What do you fit into a Colette list?

[Fog]

So I've finally assembled Colette, having been sitting on the box since GenCon, and I've been having a ton of fun playing her in a variety of games for a variety of strategies.  I've noticed one small issue, and one big issue.  Hopefully some folks can share some ideas.

Firstly, my small problem:  by the end of turn 3 or 4, I've burnt out my whole team.  I'm usually down to Colette, a monkey, and maybe Lola.  I feel like it's trivially easy for my opponent to take my models off the board.  I'm pretty sure that's me playing overly aggressively, and I can definitely dial things back.  

My second problem is that I want to take everything in my team but I'm still limited to the same 50ss any other master is.  When I start thinking about list building I quickly find myself at 40ss spent with 4 models on the board.  Yikes.  What do I cut?  Do I just play with those 4 models?  Do I trade out for some more minions?  It's a little overwhelming, as she's so good with so many models.  I'm having trouble making the cut.

[Ludvig]

The answer to this question depends so much on the strat and schemes but four models sounds a bit too little for anyone. Which are the four? When in a similar position I usually randomize a couple of scheme pools and build lists with plenty of time as an exercise in taking models for specific jobs. Maybe you really don't need that many schemers in a certain pool. In another you might do very well with few beatsticks, if any.

If you find yourself always taking something I would advice you to try a few games forcing yourself to play without it and see which model can replace the role in that pool.

[Fog]

The models I want to put in are Hank, Cassandra and the Coryphee (duet).  They're all so crazy that it's a struggle to drop one.

The games I've played so far have been Colette, Cassandra, Coryphee x2, Performer x2, Dove x1, Mannequin x1, with a variety of upgrades.  I get all my points scored without too much trouble early game, but then I start to stall out, get murdered, and have to struggle to keep my points up.  I haven't lost with her yet, but I'm used to tap dancing my way through matches with Ramos and by most accounts, Colette is better than Ramos.  

She's not doing terribly, though.  I feel like even when I'm down to Colette and (anything else) I still have enough tricks to stop my opponents from doing anything too meaningful.  It reminds me of the "good ol' days" of 1st edition when I would end the game with Colette, invincible, surrounded by enemy models in their deployment zone.  That said, I don't feel like that's how she 'should' be played. 

[Sybarite]

I tend to use langston, cassandra, acolytes, joss, silent one, a performer (sometimes two), sometimes mech rider. And summon doves. Never use mannequins. Always taking duet and langston and cassandra is a mistake. Adjust to strats and schemes.

[Fog]

So what I'm hearing is an Elite squad is definitely the way to go, just not four model elite.

Never using a Mannequin seems odd.  I figure that their scheme tossing ability would be useful for things like plant explosive.  Silent one is a neat concept too.  

[orkdork]

Colette with nothing to support is very weak, so timing things to ensure you still have something good to prompt is important. Good news is that you only need one good prompt target, generally.

Personally, I like to try to make turn one a safe turn. Use Colette's ap for doves, the rest for markers, and maybe get some slow out with your acolytes (hard to resist throwing them out, but it is important to keep them up for turns 2&3). on turn 2, you may well be looking at 2-3 doves, a mech rider, and a metal gamin all ready to out activate. If you can get your acolytes to go late in the turn, they will do lots of work on turn 2.

You will ill also be in a great position to send out scheme runners with disappearing act to start turn 2 scoring.

Edited October 9, 2015 by orkdork

[Sordid Strumpet]

I use the Mechanical Rider - every time. With her summoned metal gamin able to drop scheme markers as zero action within 8" of Colette and then go defensive (2) without having to discard a card, they become fantastic scheme runners, getting markers all over the board as needed or making it virtually impossible to discard them by just sitting next to them and not letting anyone kill them. Great for protect territory as well.

And then the Mechanical Rider can drop scheme markers as needed for breakthrough teleportation shenanigans (or scheme placement via trap doors). As beat sticks Coryphee are all you'll ever need, really.

I also use a performer and a Mannequin to get scheme markers near enemies I'm about to use seduce on to put them on double negative twists just before the Coryphee (or Duet) hits them.

The rest of the crew really depends on the scheme pool, but a December Acolyte (and a silent one for ice mirror and prompt shenanigans) are a great addition.

Oh, and of course I never leave home without Cassandra because she's a great complementary beatstick who can take on stuff that would rip through Coryphees too quickly.

[Ludvig]

Haha! I'm having a really hard time sympathizing to be honest, you might want to come back if you ever lose a game

Your setup seems good for Colette. You will probably just need to play a little more conservatively if you want to survive with more models.

Being done with all your schemes t2 or 3 and the not having enough AP to catch up is what makes Colette good in my opinion. It doesn't hurt that she can prompt something to completely eradicate the enemy crew half the time while still getting schemes done.

I don't know where you heard Ramos was supposed to be worse, he is also considered very strong. Colette is often brought up in relation to other obey-type masters while Ramos has to compete with summoners.

[Fog]

To be fair, after last might' tournament,I have played her a total of six times, with every game against newer players locally, and they've all been fairly close.  I haven't dropped her into any of our competitive players yet, but I'm getting ready to soon. 

 

Hanging back lack a little the first turn feels like it's been helping. I still had to get aggressive as hell to deal with perdita last night but she skews things anyway. If it wasn't that players fifth game ever I don't think I would have liked my chances.

[Sybarite]

So what I'm hearing is an Elite squad is definitely the way to go, just not four model elite.

Never using a Mannequin seems odd.  I figure that their scheme tossing ability would be useful for things like plant explosive.  Silent one is a neat concept too.  

Practiced production and doves is what I usually use to do marker schemes outside of plant explosives. Mannequins don't really impress me. They're a very niche model.

[Sordid Strumpet]

 

So what I'm hearing is an Elite squad is definitely the way to go, just not four model elite.

Never using a Mannequin seems odd.  I figure that their scheme tossing ability would be useful for things like plant explosive.  Silent one is a neat concept too.  

Practiced production and doves is what I usually use to do marker schemes outside of plant explosives. Mannequins don't really impress me. They're a very niche model.

Are they, though? I like the 6" scheme placement very much. Lets you get the marker in exactly the right spot for the Performers seduction ability (and the slow or on attack flips can be a great understudy target at times). Also useful for the Duets Orchestral Crescendo ability. Combined with the ability to push 4" after damaging a target, you can make your opponent slow, hit them with the duet and then use the inbuilt push to get out of dodge and with slow, your opponent can't actually do anything against you afterwards. 

Given that you can summon them with a Mechanical Rider and they can do their (1) tactical action straight away, I think they're hugely useful especially if summoned early. And with armour 3 they'll be about as hard to take out as a Metal Gamin in most cases. I probably wouldn't hire them though. 

[Bengt]

 

Given that you can summon them with a Mechanical Rider and they can do their (1) tactical action straight away, I think they're hugely useful especially if summoned early. And with armour 3 they'll be about as hard to take out as a Metal Gamin in most cases. I probably wouldn't hire them though. 

After summoning they are Df 4 with 1 Wd, compared to a Metal Gamin's Df 5/6 with 2 Wds and Htk; they are significantly easier to kill as the armour does nothing.

[Sybarite]

They arent worth 4ss to get a scheme marker for a 5ss performer. And I mainly use the performer's action on enemy scheme markers. 4ss in an insignificant model can be worth it, but it is almost always a niche model. And yeah they are rarely gonna be better as a mech rider summon than the metal gamins.

Definitely worth it for plant explosives and spring the trap. Other than that? Not the way I see it. Then again, I might be missing something.

[Rurouni Benshin]

I've played Colette with just her box crew, plus the Coryphee Duet, and I've had great success with them.  Having a Mannequin is really good for placing Scheme Markers far away on Turn 1, and it helps being able to mass drop them in various locations for Colette to take advantage of later.  While 2 might not be necessary, I would still recommend using at least 1.  Mechanical Rider is strong and durable, especially towards the end game.

If I ever play her with another model though, I'll chime back in and talk about my experiences with it.

[Breng77]

I find Mannequins mostly useful in schemes like plant explosives as throwing a marker 6" is basically a guarantee for that scheme.  Mech rider can also do this at times but is not as reliable.  But he could spawn one for the throw.

[Sordid Strumpet]

 

Given that you can summon them with a Mechanical Rider and they can do their (1) tactical action straight away, I think they're hugely useful especially if summoned early. And with armour 3 they'll be about as hard to take out as a Metal Gamin in most cases. I probably wouldn't hire them though. 

After summoning they are Df 4 with 1 Wd, compared to a Metal Gamin's Df 5/6 with 2 Wds and Htk; they are significantly easier to kill as the armour does nothing.

D'oh (insert Homer Simpson face). For some reason I thought they were 4 wound models. 

So maybe better of hiring them, and then those 4 soul stones are a bit pricey. But hey, I'll still play them to see how well they do when I'm not theory-fauxing. 

[surly]

Having played them a few times I have to agree that Mannequins are pretty much niche models.

In Plant Explosives and Spring the Trap I pretty much always prefer a Union Miner if I want to bring a dedicated model at all. He's pretty cool in combination with Colette's Promt to push him 3" around.

But even then, those Schemes are really super easy for almost any Colette crew, so I'm not sure I'd bring them either.

 

I do still leave them in my box, just in case Mech Rider wants to summon them one day (and tbh - in the last ~ 40 games that situation didn't occur even once. I guess actually never so far, but can't remember further ). Buying them for 4 SS in my initial crew? Probably never ... but on the other hand I don't really like paying for Metal Gamin either when you get them for free anyway

[Clockwork_Fish]

Practiced production and doves is what I usually use to do marker schemes outside of plant explosives. Mannequins don't really impress me. They're a very niche model.

Angelica makes it into most of my Colette lists just for carrying Practiced Production.  Everything else in her toolbox is just gravy.

[Sordid Strumpet]

You know what Mannequins can be fun for? Setting up some serious no-go zones with willie where no matter where you walk, things will explode.

 

And if you're being road blocked somewhere, getting a performer in there and placing scheme markers 6" behind enemy lines can be great for points, teleporting in and so forth. I can definitely see some uses for them. For example:

get two scheme markers in there, blow one up for seduction and give the targerto defense. Teleport in Cassandra or a Coryphee with Colette, prompt to smack the target, promp to whack them again, understudy to prompt yourself to do it again. Activate, smack again. Use dance partner to get out of there. 

OR give people double negative on WP duels, use Willie to set charges, the lure enemy models around within 8" of willie and cause tons of 'splosions. 

All that because you're able to put scheme markers places you're not supposed to.

[Jordon]

I actually think the mannequins are very effective melee pieces for their cost. Having a Ca5 targeting WP means their ignoring incorporeal and most DF triggers. They have a 2" range and two awesome triggers, one of which is built in. I can't think of many other 4ss models that are as effective in combat as the mannequins are.

[kaintxu]

On 18 October 2015 at 2:19 AM, Sordid Strumpet said:

You know what Mannequins can be fun for? Setting up some serious no-go zones with willie where no matter where you walk, things will explode.

 

And if you're being road blocked somewhere, getting a performer in there and placing scheme markers 6" behind enemy lines can be great for points, teleporting in and so forth. I can definitely see some uses for them. For example:

get two scheme markers in there, blow one up for seduction and give the targerto defense. Teleport in Cassandra or a Coryphee with Colette, prompt to smack the target, promp to whack them again, understudy to prompt yourself to do it again. Activate, smack again. Use dance partner to get out of there. 

OR give people double negative on WP duels, use Willie to set charges, the lure enemy models around within 8" of willie and cause tons of 'splosions. 

All that because you're able to put scheme markers places you're not supposed to.

For all this to happen Colette and Casandra would have to be very close, while Colette has great survivability, I usually try and keep her a bit further away of the enemy bulk

[mythicFOX]

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Thread's coming up to three months dead, and we've a similar one running right now. So I'll close this to save confusion.

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