Bayou Marcus

[Jordon]

So after having experienced Zoraida and her swamp monsters, I was wondering how a similar list would run with Marcus. I know many people run silurid's with Marcus, but what if you went all in on the swamp theme. 

 

From my little experience facing them, it appears like the swamp crew is highly synergized. Many of their ability either directly or indirectly benefit other swamp fiends. My only concern with them is their lack of punch besides juju. Also being that not all of the swamp fiend models are beasts, you'd be loosing out on some potentially key models.

 

So has anyone tried running Marcus with all swamp models? Does it work? What benefits does Marcus actually give this type of list and does the loss of zoraida, juju or gators really dampen how this functions. Lastly is it worth paying the merc tax to hire Mctavish ?  

[dgraz]

I've always been fascinated to run it, just haven't gotten around to it. I like the Spawn Mother, but she seems a little lacking....Silurids are similar (and that I know from experience)...they're fantastic for Scheme running, but can't scrap too well.....personally I think they're a tad over-priced. If the Mother is similar, then taking a crew with her and a couple Silurids is like playing down a few SS. 

 

Waldgeists are fantastic though.

 

And I think it's worth the merc tax to hire McTavish any day of the week. Have you seen that guy in action? Holy crap....he's the opposite of the Spawn Mother....he ain't lacking shit.

[Math Mathonwy]

And I think it's worth the merc tax to hire McTavish any day of the week. Have you seen that guy in action? Holy crap....he's the opposite of the Spawn Mother....he ain't lacking shit.

Someone has hijacked dgraz's account! He is suggesting non-Beasts into a Marcus crew! 

But seriously, I do agree. McTavish is amazing - especially with Waldgeists.

As for Silurids, I don't think that they are overpriced but they are extremely specialized. Csonti used a lot of Silurids when he won the Vassal league a while back.

Too bad the Bayou Gators aren't Beasts - I don't rate them very highly in Gremlin crews but if they were Beasts I think that Marcus would like them.

[Ludvig]

Since I don't play Marcus (yet!) and just started playing Swampfiend-Zoraida this is all very much theory so you can take this with a large helping of salt. Have however been looking on a way to make this work.

 

To me the Spawn Mother seems to fit better with Marcus than Neverborn. Just look at that +2 to charge range. Let's Marcus (with God's domain?) do 10" charges for 1 AP, yes please! Also leap-charging a couple of Cerberii 18" is nice! Try her to pull one over on a regular opponent who knows exactly what your models are normally capable of doing. As so many others I haven't tried her yet myself.

 

Waldgeists and McTavish on the other hand have been worth their stones in every list I've used myself or faced this far, they are just super awesome if you ask me. Waldgeists tank, give you cover and muck up enemy charges and schemes with their massive melee range while McAwesome is killy and gives you cover against pesky magic users. This guy even makes Pandora sweat when she realises she is a bit too close to a few swampfiends and McTavish gets Sh 9 or more against her. With alpha from Marcus and two corpse/scheme-markers nearby McTavish can get 6 shots in a turn! I'd say that makes good use of Alpha wihout putting your own models at risk.

 

I wish I had some experience to share but now you can be the first one to try the concept and tell us all about it! 

[Whut]

How many Waldgeists should you run? I was intrigued by this and wrote a list consisting of Rogue Necro, Myranda, McTavish, Jackalope, and Waldgheist x2. I feel like more than 2 Waldgheists is overkill in the medium tanky model department, but at the same time I do want more Sh for McTavish. What do?

[Jordon]

I'm unsure the role the spawn mother and gupps plays in this list, or really any list to be honest. The combo of juveniles wail and a mothers rage is nice, but that's about all I see thats decent from them.

 

The gupps themselves make decent scheme runners, but are overshadowed by the silurids. At best I think they make interesting speed bumps that the opponent might not necessarily want to kill. They're melee is half decent for their cost and only marginally worst than a silurid (which is pretty terrible tbh).

 

Spawn mother hits really soft for her cost and none of her summon abilities benefit at all from being Alpha'd. It seems similar to the gupps, that she just want's to summon every turn and ultimately die around turn 4. I do however see her Nourish the young ability getting some use as the gupps, silurids and Marcus himself can get good use from that +2 Cg. All that being said though, I still don't really see her 9ss value. At least not on paper.

[Ludvig]

I'm unsure the role the spawn mother and gupps plays in this list, or really any list to be honest. The combo of juveniles wail and a mothers rage is nice, but that's about all I see thats decent from them.

 

The gupps themselves make decent scheme runners, but are overshadowed by the silurids. At best I think they make interesting speed bumps that the opponent might not necessarily want to kill. They're melee is half decent for their cost and only marginally worst than a silurid (which is pretty terrible tbh).

 

Spawn mother hits really soft for her cost and none of her summon abilities benefit at all from being Alpha'd. It seems similar to the gupps, that she just want's to summon every turn and ultimately die around turn 4. I do however see her Nourish the young ability getting some use as the gupps, silurids and Marcus himself can get good use from that +2 Cg. All that being said though, I still don't really see her 9ss value. At least not on paper.

 

I think a lot of people share your sentiments on the Swampmother. If you go back a while you can find a few discussions on the Swampmother that all boil down to most people saying "Meh, I can do better with other models". I also don't think anyone is suggesting you alpha the mother, I was talking about alphaing McTavish and using the mother with a Cerberus since they can also leap which makes her do more for Marcus than for most Neverborn masters.

 

The difference between Gupps and Silurids is that you basically get two Gupps for the price of one Silurid or one Gupp for almost nothing. Silurids are good for delivering the message, that strategy with the 2Ap interact etc. but if you need to drop a buttload of markers you might be better off with two gupps. Neither Gupps nor Silurids are hitters (like really really NOT hitters ) but they are some of the best at getting you VP from marker based schemes. They also compete for the same spot in my eyes.

[dgraz]

 Neither Gupps nor Silurids are hitters (like really really NOT hitters ) 

I think marking Silurids as really, really bad at hitting is a little too far. They're sub-par at hitting for their cost...but they can hit, and with their trigger to continue hitting (no 'once per turn' caveat) they can hit fairly well when you want them too....they are good for taking out enemy scheme runners.

 

I think you take the Spawn Mother for certain things. If you have something like outflank or ALitS.....or something where you need that extra boost of speed like Deliver the Message....then she will be good since she can drop eggs around that can't be touched....you know that's a guaranteed significant minion coming out late game.

But I wouldn't take her for hitting power....the free charge can be fairly significant (especially if she is getting the Wail benefit as well).

 

Gupps aren't as mobile as Silurids, but a couple of them gumming up the middle of the board would be nice.....just blocking and putting up the Wail every turn. Waldgeists are pretty sick with the Wail bonus.

 

I too really, really.......I mean REALLY wish Bayou Gators were beasts.....no, REALLY.

[Jordon]

Would there be any reason to take wild boars? They are swamp fiend models and their from the shadows somewhat mitigates their set er off ability. On their own they pack a mean punch for a 6ss minion.

 

I'm not sold on what exactly they bring to a swamp list other than a decent punch. In fact they sort of have an anti synergy if your not careful with positioning. They look neat on paper but they may be more trouble than they're worth. 

[Adran]

Marcus will use most of the swamp fiends, but I would say he typically doesn't buiild a "swampfiend list". Rather a list that happens to contain swampfiends.  

Whilst the Spawn mother summons Gupps and can make Gupps and Silurids better, she also makes any leap model better (I also like the 10" Marcus charge, hadn't thouyght of that...) and Marcus is the king of leaping models.

Unless you pick McTavish, you aren't gaiming any swampfiend synergy, you're just using good models.

 

I am interested in Wild Boars, btu haven't tried them yet. a 6ss minion that can potentially charge multiple times on the first turn is something that can be used to good advantage. Or fall flat. The fact they are swampfiends wouldn't be a reason to select them.

 

For a non hitter model, you'd be surprised the number of times I've managed to get Gupps to grow into a silurid. It does require careful target selection, but as a cheap model with leap, its not that hard to get to a good target when one appears.

[Ludvig]

Both Adran and Dgraz make a very good point about attacking targets of opportunity. Anything with 1-2 wounds goes down to basically anything so never be afraid to do that if it prevents the opponent's points. With rams you might actually chip away a few more wounds but I wouldn't count on it. I have never used Silurids like this but the range and ignoring terrain aspects of Leap + Charge can catch people unaware and take out models who think they're safe.

 

In regards to Whut: I don't think I've ever had more than two Waldgeists. Unless the model is only 2-3 ss I don't think I've used three or more of anything since you always miss some other model.

[Whut]

So what is the consensus, is McTavish worth it for over 10 ss? Even at a Sh7 or 8 his 2 weak damage seems to hold him back from really being worth it. Unless of course you beast him and give him fury and alpha, but then at a double negative flip to defense he won't last long against any ranged threats. My best idea is to try to out activate the enemy by taking as many cheap beasts as possible and doing that at the end of the turn, but that makes your activation order extremely strict. Thoughts?

[decker_cky]

So what is the consensus, is McTavish worth it for over 10 ss? Even at a Sh7 or 8 his 2 weak damage seems to hold him back from really being worth it. Unless of course you beast him and give him fury and alpha, but then at a double negative flip to defense he won't last long against any ranged threats. My best idea is to try to out activate the enemy by taking as many cheap beasts as possible and doing that at the end of the turn, but that makes your activation order extremely strict. Thoughts?

McTavish is amazing. He doesn't really need any boosting to be a significant threat (I'd generally focus one of his shots per turn), but with Alpha, decent cards, and the right markers around him, McT can take 3 focused shots per turn.

 

Activation order is one of the anti-synergies of swamp beast heavy lists, since most of the list has perfect camouflage. 

[Whut]

3 Focused Shots? Between needing 2 rams and it being annoying to try to position scheme markers 4" apart in a way that let's him push 3" to one and then be in range of another? That seems like so much trouble. I suppose you can do the first activation, then drop another marker, then do the second activation, but that requires him to have a babysitter.

Edit: I'm not arguing with you, it seems very effective. But I as a player usually go for comfort/reliability over extra effectiveness.

[dgraz]

Not playing with him, but facing him and honestly you can see it on paper (some you really can't, but some you can) he'd be an auto-include if I was running heavy Swampfiends....much more so than the Spawn Mother.

 

I agree with the whole Scheme Marker set-up pain in the butt.....I'm like you that I'm not big into those kinds of setting up...but I think if you were to have some Gupps on the table and you had the right Scheme selections that it wouldn't be a big deal. Would be awesome if Protect Territory were in the pool but you didn't take it.

[decker_cky]

I wasn't so much saying as a normal strategy, but with the option to discard scrap, scheme or corpse markers, there's games where that's not unreasonable to occasionally have available. And if you have some inconsequential rams, you can do it without too much cost. In general, it's very easy to set up a perfect focused shot on a key target with him while remaining mobile, and he has a ton of different tools that make him much more than just a shooter to justify his cost.

 

 

I think spawn mother and gupps don't get enough love. The SM in is an interesting model that can create 'no win' situations for your opponent, either by allowing a free charge when killing another nearby swamp beast, or by hatching gupps prematurely. WIth non-marcus swamp beast crews, you can have bad juju adding to the choice between bad choices situation too. Gupps themselves with juvenile wail combine nicely to the overall effect too.

 

The gupps are relatively solid in themselves, and I think may be better value in a lot of schemes than silurids. As a summoned choice, gupps are spectacular considering their resilience and speed.