ability.  This lets a model ignore terrain and intervening models during movement.  However, as noted earlier, pushes are not movement as far as that is concerned.  If she is surrounded and has the Flight upgrade, she needs to spend a Wk action or be Lured to get out.  She cannot be Pushed out.  This is important because her Fading Memory allows her to push 4" if she succeeds on an opposed Wp duel.  Normally that allows her to push away if the opponent misses an attack with her, but if she is surrounded she cannot push through other models even with Flight.

That clarifies a lot!

[lusciousmccabe]

5 hours ago, Kirby said:

She can't really afford to lose movement to walk around another model, a wall, or get her movement reduced by half due to severe terrain.  And of course the card draw is always nice too!

I could also see it opening up some interesting charge lanes for her as well.

[Kirby]

48 minutes ago, lusciousmccabe said:

I could also see it opening up some interesting charge lanes for her as well.

Absolutely!  Just keep in mind that unlike Lilith she does need line of sight to declare the charge, so she cannot target models that are blocked by other models or terrain.  Lilith, on the other hand, especially combined with her (0) Sudden Darkness, is perfectly happy to charge someone on the other side of a building!

[El_Commi]

So, had my first game today against Yan Lo.
Ran with

Pandora, Fugue State, THe Box Opens (I don't have Fears given form )
Poltergeist
Candy, (Depression, Best Behaviour)
Baby Kade
3 Sorrows.
Scion of Black Blood. (To use up the last points)

I wasn't quite sure what to do,so spent most of the game trying to work out how she plays and didn't focus on schemes. We had Turf War, and I took Breakthrough and Protect Territory.

I lost the flip for initive every round so had to blow ss on it in later rounds.  My poltergeist dropped in round 1. He's a lot softer than I imagined   I ran Candy forwards and buried her, thinking I could unbury her in the opponents half... (noob mistake!).

Nothing much happened beyond moving my sorrows and Pandora.

Fast forward to later, I got Pandora in the middle with 3 sorrows with a few of my opponents models. Inflict was insane, it just burnt through his hand and he was really reluctant to attack Pandora. But he took out the sorrows one by one.

The scion took out his scheme runner as Baby Kade finished off a model he used to score VP whilst 2" of scheme marker denying him 2 points.

Candy got stuck fighting a giant turtle (I kept dropping it to 1 wound, but it got healed up very fast -.-)

In the end I lost, but it was a really fun game and I feel I learned a lot, I've a greater appreciation for how she works which should make future games a lot easier!  I got out activated by a sizable margin in mid game. So I think I need to pick up a few models that have lower point costs to offset that. My opponent suggested the Depleated?

All in all, I'm very pleased. I can't wait for a few more games now!

 

Coincidentally, I'm waiting for Widow Weaver (I can just see how she's going to work with Pandora! That is going to be filthy lol), Primordial Magic, and a Doppleganger coming in the post.
I've ear marked some Beckoners, and of course, Teddy(!) for a future purchase.

I'm just not quite sure how to play the Doppleganger, I guess I'll just experiment with her

 

 

 

[Sybarite]

I would recommend lilitu instead of beckoners. As for cheap models, I like a tot, depleted and/or mysterious effigy. I tend to use two of those. Or one and an insidious madness. Madnesses are great btw!

[El_Commi]

More models I don't have yet >.<

 

The effigy doesn't seem that great. But those Insidious Madness' look awesome to work with Pandora! (on the list they go!)
Lilitu seems interesting. So its a maybe, I fancy the Beckoners because they seem to fit in with Lynch.. whom I already have. Although, I do  have the Wyrd Female Multipose models... so I could maybe convert something for them.. (What're the rules on conversions/proxys?)

The tots seem like they should definitly be added to the list, but I'm not sure buying them seperatly is worth it, over getting the Lilith crewbox, and I'd  no plans to get another master just yet =/

But yeah.. Madnesses are definitly on the list now, I can see running two of those, some sorrows, a widow weaver and Pandora just being ridiculous together.

[Sybarite]

The effigy can help Pandora with survivability. With its buff she pushes away if the opponent misses AND if she gets hit. That way you can be more aggressive. Especially in combination with its accomplice and the doppelganger's ability to let you cheat initiative and Pandora's incites. You get some crazy control and can do some rather crazy attacks. Cause you can mess with their activation order, cheat initiative and Pandora just pushes away from harm.

 

Also df6 armor 1, hard to kill models with 4 wounds for 4ss are generally worth it. (effigy)

[El_Commi]

My one experience of Pandora so far seemed to suggets people are afraid of hitting Pandora.. but I guess  I can see the use for it.

In other news, I've almost finished my Candy

[Sybarite]

Well terrifying is good, but it's not always enough, some ignore it and some things can tear some big holes in Pandora.

Nice candy!

[-Loki-]

I've been learning Pandora as well in a rapid growth league. Some thoughts which may be helpful to @El_Commi

My next purchase is Insidious Madnesses. I will likely still run a Sorrow, maybe two depending on schemes, but I ran an Insidious Mandess that I borrowed in place of one for a game and it made an enormous difference. A 12" ranged attack that reduces WP is a huge boon. I'd recommend adding them to your next list of purchases.

Absolutely get a Teddy. Sometimes you just want to punch things in the face rather than try to get WP duels off, and Teddy synergises nicely with Baby Kade. It essentially gives Kade 3AP worth of Walks for 2AP, so if Teddy is going where Kade wants to be anyway, it's a nice way to get him there. Also, Terrifying. As said, it's not always enough, but 13 is a decently high enough duel that people might need to cheat to not Paralyze themselves, and wasting opponents cards is always good.

You might get more mileage out of it, but I've drop the Poltergeist. It just doesn't do enough. I've found that dropping those 5pts opened up a lot more options. Granted I don't have a Primordial Magic.

The Doppleganger is great if you've got something she can copy attacks from. If you don't (like I didn't early in the league) she can find herself without much to do. She makes an effective scheme runner in smaller games though since you can force negative flips to enemies in melee or ranged.

Above all, buy yourself the Generalist Upgrade Deck if only for Fears Given Form. When you get Pandora stuck in, it can do some nasty damage your opponent doesn't expect.

[El_Commi]

Thanks for that!
I'm trying to encourage a few friends to play more games in the hope they'll get hooked. As it stands my games are sporadic at bets.
For the most part your comments echo what I was thinking.
I love the doppleganger, I think its a gorgeous model. I'm just not sure how to use her.. time enough for that I  guess. (She' still in the post!)

Teddy and Madness are on the list along with the deck, I just need to make sure I havetime to get it all painted for June

I still need some cheap SS models to bulk out with tho, I guess dropping the Poltergeist helps with that by freeing up some points.  I am tempted to try convert some stuff using the Wyrd multipose females, (mainly the beckoners.. but not sure on Wyrd rules for those)

 

[thebarbalag]

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 5:32 PM, Joel said:

sorrows: basically these guys are perfect for setting up convict labour bluffing, if it is a bluff, on turn 1 you walk a model to a position where their back edge is 8" in from of the sorrow - on its activation, the sorrow used is movement trick to place on the far side of it - gaining another couple of inches and drops a scheme marker in a scoring position. You do this while doing what you do with these models on turn 1 anyway.

poltergeist: is a great anti-scheme runner who can back up anyone who forces multiple wp duels in an area - coppelius and Nekima for example. Paralysing 4+ enemy models wins you games.

Also, Sorrows can get you Public Demonstration pretty easily, and with the Emissary's Conflux of Sorrow Perfect Mimicry ability, can take Misery from the Sorrows, or Distraction from the Poltergeist, for added offense/defense (seriously, Distraction from two sources may be broken it's so evil) or, Martyr from Iggy to protect your Woes (with the added bonus of its inbuilt healing abilities, so, Pandora is relying less on Candy).

[Sybarite]

With demonstration why not take madnesses instead though? 

[Sybarite]

Although yeah sorrows probably got a bit stronger in gg16 which I like.