Ramos + Rasputina OR Colette?

[RustAndTheCity]

Hello everyone,

I'm a Malifaux noob. I've played a demo game and read the rules. Only a few people play locally. Malifaux is a secondary game for me so I would like to carefully plan my builds and purchases to maximize the utility of the models I buy. For that reason, I'd really love some advice on expanding to a second master. I currently have the Ramos box set and I'm planning on adding more arachnids, an electrical creation, and the mechanical rider. After that, I am trying to decide between adding Rasputina or Collette as a second master. I like how the models look for both Collette and Rasputina. I'd like models that are reasonably competitive and stay within the themes of each master. Which of Rasputina or Collette best compensates for Ramos' weaknesses? Which had more model overlap? Here is my thinking so far:

Wave 1:

Ramos box set

Wave 2:

Electric creation, arachnid swarm box (magnetized for 9 + 2 swarms), mechanical rider.

Wave 3:

Collette or Rasputina + 1 additional box (Coryphee or Acolytes)

 

I'd love your thoughts on the best way to build for both masters.

[frostwolf428]

Welcome to the union I've been playing for close to a month and I started with Ramos and he's AWESOME!

My friend that got me into the game gave me Raspy (he tried her and did not really like her and switched to those filthy Ressers ), I like her and think she's a fun change of pace from Ramos and the long rang bombardment is fun. As is stands right now I've not played her too much I've been focusing on Ramos I figured I'd play at least 10 games with only him before I start really playing with other masters. Schemes and Stone has a good pod cast about Raspy that may help too. 

A unit i peroxided in with Ramos was The Captain and I loved him, sadly he's only in Toni Ironsides box

Also check out the Metal Gamins, some people on the forums here pointed them out to me and they are SUPER tanky with Ramos and great for holding areas

Sadly i don't know much about Collette so I look forward to what people have to say about her here

 

[mythicFOX]

Welcome to Malifaux!

Go for Colette, the showgirls give you some great models you'll want to drop into other crews. Cassandra's the best dedicated scheme runner in the game, and Performers are great utility in a number of builds. Colette gets on very well prompting the hard hitters in Ramos box, so they combine and complement each other really well. 

The Rasputina box needs things like the Blessed and SnowStorm to shine, and doesn't have as much synergy with the Ramos box as the Colette Box does. The Rider is one of the best models in the game, but from your limited model pool (no Metal Gamin) you'll get more mileage from the Colette box than from the Rider to start with, so I'd be tempted to get the Colette Box before the Mech Rider. 

I'd consider trying to get Johan or Arcane Effigy into the mix earlier. Either swapping them for the Mech Rider in wave two, or the additional purchase in wave three.  Condition removal is very important, especially as it's one of Ramos' key weaknesses. 

Edited September 21, 2015 by mythicFOX

[Bengt]

You should consider Acolytes regardless of which second Master you get, they are awesome with anyone.

[RustAndTheCity]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Is Johan a good addition for a Collette crew as well? Johan would be quicker to paint and get on the table than mech rider too.

 

Bengt-they look so cool I would like to paint them anyways.

I've got my starting box all assembled. I'll post a thread up in the miniature showcase forum in the next week or so.

 

[Bengt]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Is Johan a good addition for a Collette crew as well? Johan would be quicker to paint and get on the table than mech rider too.

 

Bengt-they look so cool I would like to paint them anyways.

I've got my starting box all assembled. I'll post a thread up in the miniature showcase forum in the next week or so.

 

Johan is a good model, he really shines when he got some M&SU backup though, doesn't have to be a lot of them, just a couple that he can hang around. So he depends more on the rest of the crew than on the Master.

[FertileSpade]

Welcome to Malifaux!

Go for Colette, the showgirls give you some great models you'll want to drop into other crews. Cassandra's the best dedicated scheme runner in the game, and Performers are great utility in a number of builds. Colette gets on very well prompting the hard hitters in Ramos box, so they combine and complement each other really well. 

The Rasputina box needs things like the Blessed and SnowStorm to shine, and doesn't have as much synergy with the Ramos box as the Colette Box does. The Rider is one of the best models in the game, but from your limited model pool (no Metal Gamin) you'll get more mileage from the Colette box than from the Rider to start with, so I'd be tempted to get the Colette Box before the Mech Rider. 

I'd consider trying to get Johan or Arcane Effigy into the mix earlier. Either swapping them for the Mech Rider in wave two, or the additional purchase in wave three.  Condition removal is very important, especially as it's one of Ramos' key weaknesses. 

Johan has fantastic synergy with the Ramos box. I would definitely recommend him as well. Mythic Fox is spot on about metal gamin as well. It is another key model for Ramos' crew and the Mechanical Rider can summon them. I really enjoy Rasputina but would have to agree Colette should be the next box set you get from a competitive viewpoint. We're still waiting on a couple key models to be released for the Children of December  (Blessed of December, Snowstorm, Silent Ones, and I can't wait for the Ice Dancer). Coryphee should be on your short list of models to add and can work with Ramos as well as Colette due to the construct designator.

Edited September 26, 2015 by FertileSpade

[FertileSpade]

another thing i thought of is the performers' manipulative 13 can work well with Howard's decapitate to drain cards from your opponent's hand.

[Fog]

To seCond everyone else in the thread, Ramos and Colette are the two top masters in our faction. They share a lot of toys and they're bound to give headaches to anyone you play.

Johan is amazing and is easy to fit anywhere. The rider is absurdly good but incredibly pricey. You can't always get her in there.

[RustAndTheCity]

Thanks for the replies!

 

Electric creation; essential or luxury? 

I'll definitely add 6 spiders and Johan next. Is the electric creation a good add (turn 1 scrap) or would I be better off leaving that until later?

[admiralvorkraft]

Electrical Creation is great for summoning, but for turn one scrap you want the Mobile Toolkit.

[Fog]

I disagree with the rest of the world on the electrical creation/mobile tool kit argument.

Most folks say hire a tool kit, have it walk up, then have joss charge it for two scrap first turn.  It gets Joss an extra inch upfield and you get two scrap.

I like hiring the creation instead.  Here's the pros and cons:

-Extra SS

-Joss only moves 5" instead of 6"

+Joss doesn't need to stand next to the toolkit.  It allows for a greater variety of positioning.

+You have the option of magnetizing Ramos to the creation to kill it.  It only generates 1 scrap but it gives you an extra source of movement first turn  I don't always use it like this but having the option helps, in my humble opinion.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Fog
Correction

[admiralvorkraft]

I think you meant "hire the Creation."

Of course there are two sides to the debate. I'm looking for stones anywhere I can find them with Ramos because I want to guarantee my tomes.

[Sackville]

The Toolkit doesn't get Joss an extra inch upfield, it actually slows him down by 4". That's the Toolkit's downside, you need to spend an AP somewhere to kill it and even if you charge it with Joss that's 2 AP for 6" of movement that could've been spent double walking for up to 10" instead. On the other hand, it's only 3ss and killing it with Joss nets you an additional scrap to use in the second turn.

With the Electric Creation Ramos can kill it entirely with his own magnetism action (after it activates). This doesn't slow anything down and even gives Ramos a free push, but you only get one scrap counter so you need to start magnetizing or detonating your own spiders next turn if you didn't lose a construct or find something to kill with Joss (of course, you can always march a spider up first and then charge it with Joss if he hasn't managed to get engaged yet.)

Which one you use basically depends on how fast you think things are going to play out. If 4" on Joss and 6" on Ramos isn't going to be super important then save yourself a stone and bring the Toolkit. On the other hand, if you want all the extra movement you can get and you think scrap will start naturally occurring by turn two then bring the Creation.

[Fog]

Fixed the error, thanks admiral.

The inch of movement is comparing Joss charging the toolkit versus walking once and shooting the creation. He loses an inch in that comparison, and either way you're generating two scrap.

If you bring the creation, though, and need to play particularly aggressive, you can have him walk twice and use magnetism to get Ramos upfield faster. 

It's mathematically more sound to take the toolkit, but I find I make the magnetism choice in one in five games. Is it worth that stone? Probably not, but I enjoy options

[mythicFOX]

There are other times when the EC is better. 

If your opponent can block LOS or remove scrap markers then making the scrap in the same activation as summoning the spiders can be important. I've won a few games against Ramos where I've removed their scrap between Joss and Ramos' activations.

Keep in mind as well that the EC is Wp10, so if your playing against Ressers it's harder to lure across the table away from Ramos than the Toolkit.

It's all fairly minor but with keeping in mind options wise. 

 

[admiralvorkraft]

Agreed on all points, and Powered by Flame makes ecs - summoned or hired - much more impressive.

It's also nice to sometimes keep the toolkit hanging around to do things.

[RustAndTheCity]

As a new player though, to get the mobile toolkit I would have to buy and find the older metal model and get the correct Arcanist m2e upgrade deck. If I get a scrap generator, it will be the electric creation for now. I prefer plastic models and it comes with the necessary card.

It's more a question of whether the electric creation is useful enough that it should be my third additional model or not.

[admiralvorkraft]

I would say that you need at least one of the Electrical Creation or the Mobile Toolkit.

 

However, the best investment you can make in the game is to get the rulebooks - having a reference for every model in the game is huge, both competitively, and for proxying before purchasing.

[Adran]

In all honesty, you can use a spider as your initial source of scrap. Its more expensive than the tool kit, and tougher to kill than the Creation, but if you were charging with Joss, he ought to easily kill it in 2 hits. (or a shot, and then a magnitism from Ramos)

So if you are running at your best, you are possibly a soulstone or an AP down on where you would have been, but you haven't had to buy any new models. 

 

 

[Spike0738]

Sorry to kinda steal the thread here, but what is a good group of models to have for a Ramos squad?? I currently just starting playing and play Kaeris, but I want to expand on the faction a little for tournament play. 

As of right now I have,... Kaeris, Firestarter, Gun Smiths, Fire Gamins, Metal Gamins, Rail Golem, Johan and thats it... I was gonna pick up the Ramos starting bundle, because he's another good Master for Arcanists, but what else? I saw everyone talking about stronger models and such in arcanists, and I wanted to buzz in.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Spike0738

[JoeJones]

For Ramos, after getting his M&SU box, you need Metal Gamin, Johan, and maybe an Electrical Creation and/or another box or so of Steam Arachnids. Maybe the Mechanical Rider if you don't think Ramos is summoning fast enough. A December Acolyte or two can add a decent amount of shooting also (and can also be useful if you pick up Rasputina as well).

[mythicFOX]

Sorry to kinda steal the thread here, but what is a good group of models to have for a Ramos squad?? I currently just starting playing and play Kaeris, but I want to expand on the faction a little for tournament play. 

As of right now I have,... Kaeris, Firestarter, Gun Smiths, Fire Gamins, Metal Gamins, Rail Golem, Johan and thats it... I was gonna pick up the Ramos starting bundle, because he's another good Master for Arcanists, but what else? I saw everyone talking about stronger models and such in arcanists, and I wanted to buzz in.

From what you've got already, grab an Electric Creation (mostly for easy turn one scrap) and another box of spiders. After that you're all set for the moment.

Joss and Howard bring a lot to a Kaeris crew so you'll see a good bump in her performance as well.

[Spike0738]

Sorry to kinda steal the thread here, but what is a good group of models to have for a Ramos squad?? I currently just starting playing and play Kaeris, but I want to expand on the faction a little for tournament play. 

As of right now I have,... Kaeris, Firestarter, Gun Smiths, Fire Gamins, Metal Gamins, Rail Golem, Johan and thats it... I was gonna pick up the Ramos starting bundle, because he's another good Master for Arcanists, but what else? I saw everyone talking about stronger models and such in arcanists, and I wanted to buzz in.

From what you've got already, grab an Electric Creation (mostly for easy turn one scrap) and another box of spiders. After that you're all set for the moment.

Joss and Howard bring a lot to a Kaeris crew so you'll see a good bump in her performance as well.

Thank you, I appreciate the input. I'm very excited to be starting this game with this faction. Everyone has been extremely helpful.