Kaeris Crew issues... I'm not doing it right!

[Grantt]

Hey y'all,

 

I've been playing for ages and I've been working with each of the Arcanist masters. My favourite by far has to be Kaeris, both from a fluff perspective and an adoration of the model. I adored her in 1st ed and she was in all my arcanist crews; when Mei Feng hit the scene, I played nothing else for about  year.

 

But I'm finding her lack lustre in second ed. In first ed, she was fast and vicious, manoeuvering into position; hitting with a gatling trigger, then flying out of the way. Her combination of fantastic mobility and damage output made her my master of choice, despite her being a henchman!

 

Now I'm finding her falling short compared to the other masters. It feels like Ramos, Colette and even Mei Feng just seem to be better at achieving strategies and schemes.

 

It's important to add that I don't proxy - I am holding my breath waiting for the Oxford Mages and the Captain - and I often use the Malifaux Child and Grab and Drop with raptors to litter scheme tokens; I know what I'm doing! I just feel like I'm missing something when I compare her to other masters. I tend to find that she lacks heavy hitters, and unless I take the unreliable Rail Golem, I always seem to populate my crew with weak models that I can't rely on. 

 

So what do you all do to make Kaeris as successful as Ramos, Colette, etc?

 

Grantt

[Whut]

If you lack heavy hitters, what is stopping you from taking Joss, Johan, etc?

[decker_cky]

I consider large arachnids to be pretty core to her, since they take advantage of free scheme markers (turn 1 dropped markers generally aren't needed for your schemes, boosting even turn 2 charges), put out some flaming attacks on triggers, and later eat enemy schemes or their own scrap to be a pretty solid melee piece.

 

Not having firestarter is the only part of her crew that I think is REALLY important to proxy, since it sets up a lot of her abilities. 

[Grantt]

I would use Joss/Howard/etc, but I feel that points would be better spent getting something that works with the burning synergy. And if I'm taking Joss & Howard, why don't I just take Ramos?

 

It's the same with the Large Arachnids; I can set up a similar situation with Union Miners, forget the burning part, and take another master. 

 

I guess what I'm trying to work out is what makes her a better choice than the others (obviously situational). 

 

Destroying the enemy: Mei Feng

Running Schemes: Colette/Ramos

Defending: Ramos

 

I can't quite work out what Kaeris is good at. 

[Grantt]

Obviously, each master can comfortably take on each role; I'm just listing what I think they're particularly excellent at. 

[Dafty]

Whats Wrong with the Rail Golem? Seems hitty enough. also Gunslingers Do work when things are on fire.

[Whut]

You don't have to have burning synergy on absolutely EVERYTHING. Firestarter is enough to fuel Kaeris when she needs it. With one or two more models that can do some Burning stuff, you should be okay. Fire or Metal gamin would be my choice, though I'm not a Kaeris player. Also I like the upgrade on her to give her the trigger to push enemies 3". For Squatters you can push someone off of a marker. In Turf War, activate Kaeris last in the turn and push a model or two away from the Turf Marker. Those are strats for which missing out on  VP just once could lose you the game, because its so easy for your opponent to get.

Also personally, I hate Gunslingers. Even with the     to the attack flip, doing 2/3/whoCares damage is not a good investment for 7 stones in my opinion. The fast is difficult to obtain, and being able to choose your trigger costs you the     . You may get more milage out of it, but I'd rather go for a December Acolyte

[Dafty]

but on 3 cards you ignore cover and have a better chance for those triggers....which can and do increase over all damage out put

[decker_cky]

You don't have to have burning synergy on absolutely EVERYTHING. Firestarter is enough to fuel Kaeris when she needs it. With one or two more models that can do some Burning stuff, you should be okay. Fire or Metal gamin would be my choice, though I'm not a Kaeris player. Also I like the upgrade on her to give her the trigger to push enemies 3". For Squatters you can push someone off of a marker. In Turf War, activate Kaeris last in the turn and push a model or two away from the Turf Marker. Those are strats for which missing out on  VP just once could lose you the game, because its so easy for your opponent to get.

Also personally, I hate Gunslingers. Even with the     to the attack flip, doing 2/3/whoCares damage is not a good investment for 7 stones in my opinion. The fast is difficult to obtain, and being able to choose your trigger costs you the     . You may get more milage out of it, but I'd rather go for a December Acolyte

 

Yup. Firestarter and/or malifaux child should be enough to deal with all the burning you need.  For the rest...Kaeris doesn't *really* need burning. She's better as a mid-range support model than as a damage dealer. 

[kross1]

Gunsmiths are really good, and it's really easy to get fast with them any ram spent on defense will give them fast. It's "after resolving" that's win or lose, if you have a ram you get fast. The only thing they struggle against are incorporeal models. They should be on the flanks taking out scheme runners, and scheming when they get a chance. If you want damage take advantage of the experimental trigger and focus. Super easy with fast. Move, focus, shoot.

[katadder]

have only used her once but she seems better at crowd control than some of our others. threw her into the middle of a fight setting fire to everything including my own which obviously did lots of burning damage and opened up the positives for her supporting gunsmiths after she pushes everything away

[mythicFOX]

I've been playing her regularly for the last six months or so.  

 

She has access to a lot of board control; G&D and Blinding Flame. This makes her good at strategies like; Squatter's Rights, Headhunter, and Guard the Stash. She's also no slouch in Turf War either. 

 

Burning and shoving people into Flame pillars allow her to kill without taking credit, which is useful in games with; Frame for Murder and Headhunter. 

 

Kaeris can also play very defensively, healing and blocking LOS with Purifying Flame. This makes her useful in games where you need to keep people alive (Bodyguard, Murder Protégé, Entourage). While Ramos is very good in defence there are plenty of games where he's a poor choice;  Reckoning, Headhunter, Collect the Bounty, Make Them Suffer.

 

I'll be the first to admit there's a lot of cross over between Ramos and Kaeris crews, which is fine thematically. On more than one occasion I've got half way through building a crew before I decided who was going to lead it.

 

For big hitters I'd use Howard and Joss mostly, also don't forget how good models like the Cerberus are.

[doubledragon]

I was having the same problem with Kaeris.

Even had a similar thread on here a while ago.

Since then, after some good suggestions from fellow gamers on the thread and some games, this a crew for Kaeris that I'm finding works pretty well in most situations. I'm also not one for proxies. The only proxy in here is the firestarter, cos he sets up so much for Kaeris.

Kaeris:

Powered by flame

Purifying flame

Firestarter:

Imbued energies

Johan:

Imbued energies

Gunsmith

Large arachnid

Large arachnid

Metal Gamin

Metal Gamin

Metal Gamin

The crew is surprisingly tough with plenty of healing. And puts out a whole lot of burning without even trying.

[Whut]

If you don't mind I'd like to derail this for just one second:
Are two large arachnids a good idea? I've always been wary of using two models that use the same resource (Two Large Arachnids > markers, two Rail Workers/flurry models > cards) as that may drain that resource too quickly. Do you ever run out of Scrap to fuel the spider? Or ever find that you are just barely out of range of a scrap marker that could have given you the bonus? Or most importantly, does it drain your hand of a potential severe card to try to get that Juicy 6 damage, because the 2/3 of low/moderate is very underwhelming on a 6 point model that is made for combat.

[doubledragon]

Large arachnids remove scheme markers too, not just scrap markers. Which is amazing.

They also have creative salvage, so they can potentially create scrap.

The fact that they can remove scheme markers alone makes taking more than one very worth while.

[Grantt]

I've actually considered buying another Ramos box and using the Brass Arachnids as LSA models purely because of that scheme removal & buff. Juicy!

 

DoubleDragonDYL, do you find mobility an issue with that crew? 

 

I'd like something that can keep up with Kaeris and provide some back up; I was disappointed with the Firestarter, because he just seemed to add to something Kaeris was already good at. I would have liked to have seen a combat flyer, as that would have seemed a little bit more interesting. Like a dragon, or something. (Yeah; ridiculous. I'm clearly wish listing now).  I know Firestarter sets up Immolate, Accelerant, Truth in Flame, etc, but it's just... Dull. And easily countered with anti-condition crew builds.

 

I guess Rail Golem... But his damage output is so lacklustre. Probably because with enough burning he can just keep doing it over and over and over... But that's easily prevented. Ugh. So many reasons to just use another master. I want Kaeris to be the optimal choice, but she just never seems to be. She's the fun master I take because I like her, not the master I take to win games. 

 

Don't get me wrong, that's a good enough reason to play her, it's just... I dunno. 

[decker_cky]

"Keep up with" Kaeris? What's she doing running ahead of anything? Kaeris wants to hang back and support her crew, until mid-late game when she jumps into the fray. 

 

How is rail golem easily prevented? He's solid overall (solid damage track, Ml5 with   is very reliable in terms of hitting). In a kaeris crew, his burning is essentially not a concern (early game I tend to have some Kaeris actions to burn - pun intended - so he gets charged beyond being worried about it). 

[Grantt]

I find that without the burning (which can be removed by most condition removal tactics) the Rail Golem is not worth his points compared to other models. I disagree that his damage track is solid for a model of his points cost. 

 

Also, as most of her crew consists of 4-6 ss cost models, by the time she gets to them to offer said support, they've disappeared and been replaced with a group of enemy models, which Kaeris has difficulties removing on her own. Hence wanting a heavy hitting model with her level of mobility. 

 

I'm probably making poor choices with her during the game, I admit. But, again, compared to other masters, she seems disappointing. 

[Sybarite]

Miss step is very mobile

[doubledragon]

I also find the Rail Golem lack luster for his points. Purely because I find his performance from game to game inconsistent. Howard is much better for the points in my opinion. And if the powered by flame upgrade is around, he's great with Kaeris. I also find the combination of a metal Gamin giving Johan df6 and his flurry enough to take on any big hitters your opponent may have. And if they've been softened up by the gunsmith from a distance, even easier.

The crew I posted earlier isn't the fastest, but when they get where they need to be, they'll sit there for some time. If I need them to be faster, I'll swap purifying flame for wings of fire. That list works really well for turf war, squatters rights and reconnoiter.

The trick with Kaeris is to know when to do what. She fills both support and offensive roles well. Some turns she'll support, others she'll jump into the fray, as Decker has mentioned.

[bertmac]

Puzzelled by people not getting good use out of rail golem. Aim him at an opponent with df 5 or less and they die if you have 2 4+ tomes in hand. Also takes more damage to kill than hank due to extra armour.

Kaeris is a jack of all trades she can soak up damage block lines of fire heal and deal some out too. She tends to support the crew turns 1-3 then swoop off and complete schemes or if needs be into the middle of the enemy crew and just take a lot of killing!

Fast gunsmiths with kaeris are easy flare to hand out burning cheat or flip rams for defense also gets them a point of regen at the end of the turn with purifying flame.

[decker_cky]

Fast gunsmiths with kaeris are easy flare to hand out burning cheat or flip rams for defense also gets them a point of regen at the end of the turn with purifying flame.

 

Or if you have a low tome, you can light a pair of them up (or one and a burning on a rail golem). If you have grab and drop, lighting them on fire can let them fly up to  a good vantage point for shooting throughout the game too.