Location of the Breach

[Tzarcastic]

Reading up on Malifaux's greatly entertaining lore, this question keeps on popping into my head.

 

We have a lot of dates for the Breach's history, but no real places.  Where is it?  What is this city which had the bad luck to be totally destroyed TWICE by a portal to Tim Burton's subconscious?  And how did the surrounding area's history get changed by a century of war which gave rise not to any nation, but a new superpower dubbing itself a "Guild"?

 

I have a number of theories, but rather than bore everyone with my own ramblings, I'd really like to hear some new ideas.  Where do you imagine it being?  Why put it there?  The mix of English-sounding names, eastern European labor unions, East Asian rail workers, Hispanic bandits and Native American scouts does suggest a certain setting, but is that the right one?  If so, where in the American West would Europe have had access to in 1786?  If not, what brings those elements together somewhere else in the world, and how does the world's history change to accommodate it?

 

What is the location of The Breach?

[Bengt]

In North America, not too close to the east coast. There are off hand remarks in the first two books about how characters travelled to the breach and currency outside breach ("greenbacks"). There are secondary breaches of smaller size in other places, at least one in the three kingdoms that the Ten Thunder uses.

[Tzarcastic]

There are secondary breaches of smaller size in other places, at least one in the three kingdoms that the Ten Thunder uses.

Yes, true.

I should have specified that I mean the "main" Breach, the one which is (1) public knowledge, and (2) permanent.

 

As far as I can tell, the Ten Thunders one is the only other permanent one which ANYONE in the lore knows of, and it is secret to anyone outside the Thunders (and a lot of people inside?  I kinda doubt that they tell Lynch about it, for example).

[Omenbringer]

There was a fairly lengthy thread about this subject with many great arguments made for the location of the Breach. Unfortunately I can not remember the name of the thread otherwise I'd post the link here.

 

Aside from the Ten Thunder's minor breach dont the Arcanist have one they use for smuggling Earthside?

[tmod]

Here you go: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/102836-where-is-the-breach-at/?fromsearch=1

[Tzarcastic]

Awesome - thanks!

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Yeah, I remember the last topic about this. I could have sworn that around the end of 1.5 someone told me it was New York City. Or maybe I made that up... /shrug

Seems like a good place to have it. My grand master plan is to make a gameboard twice as long as it is supposed to be (4'x8') and make a gangs-circa map of the five points with the breach where the natives and dead rabbits fought in the movie.

We'll see when I get around to that... :/

I do have a steampunk bill the butcher which I am more than happy with :)

I my mind there is no better place to have the breach than in the five points... epic!

[Dirial]

New York is still named New Amsterdam, I think, and one of the only cities that is confirmed to still exist. Seamus is in the news there, for example. The city the Breach is in was destroyed.

[Tzarcastic]

New York is still named New Amsterdam, I think, and one of the only cities that is confirmed to still exist. Seamus is in the news there, for example. The city the Breach is in was destroyed.

Really?  How bizarre and fascinating!  So, presumably, England never bought New York from the Dutch... yet England's hegemony doesn't otherwise seem reduced in this setting, since the majority of characters seem to have English names...

 

Neat.  Any idea what book that's from?  I don't have the 1-1.5 books yet, but shall soon.

[moxypoo]

For some reason, I've always thought that the Main Breach was somewhere in the American southwest, but for the life of me I can't remember what I read to make me think that.  I'll have to reread all the 1.5 books and see if I can figure out where that thought came from.

 

Definitely some interesting discussion about the backstory in this thread and the one TMOD linked to! 

[Dirial]

Neat.  Any idea what book that's from?  I don't have the 1-1.5 books yet, but shall soon.

 

It's in the 1.5 book, in Seamus character entry. I think I have read it in a few addidtional places, like the TtB books, but I'm not sure where.

[decker_cky]

Here you go: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/102836-where-is-the-breach-at/?fromsearch=1

 

Nice discussion there. I think a lot of the thinking in it focuses on "where would you most conveniently get a congregation of wizards", and ignores the fact that there are likely weak spots where the breach could be created. I say likely, because when the first breach was torn open, secondary breaches far away opened as well. We only know about the three kingdoms one, which was a closed country to most of the 1787 citizens. So they gather where they sense the barrier to the magic being weak, and where they can actually gather. Gathering in Europe in some ancient university would be convenient, but maybe it was just plain impossible for the wizards at that point.

[Tzarcastic]

I've actually been assuming that the wizards who made the Breach were acting without a great deal of help or recognition from governments or the like, and so would have more likely to wind up somewhere off on a frontier.

 

That takes me through a pet list of USA places, same as many people (Philadelphia, New Orleans, Cahokia/St. Louis)... and it's also what makes me consider Australia as a highly overlooked contender.

[enderwiggin]

Given the old convo I am fairly certain it's in NA, but no sense arguing about it when people want their own places to be the 'correct' answer. Plus, we really are basing it off speculation that Malifaux shares our history which may be completely topsy-turvy. Fwiw, there's more than one breach now, so multiple avenues of crossing the barrier are around and left up to our minds ti imagine up some fluff!

[Tzarcastic]

That's another thing that confuses me - the idea that people want The Breach in their own back yard.

I mean, that's clearly true for many, from what I've seen in the other thread, but why?

 

Spoilers: I am in and (mostly) from the United States.  Yet while this region seems like the most obvious place to find Malifaux's assorted Old West elements (seriously, Native American guides), I also find it the least-interesting answer.  There's loads of fiction about the Big Mysterious World-Shaking Magical Thing happening in the Eastern United States.  I mean, Cthulhu cult activity coming to a head in New England alone is practically a whole genre, and that's before you get to any given New York-based Urban Fantasy, or The Langoliers, or all the alien invasions which seem oddly USA-centric - the list goes on and on.

 

So, I tried really hard to think of another plausible location for The Breach.  My first thought was India (since I've had a pet theory that Sonnia Criid was Hindustani for a while now, and when you add in Sidir Archibal, that would make the only two "respectable*" non-white Guild higher-ups we know of both from India).  Sadly, though I liked India as a place pretty well settled by white people (lots of very English names and pale skin in Malifaux, can't get around that) by 1786 and very well ruled by them in 1901, there proved to be some holes in that theory.  One, a couple of high-ranking people in one faction really isn't enough representation of what should be the dominant population demographic.  Two, it's really not even two people, because Sidir - despite being a Sikh - is actually Egyptian(?).  And three, Chinese rail workers.

 

So, I tried again, looking for a region outside of both Europe and North America where the population skewed whiter, and more non-native ethnicities would be coming in (rather than local labor being conscripted).  This led me to Australia, which by chance, was getting its first foreign settlement right around the time the Breach opened.  Plus, Malifaux is functionally a penal colony in many respects, which dovetails neatly with Australian history.  And an excuse to put Maori tattoos on Joss** - bonus!

 

Part of Malifaux's appeal to me is how it takes so many well-explored themes (steampunk western, Tim Burton gothic, and Lovecraftian horror, among others) and builds a really unique setting out of it.  Why spoil that by making it revisit well-tread paths any more than necessary?

 

 

 

* Yes, yes, everyone respects the Ortegas now.  But as I understand it, they're ex-cons who people only like because of their kill record against the Neverborn, so it's not like they were high on the Guild's totem pole when they came in.

 

** New Zealand is not Australia, and is in fact some distance away.  I know.  But come on - Maori tattoos on Joss!  It'll be awesome.

[Wakshaani]

It's clearly in North America. The place *I* have it at, which, mind you, isn't presented in fiction, is a bit odd.

 

First, some real history. "The American West" is a sliding scale, depending on the era. The Ozarks of Arkansas are different from Texas, which is different than California or Utah. Interestingly enough, one of the *big* areas that was known as "The West" around 1880 was the Dakotas... this is where Sitting Bull and teh Sioux fought hard against the US, and where people from "Back East" would travel to in search of freedom and a new life. North Dakota is where a young Teddy Roosevelt went to be a cowboy and was where the rail really started pushing into teh wild lands of America.

 

Heck, Deadwood, South Dakota, is where all teh famous wild west people were, so it should be close.

 

SO, I went with Medora North Dakota, a then-boom town (heh) which was being used as a rail hub by a Frenchman who wanted to sell frozen beef to Chicago. It's right on the Transcontinental Railroad and not terribly far from Deadwood, and is sparse enough that a big KERBOOM won't change the nation like erasing New Amsterdam or CHicago would have done, but placed well enough that people would quickly find out and try to do Something about it. That our nobleman, the Marquis de Mores, named the place after his dead wife only ties in fantasticly with the Ressers whose magic is so strong in Malifaux. Maybe he needed an isolated area to try some spell, using a massive artifact powered by the frozen hearts of ten thousand (It never said it had to be humans!), but ithe ritual went sideways.

 

Regardless, it's a big crossroads area that can draw from all manner of folks ... fresh settlers from Irieland and Scottland, a large CHinese population from Deadwood (and teh rail workers), the Old West aura, scads of Native Americans, the ability to draw from "Back East" or from Canada, and so on.

 

Heck, Malifaux's badlands are filled with people trying to make a living with cattle ranching, and Medora was an area where cattle were driven to. If they got there after the boom, well, they couldn't exactly go back home, so, sell them cheap, drive them through the breach, and hope for the best.

 

There are probably better locations, but this one's mine.

[Bengt]

Nice discussion there. I think a lot of the thinking in it focuses on "where would you most conveniently get a congregation of wizards", and ignores the fact that there are likely weak spots where the breach could be created. I say likely, because when the first breach was torn open, secondary breaches far away opened as well. We only know about the three kingdoms one, which was a closed country to most of the 1787 citizens. So they gather where they sense the barrier to the magic being weak, and where they can actually gather. Gathering in Europe in some ancient university would be convenient, but maybe it was just plain impossible for the wizards at that point.

But what is there to discuss about weak spots? It's going to be arbitrarily decided by the writer anyway. Logistics is something that you can extrapolate from history.

 

That's another thing that confuses me - the idea that people want The Breach in their own back yard.

I mean, that's clearly true for many, from what I've seen in the other thread, but why?

 

Spoilers: I am in and (mostly) from the United States.  Yet while this region seems like the most obvious place to find Malifaux's assorted Old West elements (seriously, Native American guides), I also find it the least-interesting answer.  There's loads of fiction about the Big Mysterious World-Shaking Magical Thing happening in the Eastern United States.  I mean, Cthulhu cult activity coming to a head in New England alone is practically a whole genre, and that's before you get to any given New York-based Urban Fantasy, or The Langoliers, or all the alien invasions which seem oddly USA-centric - the list goes on and on.

There are tons of myths and legends set in Europe (or any other region). If you haven't heard of any it's because of bias in your reading habits, not because they don't exist.

 

---

 

It's clear from the 1st edition books that it's in North America. But I still feel that it was placed there because that is where the authors are from, not any logic. To me, Europe, India, Africa, or China (in no particular order) are all more suitable for various reasons. Though if they had any plans for Ten Thunders right from the start, that would disqualify China as Ten Thunders need to not control the main breach.

[enderwiggin]

Trying to force anyone to accept that one choice over the other is completely without logic is just going to make you look like a donkey Bengt.

 

I get that you don't like the NA approach but there's loads of logic supporting it, just like there's loads of logic against the Euro outlook. However, the reverse is true to a degree. All the locations have ups/downs, if it was clear cut one or the other then it wouldn't have led to this much speculation.

 

Also for the record, I like the Australia approach. That one would have made so much more sense if they had drop bears and spiders in Malifaux models.

I would also love for Africa to be a breach, but that's just because I'm a Darkest Heart of Africa sort of fan and the game thusfar hasn't really done much (none to my knowledge) or their very interesting magics and mythical monsters.

[Tzarcastic]

Also for the record, I like the Australia approach. That one would have made so much more sense if they had drop bears and spiders in Malifaux models.

 

 

Great idea!

Custom alternate Jackalope model coming up.

[Bengt]

Trying to force anyone to accept that one choice over the other is completely without logic is just going to make you look like a donkey Bengt.

I tried to be very clear that I was stating an opinion, prefacing statements with "I still feel" and "to me". I didn't try to force anyone to think anything.

 

I was active in the thread linked earlier and I didn't find the NA arguments at all convincing, but perhaps "...not any logic." was a bit harsh.

[Wakshaani]

Incidently, for my home game of Through the Breach, I went ahead and modifie dthe history somwhat.

 

The current breach opened in 1876, with a location as mentioned above.

 

The previous Breach closed in 1776, having opened in 1726 (And the "Black Powder Wars" were , in essence, teh Seven Years War, see below) ... this one was near Oxford, in England.

 

The Breach before *that* opened in France (Near Paris) in 1648 and remained open until 1698.

 

The first Breach was opened in 1355, in Prague, with "New Town" being built afterwards, using mathematic magics to try and stabilize the Breach. Riots after the death of Charles IV in 1378 damaged the system, while the Easter Riots of 1389 followed the Breach's final collapse and ethnic rioting as groups blamed one another for the failure.

 

(The Breach opened sporadicly from 1401-1648, stuttering through Europe, Africa, and Asia, but never for more than one year in any one location. Later research shows that the areas 'visited' were ones from which mages who performed the initial ritual had come from.)

 

The Soulstones brought ovr from the Breach each time give that nation a period of great power and wealth, but also makes them soemthing of a target for the rest of the world and the empires tend to falter, badly, when the Breach closes and access is lost. In France, which had the Breach the longest of anyone until that time, created "L'Institute d'Arcane" to train magicians, and accepted students from all over Europe (Who, of course, had to buy expensive Soulstones to use that magic!), spreading magical lore widely. When teh Breach was lost, they did their best to stay on top of the magical world, noting that magic was for wealth aristocrats and 'special people', a noble's path that was generally supported in the monarch-heavy Europe of the day.

 

When the Breach opened in England, they were visited by the French, who tried to take control of the operation, but quickly turned it into a more egletarian movement, not only refusing to sell Soulstones to other nations, but to train their own mages in more technical methodology, eventually forming The Guild. England and France went to war over this, matching France's superior training and vast storehouses of Soulstones (Which, when depleted, couldn't be replaced) against England's less-trained, but more technologically-advanced, forces who had fewer stones but could gather more due to having teh Breach. Peace was eventually had, but both nations wree pretty well drained financially afterwards and, when teh Breach closed, they were both kinda helpless. (This, of course, is when the US broke free from the King.)

 

With the new Breach in the US, the Guild moved in, taking arole similar to the French a century past, where they assure the locals that only *they* have the knowhow to keep an eye on things, properly mine, and so on, while teh Arcanists are right behind, talking to their old friends, the Americans, and charming them as best they can. The Breach and Malifaux, are technically under the control of the US Government, and after several Governors died in office, former US president General US Grant himself stepped in to rule as Governor-General, with both the Guild and the Arcanists as rival advisors. The Guild tries to get the Arcanists outlawed, but thusfar can't quite manage it, while the Arcanists lak the money or manpower of teh Guild but has superior magicians and magical lore.

 

This creates a nice political tug of war, spinning up a level of intrigue more fun, to me, than an all-powerful Guild that runs everything. Spies, counter-spies, operations against one another, operations in support of an ally, government vs business, The People vs Aristocracy, Old Ways vs New Ways ... there are tons of ways to spin the conflict, and the longer history and multiple locations of past Breaches gives a better excuse for the varied construction seen in Malifaux itself.  

 

And that doesn't even get to the pre-Breach methods of accessing Malifaux, which gives us some Egyptian things, LONG abandoned, tucked away in the Badlands or along the river...

[Tzarcastic]

Wakshaani - I love it!

 

Musing on the interplay between Malifaux history, Earthside history, and real-world events is a favorite hobby of mine, and that sets up all kinds of neat background and conflict.

[Wakshaani]

Yuppers! Totally not the official history of course, but I'm focusing on my Through the Breach campaign, so "Where is the Breach?" is a question I needed to answer, and then wanting to diversify the background a bit in terms of political interplay by making more factionalization was a bonus.

 

But that's just my game, and I should wave a big flag around the post to make that clear.

[DOGGED]

The linked previous thread is very inspirational. AFAIK, the Breach would need, as background seems to imply, a nearby source of both material and human resurces, while being itself physically separated enough from large urbanised and populated areas as to not drive too much attention on it, both from the governemnt ruling the site and the institutions located in its proximity. Also hints are brought by several sources, be them explicit geographical mentions (Oxford MS), ethnical groups (British-French-Spanish-Native Americans, and the Chinese working on the rail), cultural leaning (a certain French flavour in a British language setting which also sports a true Caribbean touch to it-c'mon, voodoo, zombies!).

 

The most likely environment looks like the area surrounding southern Louisiana. It is near New Orleans and hence a well known city with an active and well known port which can harbour ships coming from Europe, while also being itself a destination for surface travelling in North America. So the logistics source is checked. The diverse ethnic origins of people are too justified as the area had been under French control, the Spanish nominally held it but really its population still would be a mix of immigrants and natives, all from a very diverse cultural procedence. It is "near" Oxford MS enough as to this being chosen as a place to found an arcane leaning university, itself an institution which could be difficult to raise in the Old World (out of officially sanctioned academic institutions and so official control). The government control in the area was definitely loose enough as to official presence being faint beyond the city of NO and military outposts, and of course a steady source of income would be welcome by officials willing to turn around and pretend they not see.

 

Also, while becoming an important place in itself, the Breach, because of its closing, would not draw attention again while the US expanded; the buying of Louisiana happened IIRC by 1804 and so 5 years after the closing of the Breach; also the need of money would offset the chance of the reopening, and the fact the place was to all extent privately run would lessen its loss. The Guild's birth and its growth to power is far better explained if it happens in North America than in Europe where it would attract official attention quickly, be it governmental or academical. Also, institutions like the Inquisition could and would make use of magic if church sanctioned, so magic wouldn't be necessarily mutually exclusive with the church; in fact it would help to locate secondary breachs as they could appear in places traditionally believed of as magic, where religious installations were built. Here in Catalonia the mountain of Montserrat comes as an example; I guess that maybe Uppsala could be another?

[OneLittleThunder]

Canonical answer spotted!

 

In the newest Through the Breach one-shot adventure, "Legacy of Darkness", it is casually mentioned that the train from Earth to Malifaux City departs from "Breachtown (formerly Santa Fe, New Mexico)."