Obey + defender "relenting"

[orkdork]

Hey all,

 

New player here with a rules question I can't find the answer for (or if my search-fu was weak, feel free to let me know ).

 

It is my understanding that if use my Zoraida to cast "Obey" on an enemy model, that while I control that enemy's action, the enemy model still treats its own crew as friendly and mine as enemies.

 

Thus, if I use that model to attack, can the defender (controlled by the other player) choose to "relent" since it is being attacked by a friendly model? By that I mean the other player can choose to lose and get a tie (and therefore a -2 damage flip), as per these rules (pg. 27, callout box):

 

"Attacking Friendly Models

Models can target other friendly models with Actions. The effects of 

the Action might prohibit the usefulness of this tactic, but it can neverthe-less be done.

Whenever two friendly models are engaged in an Opposed Duel, the 

defending friendly model may choose to lose the duel. Before any cards are 

flipped, the Defending model may choose to relent. When this happens, the 

Attacker flips as normal, and the Defender flips no cards, it is instead assumed 

that the Defender tied the Attacker’s final duel total, without any suits.

The Defender may not declare Triggers when it relents to an Action in 

this way, however the Attacker may still declare Triggers."

 

Seems pretty air-tight RAW to me that they could, but the vets in my group hadn't seen this interpretation. FWIW, they agreed, but it wasn't like "Oh yeah, that's a known one that we old-timers worked out YEARS ago!"

 

Kindly appreciate any answers!

 

Rock on!

-Orkdork, Neverborn Newbie

 

EDITED to clarify which player I think controls the choice to 'relent'

[Creaturefeature]

Seems legit, the obeyed model is still friendly to it's own crew. 

[AoS]

So you obey with Zoraida an enemy, lets call it A, this model A, controled by Zoraida, attacks another enemy model B, and you want B relent from A? 

It's the model B who chooses to relent, and you are not controlling B.

But if your oponent wants to relent I'll go with that he can.

[orkdork]

I mean the other player chooses to relent, not me.

 

I'm seeing this as a weakness of obey, not a strength (it gives my opponent the choice, not me).

[Trample]

You're right, it does give him a choice and it's not a bad one. The relent is then considered a tie, so a double negative flip. That's pretty nice if the model being obeyed has a 2/4/6 track. You're preventing him from cheating and likely only facing 2 damage. Cool. Good find! 

[Dirial]

Seems legit.

[Vidd]

Seems like it's supported by the rules.

 

That said, it feels like it's an oversight that it's not limited to when the player who owns the models is making the action. To my mind, that would be the intention, to make it easier to pull off things against your own models without being screwed over by unluckily high Defense/Willpower flips - not to limit the effectivemness of Obey-style actions.

 

But of course, unless an FAQ says otherwise, that thought is irrelevant.

[Mach_5]

I'm not sure its that big of a deal really; sure you can relent but then you're guaranteed taking damage, and a double negative flip is a better chance of getting the Red Joker.  Personally I'd be more inclined to risk the flip and have the opportunity to cheat the defense as I'd be more likely to be able to put the damage flip at a single negative, or better yet dodge the hit altogether.

[Math Mathonwy]

I'm not sure its that big of a deal really; sure you can relent but then you're guaranteed taking damage, and a double negative flip is a better chance of getting the Red Joker.  Personally I'd be more inclined to risk the flip and have the opportunity to cheat the defense as I'd be more likely to be able to put the damage flip at a single negative, or better yet dodge the hit altogether.

It is a very big deal if the Obeyed attacker has a positive twist to damage since then relenting means that they can't cheat.

[Dirial]

It is a very big deal if the Obeyed attacker has a positive twist to damage since then relenting means that they can't cheat.

 

Especially if you have no chance of beating that Ml 7 with your Df 4 model.

[jonahmaul]

Also not sure on the intent but RAW certainly suggests that this is something that can be done.

[solkan]

"Nice Rail Golem... you think Howard Langston can Decap it in one hit?"

 

I think you mean "Nice Rail Golem.  Want to see me decapitate it with one hand tied behind my back?"  Or "Now just hold still and this won't hurt one bit..." 

 

The last sentence in relenting:

 

The Defender may not declare Triggers when it relents to an Action in this way, however the Attacker may still declare Triggers.

[DrillbossD]

This would have been a great trick when Hamelin was making my Fuhatsu shoot my own guys. 2/5/6 hurts!