Are Trixie/Francois/SlopHaulers AutoIncludes?

[Dumb Luck]

Out of that list, Fran is the only thing that seems auto take to me. Take him with Dirty Cheater (making Reckless free with his zero action and a low card) and he is so handy. Flanking models? Boom. Dead. Beatstick? Boom. Dead. Enemy Master? Take it off. 

 

He is also cheap enough that providing he takes enough of a chunk out of the other guy, I don't mind him dying either.

[Malal]

Fran, point for point one of the best scheme runners in the game, almost as fast as a Silurid but hits like a truck. Makes most my lists where that role is useful.

Trixie, auto-include for me. Love being able to almost guarantee initiative in the crews I play (primarily Wong, Brewie and Ophelia) but might not be as useful doing that for other crews. Gremlin Lure and scheme bombing are always useful.

Slop Haulers, never take them, can see their use in summoning crews but they just don't fit my play style

[Dumb Luck]

Wong and Brewmaster is about the measure of Trixie, generic member of the Gremlin playing community I have never met before. Wong because of his dominance of Turf War and the like, whereas Brewmaster needs her to avoid getting curb stomped every game.

 

She is interesting. I mean, I think I could play games without her but I do have moments where I miss Ill Omens, y'know?

[zFiend]

Slop Haulers, never take them

 

This is a really cool statement.  

[Math Mathonwy]

This is a really cool statement.

Let me quote myself from a different thread a while ago:

 

That's due to Malal's playstyle:

He doesn't do healing.

Still, missing out on making Perdita Df4 means that I pity Malal

[MONSTERNOGGIN]

For Fran, I've had good success with a brick of Ophelia/Fran/Slop Hauler accompanied more often than not by Lenny for toss/damage reduction/built-in ram shenanigans. If Lenny tags along, I'll slap Dirty Cheater on Fran. If not, then he gets Stilts. If I'm facing a blast heavy crew, Merris will hang around to null out the blasts until late game when she blasts off to snag schemes (Hide in the Mud helps keep alive during those long, reckless-augmented runs across the board).

 

You can swap out Old Cranky instead of the Young to add in  on def to bolster Fran and to gain a SS everytime Ophelia and Fran chain activate to erase a model.

 

After that you can toss in Burt and some BG's to act as flankers/scheme runners.

[szendroib]

Tried a game without slop haulers today it was a first. Mistakes were made and I lost to 8-4 but it was a really fun game, tried some things I have read in this topic. The game was turf war against a heavy hitting shenlong crew with 2 snipers, fuhatsu and a samurai for damage (and focus, lots of free focus everywhere :S). I had no choice but to go in because the map was fairly open so I have hired Somer (for now I prefer him more than Ophelia because the 12 range, blast and trigger aura, but it is possible that Ophelia would be the better choice in the long run), 2 totems, Fran (dirty cheater, stilts), Burt (dirty cheater), McTavish, Mancha Roya, Pere Ravage (Teamwork).

I had to tie up Fuhatsu and got him down to 1 hp just for Master Yu to push them from engagement and a fast fuhatsu massacring them loosing a huge part of my team . But the next round Fran came in, one hitting samurai with red joker (14 dmg) and dropping stilts, than charging and finishing the healed up fuhatsu for good. Killing twice the ss of his cost in one activation . For the near future Francisco earned a fix spot in my teams.

 

On the other hand I used Pere the 1st time but he was terribad against the 2 snipers. Fun thing that happened: My skeeter finished off one of the snipers after hard to kill and even flipped the trigger to spawn a new one. Never thought it will happen .

 

My question after some of my recent games: how do gremlins deal with armor 2 other than Wong's glowy? My only answer is derp damage but it needs at least 1 very high card, a trigger and 1 or 2 focus to make sure.

 

I guess my point with this post was to thank you guys for the Francisco tips and for the idea that teams can be succesful without slop haulers . It was quite liberating that I didn't have to bunch up around the slow slop haulers. Also I had a lot of henchman so I used my soulstones for prevention quite often to mitigate the lack of slop hauler.

 

(sorry for the off but we have a lively topic at last and this topic gave me all the ideas for my team)

[Omenbringer]

 

My question after some of my recent games: how do gremlins deal with armor 2 other than Wong's glowy? My only answer is derp damage but it needs at least 1 very high card, a trigger and 1 or 2 focus to make sure.

 

 

 

The method I utilize is volume of shots (from cheaper models), though with the list you have up there your more likely going to use the Dumb Luck trigger. That of course makes the loss of a Slop Hauler's Healing a lot more apparent.

[CannibalBob]

The method I utilize is volume of shots (from cheaper models), though with the list you have up there your more likely going to use the Dumb Luck trigger. That of course makes the loss of a Slop Hauler's Healing a lot more apparent.

 

Yup, there are not many problems that cannot be solved by simply throwing more Bayou gremlins at it.

[Dumb Luck]

Bugs ignore Armour too.

[Math Mathonwy]

My question after some of my recent games: how do gremlins deal with armor 2 other than Wong's glowy? My only answer is derp damage but it needs at least 1 very high card, a trigger and 1 or 2 focus to make sure.

Lightning Bugs ignore Armor (they can also sub for Slop Haulers with their Mask trigger which is conveniently what Somer likes to hand out for his Summoning). Dumb Luck goes past Armor when enough damage is applied. A bazillion attacks for one go past Armor (and you have lots of models and lots of them have access to 3AP). Mancha Roja can instakill (Arm Lock, Pile Driver, Finisher).

Also note that Skeeters are really good at tying up models as are Piglets (with Def stance), Trixie can push models away and Sammy can also Jynx models into uselessness.

[szendroib]

Thanks Math, lot of good things to think about. Also a lot of models I have not used previously without their figures but recently I started to try them with proxies.

[Lamo]

IMO I think auto include is so subjective to play style and master. For example I think Sammy (encouragement on somer is amazing), Trixie, and a slop hauler are more or less required for a Somer List...but I don't think I would take sammy for a Mah list ever. For me the 5 most useful models not including masters would go something like:

 

1) Trixie 

2) Slop Hauler

3) Fancois

4) Roster Rider

5) Lightning Bug 

Honorable mention) Bayou Gremlin 

 

The bottom two haven't been released and thus have not really made a huge splash but on paper are really good. IMO what Makes Fancois so auto include is that he has 10 wounds, three ap, the highest gremlin will power and the fact that gremlin general upgrades are really good(dirty cheater and a decent zero action = win & stilts letting you dodge an attack or some dumb luck damage is awesome). Really in general Reckless is such a strong rule that almost anything with it is very powerful (regardless of whether its for scheme running or killing).

[Whut]

Hey if you all won't mind I have some comments and questions. Specifically I thought of these by reading Lamo's post

 

1) Never thought of using Sammy with Somer to give him bonuses to summoning, bigger hat, and boomer attacks. Really cool trick.

 

2) Why is Trixie good with Somer? If anything, I thought that Somer would be in the minority that doesn't need her since he doesn't really have anything that NEEDS to activate at the top of the turn.

 

3) Would you ever take more than one Rooster Rider? They seem to be useful for some schemes (late turn Distract, Cursed Object, Deliver a Message, etc) and maybe to assassinate some ranged threats (Like Oxfordian mages or Austringers, for example) but they seem like they're doomed to die as soon as they achieve their objective due to how squishy they are. (Although maybe Trixie can fix this as long as you charge at the end of one turn and then retreat and the top of the next turn)

 

4) Lightning bugs. I really want to use them but I just don't see their best use. They are 5 stones (so, cheap but not dirt cheap), with an 8" range. Their attack, though at Ca6 and ignoring armor, only does 2/3/3 damage so it isn't really going to guarantee a kill. After reckless they'll be left with Df5/Wp5/Wd5, which spells certain death. Their attack has a chance to heal enemy models and their leave it to luck action seems like it has no use at all. Do the attack triggers and their other zero action really make them worth their cost? Is it the flexibility that makes them good? Are they better with Somer who can give them + to attack and crows for slow? Basically I'm just asking: how do you use them, where 2 Bayou gremlins, Merris, or similar option wouldn't be better for the cost?

[Omenbringer]

2) Why is Trixie good with Somer? If anything, I thought that Somer would be in the minority that doesn't need her since he doesn't really have anything that NEEDS to activate at the top of the turn.

 

I would agree that Trixiebelle really isn't that great with Som'er, he has so many other better options.

[Whut]

One more: Do Burt Jebsen and Francois serve different purposes? They seem almost exactly the same, but Francois does more damage, takes more damage, and has companion, whereas Burt is slightly harder to use in combos but is more survivable while near a friendly model.

 

I don't want to go through tons of +ram setup with Somer, Skeeters, and Lenny (unless its easier than it seems, but I doubt I want to keep multiple low rams in my hand for the auras, and Lenny can't really keep up with Burt) for Critical Strike, and outside Wong, it seems like the Francois "kill anything" missile is more generally useful than the balanced Burt. Am I missing something?

 

Does Burt make a better Frame for murder target because he has a smaller chance of killing himself?

[szendroib]

Burt serves the same beatstick purposes but he is more survivable with hard to kill, dirty cheater and passing the target to someone else. If you bring him you should consider Gracie aswell. Her 2 armor and healing is quite good to take the heat instead of Burt. If you use both of them Burt can attack someone 3 times from more than 23" (ride gracie with burt, reactivate gracie, ride again, charge with burt), or they can both attack someone from more than 15" (ride burt with gracie, charge with burt and push gracie into base with built in trigger).

Also you don't need too much setup with the rams, one skeeter with ram aura is more than enough. Usually you will have a very low ram in your hand anyway. This single ram will give Burt a damage track of 4-5-6 3 times, it gives Gracie a track of 4-6-8 (focus might help sometimes if you think you can only hit once, to get the 8 dmg). Also Gracie can't get her activation ending trigger this way. And one of my favorites is that Burt will have an auto defensive trigger: every time he wins a Df duel he damagaes back 2-3-4 (no range on it, even damages snipers). Once I framed Burt for murder, charged him in to die but he refused to die and killed 2-3 enemies before he finally went down with his def triggers

[Dogmantra]

I suppose that trixie is useful on Somer for making sure a vulnerable bayou gremlin can get off an activation for an important interact scheme maybe, but it's not really as impactful as killing a big model before it can activate on turn 2

[Lamo]

I suppose that trixie is useful on Somer for making sure a vulnerable bayou gremlin can get off an activation for an important interact scheme maybe, but it's not really as impactful as killing a big model before it can activate on turn 2

 

Well I mean many of you seem to not like trixie with somer but I don't seem to understand it...maybe its because I play a summoning somer? I would also argue that somer is more killy & has longer range than ophelia with encouragement support and he also can make any ram into three thinking luck power shots. 

 

I've evolved my list into something like this: 

 

somer 

     family tree

     dirty cheater

trixie

       gun for a lady

lenny

     ill feed it and pet it

sammy

     encouragement

bayou gremlin 3x

slop hauler

lightning bug

skeeter

 

If you toss a mask to do it like dis on your first turn make 3 bayou gremlin (using encouragement on every flip) heal them all up with a lightning bug now you have the most mobile master in the game at full health without using very much from your hand. I like to have 13+ activations on turn one. You shoot somer with bayou lateish in the turn till you have him in perfect position with his defensive trigger  (and 95% of the time the bayou misses doing no damage due to both Somer and gremlin having bayou two card or you can choose to relent to pull the bayou 3 inches toward somer if its within the 8 inch bubble). With somer pushed exactly where you want him he could end up in bigger hat than you range + you add in that sammy has encouragement so that makes somers bigger hat than you and his shooting attacks totally bonkers. I'm pretty sure there aren't very many other master in the game that can ruin a whole game turn as hard as Somer if he gets initiative and can see the enemy master. 

 

I think having trixie makes this set up much more viable since it drastically reduces counter play due to the fact that she can cheat initiative. I also must express how good her gun and gremlin lure are. The gun with just a rams is a great 3/4/5 damage with a double positive to damage add in encouragement and potentially an opponent with no hand...crazy. Gremlin lure to me is great for moving the slop hauler and lenny early in the game (lenny tosses her and then tosses a pig to follow her lol). I think mainly she is one of the most ap efficient models in the faction. She has three ap, can save slop haulers 2 and lenny 1.5 ap by making them charge at her or she can push away enemies and can make them slow. Both pull targets save enormously due to 1) lenny only has 2 ap ever and saving summoning and throwing ap great 2) for the slop hauler having a 15 inch heal range or even being able to charge or throw slop 20+ inches is awesome. I'll also finish my praise with the fact that she has a great ml stat and awesome triggers on them (up to 6 min damage against any model with almost any defensive ability per turn), her defensive trigger is amazing making her super resilient and lastly all of her triggers can be activated by somer which imo really takes her from great to auto include.

 

Hopefully I changed some of your minds about trixie with somer

 

Last thing is about the lightning bug. I think the lightning bug gives us flexibility. It can deal with incorporeal and armor models well. It can heal without relying on flips. It has a slow.. I mean what doesn't it have? Even its zero action is situationally great. I think it shines best with somer because do it like this makes him one of the best healer in the game on turns that somer wants to summon, aoe damage near lenny or on turns somer is going for a kill, or he slows targets on turns you want trixie pushing models away and slowing. He literally is a 5 point model that does more of what you need on the turn you need it.  

[Bengt]

 I'll also finish my praise with the fact that she has a great ml stat and awesome triggers on them (up to 6 min damage against any model with almost any defensive ability per turn), her defensive trigger is amazing making her super resilient and lastly all of her triggers can be activated by somer which imo really takes her from great to auto include.

 

Hmm? How does the triggers on Slap amount to min 6 damage? They either lets another Gremlin make a Ml attack or pushes other Gremlins closer. Also Trixiebelle doesn't have any Defensive triggers at all.

[szendroib]

Trixie's trigger includes herself. It doesn't say other friendly gremlin model just friendly one. She doesn't have a def trigger, but she can pass the target to an other gremlin if he takes 1 damage.

 

I don't play Somer summoning lists but I really like Lamo's list so I might try it sometimes. Does anyone have other fun summon list that has some utility not just mass summoning?

 

One more trick with Trixie is to speed up your pigs or some other models (McTavish). They aren't gremlins so you can make them charge away.

[Whut]

I'm convinced that the lightning bug is good with Somer now, it never actually clicked to abuse the triggers like that for some reason.

However I do have a few concerns:

1) The list you posted is 52ss. You'll have to drop 2 upgrades, but nearly everything seems pretty important. I would probably have to drop Lenny's pigs and Trixie's gun, or more likely I'd drop the slop hauler.

2) This can go very poorly in several ways. Firstly your list is staying completely static in a 6" bubble for the majority of the first turn. With some speed and a couple of blast markers, you're completely screwed. Also if your opponent flips a 13 or RJ for initiative, you're going to lose your overextended Somer and suddenly your list has very little punch. Also even if you win initiative, there's no guarantee that he'll be bunched up enough for 2 or 3 Thinking Luck shots to immediately win you the game.

3) I'm afraid of having nothing that can really take a punch or two. Even Lenny is quick to die or be pushed with Df4 Wp1, despite his good Ml attack and 10 wounds, and while Trixie is survivable, she has to spread the damage elsewhere to do so, so you're not really mitigating anything. What's left? 6 models with Df5 and 4 Wd or less, and 2 models with Df5 and 5-6 Wd or less.

4) Most people on here seem to be against Somer summoning lists. Is there any reason why? How else would you use him? What do you guys play in Reconnoiter, Squatters, and Interference, because I thought Somer is perfect for those. Is there a different strategy or scheme that Somer really dominates in?

[szendroib]

I don't play summoning list because the gremlin faction is full of awesome figures and I want to spend my time playing them instead of 10+ of the same figures. Also if you want to play to this group's srength and use bigger hat than you then it will come down to the luck of the draw much more than strategy.

 

I'm a fairly new player with only around 8-10 games. I play Somer in his more agressive support style (with limited success since I usually play against Viktorias, Leveticus and a very unmoveable Shenlong crew with a lot of shenanigans). What this means is that you utilize Somer's trigger granting aura. Almost every gremlin model will get huge damage potential with the ram trigger if you check the cards and they also get good defensive abilities with the mask. It will help you disable negative mandatory triggers like Trixie's friendly fire and so on. If you use Somer's ap for shooting instead of summoning he will get huge damage (8 damage + 4 blast but usually you will have to use 1 or 2 focus for it). Encourage can help aswell and you can put it on Sammy as the others said (have not tried it before but sounds awesome). You can use your skeeters as antennas to hand out trigger aswell. I also like to engage important enemies with them since they have def7, and a ml6 attack with built in + flip for disengaging strikes. Potentially they can finish off hard to kill enemies from 10" if you are lucky.

 

As for team setup the figures I like to use are: Raphael, Francois, Gracie, Burt, Mancha Roya, McTavish for damage and Merris, Trixie (can damage with upgrade) or Slop hauler for support. You can build a shooty team or a more melee heavy team with long range Somer and/or McTavish support. Somer has a high SS count and he doesn't really need it for triggers so I like to use them for damage mitigation purposes. Bigger hat than you has a great use here aswell: it completely shuts down summoner masters . Even if you fail it 3 times they probably used all their big summon cards.

 

Some figures I can't fit for now is Pere and Ramy. They seem like great characters but I almost always face snipers. They kill Pere rignt away. Raphael can maybe shoot once but if I use his trigger he will be one shotted right after .

[zFiend]

All of you are talking about encouragement and Somer like it's super good. Please do note people that you do not get a plus flip to damage.

If you have played it so. You have a tons of apologies to make.

[szendroib]

only used it once but i think i have played it right. It helped to hit into cover and cheat. If I want big damage I usually focus 1 or 2 times depending on hard to wound.