Viktorias vs Sonnia Criid

[Argentbadger]

I'm looking for advice on how the Viktorias could play well against Sonnia Criid.

First, a little background.  I love Malifaux, and generally do fairly well in tournaments on the UK scene.  My friend Furycat has never got much into Malifaux, but is a skilled player of other wargames.  Lately I started playing Sonnia and Furycat offered to give me some games to try and get his interest in this game and allow me to play around with various permutations of Sonnia crews.  In order to reduce the effect of the skill differential, we've decided to give him a few more points to play with so that I can try out all my best moves without just destroying him in every game.

 

Last night, we played a game with 40SS for me and 45SS for him.  The strategy was Reckoning, the scheme pool was A Line in the Sand, Assassinate, Take Prisoner, Plant Evidence and Breakthrough.  The board is a fairly densely packed village with a few hedges scattered in gaps and a forest slightly outside my deployment zone.

 

Outcasts:  Viktoria of Ashes (some upgrades that I didn't note), Viktoria of Blood (more upgrades that I didn't note), Taelor (Oathkeeper), 3 Ronin, Student of Conflict, Convict Gunslinger

Guild:  Sonnia Criid (Reincarnation), The Judge, Papa Loco, Death Marshall, 2 Witchling Stalkers, Austringer

 

Turn 1:  Things moved up, mostly hiding behind houses in the case of the Outcasts.  Critically one Ronin moves up as far as she can and tucks in behind a hedge.  Papa Loco hands Sonnia some dynamite with Hold This then saunters into the forest, pursued by the Death Marshall who Pine Boxes the old chap.  The Judge pulls Sonnia forward with Stand For Judgement.  Sonnia is able to use Confiscated Lore for extra Ca, focus, stone in the Tome for Consuming Flame and then vapourise the poor exposed Ronin.  The trail of blasts leads off behind a house where another Ronin and Taelor are lurking.  This sets them ablaze, so the 3rd AP is used to repeat the trick on the now-burning Ronin.  Both Ronin burn to death in the end phase, though only the first is close enough to turn into a Witchling Stalker.

 

Turn 2:  One of the Viktorias is in view of Sonnia (presumably so she could charge in and wreak some havok), but I win the initiative.  Sonnia then carpet bombs the rest of the Outcast crew who are trying to negotiate the village to get into a spot where they can effectively kill me.  Furycat concedes as he's got almost nothing left.

 

So my query is: how would you play this crew to avoid the heavy blasts from Sonnia?  I had thought that with the large amount of cover available things might be in favour of a short-ranged crew like the one Furycat picked, but it only served to bunch up the Outcasts.  Indeed, after the first attack to set up the burning train, the rest of the attacks from Sonnia were even easier to use thanks to Visions of Flame.  I am aware that killing everything is not necessarily the object in Malifaux, but it is hard to score your own points after being hammered so hard in the early turns.

 

Lets stick with the following assumptions:

 

That there was enough terrain on the board (if anything, there was more than I often see in UK tournaments)

That Furycat was committed to using the Viktorias for some reason, or at least that he couldn't have predicted seeing Sonnia in particular (because I know that taking All The Freikorps would be a possible solution here)

That I know that neither crew is particularly tailored to the strategy and scheme pool (I'm testing the limits on a few things and Furycat was playing with pieces he found entertaining)

 

Thanks for your suggestions!

[SpiralngCadavr]

My best experience against Sonnia is having even a single decent ranged piece to force my opponent to worry about her rather poor DF so she can't run amok and fire without worrying about retaliation (trapper's probably the best option here). Hannah is also a piece that would do pretty well against her, being friekorps and stripping suits, who's a pretty strong piece even without those abilities.

 

Other than that, all I can offer is to spread out thoroughly and hug cover, though that isn't always going to work anyway. I haven't played against her with loco, but other than that, I've had pretty good experience with some decent range and just closing on her, piling on with target saturation, or avoiding her LOS and fighting her goons.

[The Godlyness]

Out activate her force her to walk forward suck up one hit launches viks down her throat. This is turn 1. Turn 2 win int and crush face. Or lose int suck up hits burn stones and survive. Then kill.

You are going to take losses. Come to terms with that.

But 3 ronin? Ehhh?

Also Nix with hollow.

[Bengt]

Sisters in Spirit and Synchronized Slaying on Ashes lets you start the turn in hiding, walk, spirit out Blood where she has LoS, and Accomplice to blood so she can charge without letting your opponent activate.

 

Also as Godlyness says, 3 Ronin is rarely optimal. While they are perfectly fine 6 SS models, most of the time you want something cheaper. 

[Adran]

After you know you are playing Sonnia, don't clump to much.

Plce your models to not let her get line of sight easily.

Be prepared to cheat strongly to prevent burning, or to use AP to remove burning from the model before Sonnia activates. (Or if burning is too high, run the model well away from the rest of your crew)

If you can make sonnia have to walk twice to get LOS, then she is much less scary. And also probably in place to be horribly cut up.

 

Personally I like having some form of missle force that can engage sonnia for turns 2 and 3. even if it dies, it normally gives me the initiative. Not all crews are buitl for this, and not all players are comfortable "throwing away" an expensive figure on this. Me, I can happily lose my master on this job.

[MasterDisaster]

Sue.... Nuff said. Sue's anti Ca protection can be really valuable in these circumstances. It'll help mitigate a lot of Sonnia's firepower. Other suggestions above are also really good. 

 

As for 3 Ronin... NO WAY. 2 Ronin + Johan! For the same cost as a Ronin you get 8 Wds, Condition removal, HtK and a Relic Hammer... I'm sorry but screw Ronin!   Johan can easily remove the burning preventing Sonnia from getting all blasty without LoS and of course prevent those summons. 

 

I also consider Survivalist on Ashes and a Freikorps Librarian (+ Oathkeaper as optional backup) a pretty potent combo with the Viks. The healing potential across the crew is insane. 

[SuperFly TNT]

Ronin are decent but really do better against more Melee-centric forces.

 

I'd throw in some Friekorps guys if available as their suits ignore &  . Trapper and Librarian would be my suggestions. Johan as mentioned is another decent choice at 6ss as he adds condition removal.

 

With only 4 Df  Sonnia is fragile, so I'd look for a chance to strike first. A typical slingshot set up can get Vik of Blood into the enemy's deployment on Turn 1 w/ 3 melee attacks (4 if the target has moved out of deployment) @  to both attack and damage. In one game of Viks vs. Sonnia, I had Sonnia down to 1 wound on the first turn even after ss for damage prevention on every attack. 

 

You're not always going to get a clear charge lane but as other have mentioned, Sisters in Spirit can maneuver your pieces into position from cover. 

[SuperFly TNT]

Also, perhaps a Hodgepodge Effigy. He's only 4ss & his Mist action provides   4 soft cover. If you're in the Mist and Sue's Man in Black , it would be    to Sonnia. Focus and/or a target with Wp 6 would negate it but you're cutting into her advantage at least, though you still have to deal with CA 7 or 9. 

 

He's also a construct so Vanessa can use Command Construct on him.

[Sancho of Rime]

As a vik usual, I can feel his annoyance. One of the important things is to remember that the viks always need each other. Order of operations is very important in a vik crew. With the different hand sizes you need for them to get positive flips, you also gotta watch your hand. The ronin are great, they'll just need to spread out and make use of their defensive stance. Even though their gun isn't great, if you're already in melee with a stalker they can always Daito next target then shoot the stalker and hope it does not chase. On turn 1 taelor is going to want to activate early so that she can use welcome to malifaux. That way she can start punishing new stalkers sooner (which is why I always give her Talley sheet when I'm fighting..... Well anything that summons. Its a 3ft diameter soulstone against Leveticus.)

[Sancho of Rime]

Oh! Also taelor's hammerfall(?) is awesome for getting those little stalkers away aswell as maybe killing them. Haven't had much experience against death Marshalls. My friendly neighborhood Sonia player never uses them.

[Argentbadger]

Thanks, there is some good advice in here.

 

One thing I would note is that condition (burning) removal is not the issue here.  I'm not using the particularly using the burning from other models to light the way for Sonnia.  Rather, I would pick a relatively exposed piece and set it ablaze (stoning the tome if needed), then trail the blasts to where I want the next chain to start.  So although Johan is indeed a wonderful piece, he wouldn't be needed for Rebel Yell.

[EnternalVoid]

Something else to remember about Sonnia's chain blasts is LOS from the target.  While Sonnia does not need LOS to where the blasts are placed, if the original target cannot get LOS to those touching the 50mm markers then they are not affected *per page 50 in the bullet on the bottom left corner*.  So if that exposed model is out and in the open even if the blast markers can wrap around a building corner, if your models don't have LOS to each other they are not going to get hit.  So things that can block LOS can also be your friend in some cases.

[default_108]

I usually like to keep Vanessa chilling in the back (all the better if you get Bodyguard) and have her do healing.  So as long as Sonnia doesn't get you in one turn you might be able to hold out.  I have more experience playing her with Lilith but the melee focus is similar.  Avoid clumping, move in fast, and stab her in the friggin face.  Alot.  

[CapnBloodbeard]

Not having played against Sonnia, and only played 2 games as Viks (still haven't figured them out yet), I wonder if just trying to survive the first attack is really all you need.  Even using SS to prevent damage.  Survive that and you're hopefully in range to kill or seriously wound on the next activation.

 

There's also burning a SS to reflip on activation (depends on what card was, of course)