Your favorite Zoraida beatstick

[Phinn]

Recently I started to play Zoraida... well, so far I have played only a single game, but I have been reading a lot about her.

 

I purchased The Swamp Hag - Zoraida Box Set and box of 3 Waldgeists and I own some Gremlins as well (The Kin - Ophelia Box Set and 2 Slop Haulers).

 

I was doing an excercise where I generated Strategy and a pool of Schemes and using the Crew Creator built a Crew. Rince and repeat.

I feel like the models that I own give me more or less all that I need - Waldgeists are durable, Silurids are great scheme runners, Gremlins do a lot of ranged damage (Sadly Francois LaCroix can be hired only in Gremlins Faction as opposed to Raphael and Rami LaCroix and Pere Ravage.)... but I would also like to have an expensive beatstick.

And this is the reason, why I am posting this topic. I would like to ask you, what is your favorite Zoraida beatstick.

 

Since Zoraida, Bad Juju, Silurids, Waldgeists and Spawn Mother and Gupps, that I am planning on purchasing, all have Swampfiend Characteristic, McTavish is an obvious choice.

He is a Gremlin Mercenary so can be hired by both Gremlin and Neverborn Faction, synergyzes greatly with Swampfiend models, has Swampfiend Characteristic himself so can be hired via Tarot Reading Upgrade as well (And synergyzes with Bad Juju's Eternal zFiend Upgrade, even thought it is going to happen very rarely.) and has two (1) Attack Actions with high damage potential that he can be Obeyed to perform.

I also like his picture in Crossroads and fluffn... fluffiness... feel of Zoraida, Swampfiend Beasts and McTavish Crew.

 

But... he is definitely not the only candidate. There is so much great beatsticks, that I think would work very well with Zoraida.

So I would like to ask you for your opinion on models like Teddy, Mancha Roja, Hooded Rider, Ototo, Samurai, maybe even Stitched Together and alike.

Recently there was a topic dedicated to Whiskey Golem, so that one is not really required. But if you are a Whiskey Golem aficionado and feel like sharing your opinion, I will be glad.

 

And if you have some advice regarding McTavish or just would like to praise him, I would like to hear that too. Or mabye you hired him and he didn't fulfill your expectations. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thank you.

[lusciousmccabe]

(And synergyzes with Bad Juju's Eternal zFiend Upgrade, even thought it is going to happen very rarely) 

 

Is that the one that lets him make "That's what she said" jokes as a (0) action?  

 

 

 

[Mxbedlam]

My favorite Zoraida beat stick is Teddy with On Dreaming Wings upgrade. A flying teddy is something your opponents will learn to fear. Especially when it can be obeyed to fly across the board and then activate to Gobble up an enemy model they thought was safe.

[EnternalVoid]

I would also throw a Strongarm Suit as possible beatsticks as the Armor +2 is not bad either.  I have taken him when I expected little anti armor and given him Mimic's Blessing to give him some protection from charges.  He is there for those times I need durability over sheer offensive value of something like Teddy.

 

But to add to the McTavish you can maximize his shooting further with Zoraida as your master regardless of the faction she plays.  She can take Papa Loco as a mercenary and the positive to damage really makes McTavish's gun kind of scary *Namely when you are getting 3-4 shots a turn with it*.  Not carrying about Cover or combat plus the possibility of having effective 7 or 8 shooting if you have a few swampfiends makes him pretty accurate with it as well.  I have had him first turn drop models with Zoraida because of this, using tricks to move him forward and then using his (0) action to get those few more inches to get something in range and unload on it, then having Zoraida obeying him later for another shot or moving to a better location.

 

That said I have also played Zoraida plenty of times with out a true beatstick and instead a fair share of 7-8ss models.  I have had her Obey a Beckoner to use her promises against a target, Obey a Illuminated into the target, and obeyed a Nurse to give a Illuminated +2 to melee damage near the end of a turn where my opponent was almost out of activations and could not stop it.  Illuminated's first attack missed as it brought out a desperate 13 from their hand but the second landed with moderate damage of 8.

[Phinn]

Teddy with On Dreaming Wings upgrade

(0) Gobble You Up... followed by (2) Flurry looks really scary

As soon as I learn how to properly use models that I already own, I will borrow my friend's Teddy and try him out.

But I am little hesitant about On Dreaming Wings. I feel like the 2 SS price is balanced around the fact, that it provides Flight Ability to other friendly Nightmares in 6 as well, but on the other hand... Flight Ability and +1 Wk for 2 SS doesn't sound that bad.

Voodoo Doll Hems Teddy, Zoraida makes three (1) Interact Actions with Voodoo Doll via Vodoo Doll's Dance, Puppet Ability and Teddy casts Gobble You Up... followed by (2) Flurry. That is 26" flying push and three (1) Hug Attack Actions with to Attack and Damage Flips.

It is a little bit costly but definitely effective. It requires Voodoo Doll to be already summoned or hired (which in my opinion is a waste of 3 SS) though.

But, as you said, as long as Teddy is within 12" of Zoraida and within hers LoS, you can just Obey Teddy to take (1) Walk Action for 6" flight.

 

I have also played Zoraida plenty of times with out a true beatstick and instead a fair share of 7-8ss models.

I have played her only once so far, In Gremlins faction and my pseudo beat stick was Francois LaCroix (7 SS).

His (1) Rough Rider Attack Action has a Trigger on called Loose Trigger that allows you to suffer 1 damage and take Rough Rider again.

It is a (1) Action so can be Obeyed, Loose Trigger doesn't state that "this Action may not declare any Triggers" so you can declare it multiple times and Francois LaCroix is a Henchman, which means that he can burn Soulstone for if you really need it.

[zFiend]

You should really look into Nurses. Their +2 damage makes pretty much anything a pretty good or a really good beatstick. 

 

Also how about Nekima? Sounds pretty brutal if she could spend all her AP on hitting things and you could keep it a bit more safe. As you could just obey her to walk out of cover and then charge in with her. Sure she's quite costly SS wise. 

[Phinn]

You should really look into Nurses. Their +2 damage makes pretty much anything a pretty good or a really good beatstick.

Looking at her card, she synergyzes with Zoraida immensely. Not only all those "Voodoo Doll shenanigans" that I have been reading about, but things like Illegible Prescriptions or Accomplice as well.

There is not a single Ability, Action or Trigger that I would feel like is not going to be useful. All this for 6 SS (5 SS cost + 1 SS Mercenary fee due to Enthrall Ability).

The problem is that I do not really like her model. And after reading some posts I feel like she carries this stigma that everyone who plays her in Zoraida Crew is worse than Hitler.

 

 

Also how about Nekima?

This is what I hate about Malifaux! I haven't even finished building my Zoraida Box Set yet, all you said was "Also how about Nekima?" and now I want to purchase Lilith Box Set, box of Nephilim, Nekima, Black Blood Shaman, maybe Lelu and Lilitu...

[zFiend]

Hahahah. I'm sorry. Well as sorry as a Rezzer can be.

So none. Good luck.

[Mxbedlam]

I have to second the Nurse. She is without a doubt one of the best things about playing Zoraida. She can alternately buff your guys for full power, she can deny your opponent's AP by fully healing an already beaten down model, and  she can take an enemy beat stick out of the game by Paralyzing it or giving it only walk actions. Pretty much the best you are going to get for her very cheap cost. I will tell you that your opponent will go to great lengths to remove her from the board, so keeping her safe is probably a good option. Alternately, you can use her as a trap to get your opponent out of position as they gun her down.

[zFiend]

A friend of mine (Math) really put the Nurses together in one perfect sentence.

"The opponent can only underestimate or overestimate the impact the Nurses have in the game". I wholeheartedly agree. They are absolutely amazing.

[PositronMike]

The performer really works with the nurse as well. Hem an enemy model you want dead and ten use the nurse to poison the voodoo doll. Performer can then expunge the target for 8 damage.

[Mxbedlam]

Good thing to point out is, beware where and what you Hem and when you kill it. If you are playing vs a summoner that needs markers, an easy to kill target could potentially turn into something scarier. Sometimes its better to just heal/paralyze the doll to perma lock down the model you have hemmed. Did this to a henchman Vik for an entire game.

[Phinn]

The best illustration of how good Nurse in Zoraida Crew is, is the fact that every topic about Zoraida ends as a Nurse praising topic

 

The performer really works with the nurse as well. Hem an enemy model you want dead and ten use the nurse to poison the voodoo doll. Performer can then expunge the target for 8 damage.

Even though it is a nice combo, it takes a lot of resources, mainly in the form of Action Points, but primarily doesn't utilize the potential that Voodoo Doll connection has.

If the Voodoo Doll is not already summoned or is left behind (It has Wk 3 and receives Slow upon summoning. On the other hand Hem has Rg: 10.), Zoraida would have to summon it for 2 AP. If not, Voodoo Doll would have to (1) Hem its target. It would take Nurse two (1) Actions to apply 8 Posion on Voodoo Doll and Hemmed target and Performer (1) Action to cause the damage.

That is 4-5 AP and 3-4 Activations just to cause 8 damage and pull target its Wk. And it costs 6 SS to hire Nurse and another 6 SS to hire Performer.

It would cause more damage, if you used Performer's Sirene Call on Voodoo Doll itself. Target would take the same damage as Voodoo Doll (up to 6) and still would be left with Poison +8 Condition.

That is one of the mechanics of connection between Voodoo Doll and the Hemmed model. You apply Burning +2 on Voodoo Doll and the Hemmed model and at the end of the round tha target suffers 2 damage from the Burning +2 Condition and another 2 damage, because Voodoo Doll suffered 2 damage caused by its Burning +2 Condition.

 

What I had in mind was a beatstick... actually THE beatstick.

A model, that has (1) Attack Action (So it can be Obeyed to perform it out of its Activation.) with high damage potential, that would greatly benefit from additional single AP or cards - a model that might be balanced around the fact, that it is difficult to get it into the action (Maybe it has low Wk.) or strength of it's Attack Action is offset by it's suit dependency.

[Mxbedlam]

I still say for full on beatstick in Neverborn you can't get better than Teddy. High damage, healing potential, terror checks, and generally a monster to deal with.  With Zoraida's help he becomes a model that terrorizes the entire table. Same could be said with Bad Juju as well, especially if Eternal Fiend keeps him on the board even if you over extend.

 

The one thing Neverborn usually don't have to worry about is getting to the action. Surviving the action might be a different story as the faction seems to be a haven for glass cannons. Zoraida helps survivability through extra actions. Quite simply, if they die before they activate, they don't hit the beat stick for lots of damage. Top hitting non master specific models for the faction are:

Illuminated, Bad Juju, Teddy, Baby Kade, Nekima, and Barbaros. That's MHO. Heavy hitters Zoraida can take and no one else can are: McTavish, Ototo,Rapheal, and Rami. Pere and Papa Loco have honorable mentions because they can blow up to take out many things.

[moxypoo]

I've just started playing Zoraida but I have lots of experience with Teddy (Leveticus) and Baby Kade (Hamelin). I've yet to try Baby Kade out with Zoraida, but I can see him working really well, since he's so easy to hide.  Then Zoraida can Obey him to to move out from cover where he can start slaughtering enemy models who don't see him coming.  Plus, with the Nurse's +2 damage trigger, Sweetbreads, and having his target engaged with another model, Kade is doing 7 damage minimum per hit.  Not much can survive that in this game!

 

The major downside I can see is that Kade is fairly fragile, so for durability, I would choose the Hooded Rider or Teddy I think.  This thread has been really informative for a fledgling Neverborn player!

[Mxbedlam]

I've played Zoraida now more than any other master. She's a very different beast than a lot of other masters and has a ton of depth to her playstyle. No two Z lists play the same tactics. I'll miss her when I put her aside here in a month or two to focus on the next 3 masters.

She can:

Deep strike with Hexed among you

Out card your opponent with crystal ball and Bewitch

Hand out aggressive conditions w/ Voodoo Doll and Hexed Bag

Take Gremlins for a gunline

Out manuever opponents with Animal Shape and Beckoners

and so many more that its hard to list. I'm pretty sure you could just play Z and not be disappointed as a Neverborn or Gremlin player

[Phinn]

Disclaimer: I am very inexperienced Malifaux player and everything that I wrote is just musing and theorycrafting mainly in order to plan on my future purchases

 

I would also like to thank everyone who provided and/or will provide their opinion, John 'Mrbedlam' Fox especially, whose Wicked Games: Beginners Guide to Zoraida and Wiked Games: Zoraida's Crew blog posts were very helpfull.

 

With that being said...

 

McTavish

As I already wrote, most of the models that I own, or am planning on purchasing, are Swampfiend, which makes McTavish number 1 candidate for my Zoraida beatstick.

His another advantage is, that he provides Swampfiend list with a great shooting Attack Action.

 

Teddy

Teddy will be the next model, that I will try out, because Mrbedlam's arguments are very convincing.

 

The Illuminated

The Illuminated is a model that attracted my attention, right after McTavish, probably the most.

The model greatly benefits from extra cards on hand, namely , that will indirectly increase its damage by +2, or allow you to cheat the Damage Flip even if it sufferes one or more .

Its Ml is above average (6 ) so it is very likely (Zoraida's card advantage taken into account) that the Attack Action will be successful. And if the target has Brilliance Characteristic, that you can apply, all you need is... "Welcome, friends, to another episode of Laika's Fun with Statistics!" An average value of a card is 7, because [4*(1+2+3+...+12+13)+0+14]/54=7, which means that all you (statisticly) need is 6 of on the Attack Flip to be then allowed to cheat the Damage Flip with anything higher than 6 to cause at least 6 damage.

Both of its Attack Actions cost 1 AP, so it can be Obeyed to perform them out of its Activation.

I feel like they are going to work better, if you play at least two of them, given the mechanic of how the indirect damage buff is applied. They cost only 7 SS and are very mobile and durable [Df 5, Wd 7, Armor +1, Regeneration +1, Terrifying (Living) 10, (0) self healing Tactical Action].

 

Baby Kade

I will probably try to play him with Waldgeists.

Most of the time they will have Engagement Range of 4", which would provide Baby Kade's (1) Carving Knife with +2 damage bonus.

And even though Baby Kade has only Wd 6 it has very high Df of 7, so will greatly benefit from Soft Cover Waldgeists can provide via its (0) Germinate Tactical Action.

 

Raphael LaCroix

I feel like Raphael LaCroix works much better in Gremlin than Neverborn faction, mainly because of Dirty Cheater Upgrade, that allows him to heal 1 Wound every time he cheats during his Activation, which is invaluable, because he has Hard to Kill Ability.

 

Rami LaCroix

Rami's role is a little bit different from the other models that focus mainly on dealing damage. His damage isn't that high (compared to previously discussed models), but his greatest advantage is his colossal threat range.

Zoraida obeys him to Focus, he then activates, uses Reckless Ability and shoots, focuses and shoots again.

That is 2 Shooting Attack Actions with Rg: 36" and to Attack and Damage Flip. His Damage Flip is 1/3/4 so the to it helps a lot.

[PositronMike]

I tend not to go down the beatstick route with Zoraida. If I were the two models that would be prime candidates are Bad Juju and McTavish. With Bad Juju being able to deploy from the shadows and then obeying him to walk means he should be in position to flurry turn 1. McTavish is interesting because I prefer him in Gremlins with Cute Critters but he can work well in neverborn as he helps make Waldegeists even tougher. 

 

Another model to consider if you are after something that can cause lots of damage is the Wild Boars as they get  when being obeyed to make attack actions.

 

(If playing Zoraida in Gremlins the obvious heavy hitter for me is the War Pig as you can obey them to charge.)

[zFiend]

Hm. Baby Kade becomes quite ridiculous with the Nurses. + damage from being engaged with another model, + damage from sweetbreads, + damage from Hallucinogens.

[PraetorDragoon]

Are we looking at 9/10/12 damage there, or are my maths wrong? (Rivals the Pale Rider and Ice Golem for highest minium damage)

 

I like this idea of Baby Kade beatsticking. I should use him more.

[zFiend]

Something like that. I don't quite remember the + damages he gets. But yes we are talking something quite ridiculous. Ffs. I need Zoraida now. I wanna try this out.

[Phinn]

With Bad Juju being able to deploy from the shadows...

Eyes in the Woods Ability (Hexed Among You Upgrade) allows you to deploy only Swampfiend Minions as if they had From the Shadows Ability, so it doesn't work on Bad Juju, McTavish nor Spawn Mother.

[PraetorDragoon]

Eyes in the Woods Ability (Hexed Among You Upgrade) allows you to deploy only Swampfiend Minions as if they had From the Shadows Ability, so it doesn't work on Bad Juju, McTavish nor Spawn Mother.

 

Well, you learn something new every day then. 

 

At least the sacrificial Gupp for unburying Juju still works.

[Dirial]

I have faced Nekima in a Zoraida crew once. It wasn't too pretty. That girl hits hard and is very fast, and if she can stay back and then just rush the board, she is a handful to deal with.

[moxypoo]

Something like that. I don't quite remember the + damages he gets. But yes we are talking something quite ridiculous. Ffs. I need Zoraida now. I wanna try this out.

 

It would be 7/8/10 I believe.  The starting damage code is 1/2/4 if I remember correctly, so +2 from Nurse, +2 from being engaged with another model, and +2 from Sweetbreads for a total of +6 damage.