daniello_s Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 ... then what kind of model would it be? Would it be another beatstick or maybe some support model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11th Thunder Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I would be tempted to make her a gun bunny to set her apart from the other sisters, but giving a sniper sister feels like it is patching one of the crews intended weaknesses. I would probably go with a tanky type model high on armour but low on defense. In an ideal world I would love to see an upgrade for Taelor and Rusty Alice that can make them sisters, but that would probably be very powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 IDK... Sister kinda' means sister. You've got Viktoria (the original) and Vanessa (her actual sister), then Doppelganger Viktoria (close enough) and the Student of Conflict (part of the family, if no blood ties). I already find the temp Sister enough of a stretch. I'd much prefer a model that runs well with the Viks and is tailored to run with them, than have another model with the Sister tag. The more Sisters you have, the more difficult it is to balance Fates Entwined and the various Sisters buffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregon Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'd go for a movement/push(/buff) sister with either very weak attack options or a Sh option of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 IDK... Sister kinda' means sister. You've got Viktoria (the original) and Vanessa (her actual sister), then Doppelganger Viktoria (close enough) and the Student of Conflict (part of the family, if no blood ties). I already find the temp Sister enough of a stretch. I'd much prefer a model that runs well with the Viks and is tailored to run with them, than have another model with the Sister tag. The more Sisters you have, the more difficult it is to balance Fates Entwined and the various Sisters buffs. Mostly this. I mean if you added a Sister model it almost had to have rules that doesn't benefit much from the buffs, so no Ml actions or something, which would kind of defeat the purpose. I think it would kind of funny to have a synergistic model that is an actual blood sister who has some beef with Ashes so she doesn't get the Sister tag. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesy Blue Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 i like Bengt's idea. how about a Sister from the Guild Faction, Velma, Mercenary but cannot be hired by a crew led by a Viktoria. she's the goody two shoes younger sister who had to stay behind and be ridiculed and shunned as she was related to one of the most notorious outlaws in Malifaux; swore to make her elder sister(s) pay for their crimes by any means. a Rare 1 Enforcer Guild Marshall, a pair of average guns that she can also use in melee and she can always choose to count as a friendly Sister when it's to her advantage (would have to be worded better to not cause confusion). her special ability would be, let's call it "The Chase Is On!": When an enemy model is Pushed, you may choose to Push this model 4" towards the enemy model. This way you can keep up with the Viktoria sling shot tactics. say 8ss cost, give her one less on every Viktoria stat (except charge, bring that way down to like 5). thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregon Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 A sister model with no synergy with any other sister model and explicitly cannot be hired into a sister crew is one of the worst ideas I've heard in quite a long time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniello_s Posted January 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Maybe that wouldn't be a Sister model... Maybe that would be a Brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiralvorkraft Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I actually like it a lot more than adding another sister to the Viks crew. The sisters are nuts enough as-is, any more will either end up duplicating the roles that the existing sisters play, or filling in the weaknesses that the crew desperately needs to remain balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I think that there is some design space left for models for the Viktoria's crew, but I definitely agree that there is no reason to make another model with the 'Sister' tag. Every sister you put on the table increases the power of the Vik's buffs exponentially, and I personally think that they are just about right on the money right now, with a maximum of 4 sisters. I also think that anything that buffs the Viktoria's movement or killing power is a poor idea; they are already one of the fastest leaders with probably the highest damage output in the game. I think that, if you wanted to add something else to the Vik's crew, you should look at things that directly counter them, namely crews that can trivially remove Viktoria of Blood from range. Looking at you, Pig-a-Pault. Something like the Smoke Screen ability off of Ten Thunder's Smoke Grenades upgrade, or even an aura that grants Perfect Silence would be alright. The Viktorias tend to play a very, very binary game. They kill whatever they touch, and they can more or less touch whatever they want, but in turn, they die to any kind of serious effort from the opponent. That is why most games with them tend to be landslides in one way or another; the real game is both players trying to control how big of a chunk the Viks will take out of the opponent's crew. Unfortunately, there are a lot of things out there that can chunk a sister from *extreme* range. While I know I have a bit of a hate-on for the PaP, I'm also going to put them on the list of masters I can't play against Ten Thunders if there is even a single decent vantage point, because I don't honestly see how I can keep them alive against the Shenlong Sniper Squad (2x Katanaka Snipers, 2x Freikorps Trappers). Rasputina and Sonnia are both disadvantaged matchups because of their ability to shoot around corners, but at least they need to enter into slingshot range to do it, not to mention needing forward elements spotting for them. TL;DR: The Viktorias are already on the razor's edge of being unbalanced, the only buff I would give them is against extreme-ranged shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Max 5 with the temp sister. And yeah, I could see a model that favors ranged defense for them to be a niche that you could fill. Actually, there are a number of masters who have trouble with that-- a merc could be interesting, but, unfortunately, my best way to shut down some of said super-ranged lists is to shoot back, so maybe just another outcast non-merc. I don't think Outcasts have any abusive ranged lists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 i like Bengt's idea. Actually my idea was a "synergistic model that didn't have the Sister tag". Fluff wise she would be one of Viktoria's actual sisters, but have a chip on her shoulder and resent Viktoria enough to block the sympathetic magic enabling the whole capital S Sister stuff. She would still be an Outcast, be visually tied to the Viks and have some synergy with them. The whole point would be to add something to the Viks that was compelling from both fluff and game play PoV without breaking the Sister balance. I don't know what she should do, but as long as it's something already available in the faction but slightly different I don't thing it would break anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 And yeah, I could see a model that favors ranged defense for them to be a niche that you could fill. Actually, there are a number of masters who have trouble with that-- a merc could be interesting, but, unfortunately, my best way to shut down some of said super-ranged lists is to shoot back, so maybe just another outcast non-merc. I don't think Outcasts have any abusive ranged lists? I admittedly haven't gotten any table time with it yet (waiting for plastic Hamelin), but I've been toying with running a Hamelin hyper-shooting list. Irresistable dance is a pretty big bubble that just ruins the day of melee models, and he brings a pile of good ways to disengage your stuff and tie up their stuff. Convict Gunslingers, Lazarus, Vanessa, maybe Hans... Will report back with how good it ends up being. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seregon Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 A sister model without a Ml attack (say Sh only) would be able to benefit (and give) some basic movement tricks without being able to make their melee synergy any more bonkers. It's not as if the Viks can't get a bunch of really great shooting from Gunslingers, Sue, Trapper and Lazarus as is and there are plenty of masters who do movement tricks to both a far higher quality and quantity than the Viks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
default_108 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think a good ranged model with the sister tag and no melee action kind of negate the buff power (leaving only the healing and movement stuff). Something not so powerful, maybe even a mid-range with a shotgun or something. I just want another sister model cause I like themes. Same reason I want more Nephilim models or the same reason my brother wants more Witch Hunters for his Sonnia crew. Are they neccessary, not at all. But do I want them? Hell yes I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 You could make a doppleganger sister of Vanessa and put a hiring rule that they can't be in the same crew at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I like the idea of a sister with a chip on her shoulder. Maybe she could be a double edged sword - if she buffs, she reduces something else. +1Ml, -2" charge or something..... I dunno, a few possible ways to play it out that would still work thematically. Otherwise, I like the idea of the buff against shooting - so viks are still vulnerable, but at least they have a chance. Although Survivalist and Vanessa would help a lot already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think a good ranged model with the sister tag and no melee action kind of negate the buff power (leaving only the healing and movement stuff). Sisters in Battle give to all attack flips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
default_108 Posted January 28, 2015 Report Share Posted January 28, 2015 Oh crap, Bengt, you are correct sir. I was thinking it was a positive flip to melee attacks for some reason. Okay so a shooting model might be a bit powerful. Maybe keep it's damage profile rather low for a shooting model. Hm. Okay so that would rule out a caster based sister too....so I got nothing then lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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