January FAQ/errata

[Justin]

Discuss: http://wyrd-games.net/community/files/file/21-malifaux-2e-faq-errata/

 

It's worth noting I changed previously stated opinions about Consuming Flame/Violation of Magic after some careful reading and thinking. This is why only the FAQ is official.

[SpiralngCadavr]

The latter. It's in the rules, so all you need to do is say "I intend this to be exactly 1" away from your mini. Is this an acceptable distance?" It's just like saying "I'm stopping at my maximum melee range, is this distance good with you?"

[Myyrä]

The latter. It's in the rules, so all you need to do is say "I intend this to be exactly 1" away from your mini. Is this an acceptable distance?" It's just like saying "I'm stopping at my maximum melee range, is this distance good with you?"

Except that it usually doesn't matter to either player if the model is 2" or 1.99987" away in the case of maximum melee range.

Starting to argue about placing markers exactly 1" apart seems like a great way to make sure you don't have to play against that opponent ever again. In my opinion this is made even more true by the fact that Flame Wall also happens to do damage to models within 1". It would seem like the ability was not intended to be used as being able to do damage to models that don't move close to it themselves. You are of course free to play the game however you want, but to me it seems like a kind of a dick move.

[Tuttleboy]

But that's what happens because the rules say it happens. It's not being a douche, it's playing according to the rules. The rules allow premeasuring to facilitate this.

[Justin]

Except that it usually doesn't matter to either player if the model is 2" or 1.99987" away in the case of maximum melee range.

Starting to argue about placing markers exactly 1" apart seems like a great way to make sure you don't have to play against that opponent ever again. In my opinion this is made even more true by the fact that Flame Wall also happens to do damage to models within 1". It would seem like the ability was not intended to be used as being able to do damage to models that don't move close to it themselves. You are of course free to play the game however you want, but to me it seems like a kind of a dick move.

 

Technically, the player who is bringing up the imprecision of human measurement is the one arguing about whether a model is within 1" or within 0.99999", especially in a game with premeasuring.

 

I mean, if I pull out my tape measure, measure 1 inch, then place the model 1 inch away, then my opponent pulls out a pair of calipers to see if it was *really* 1 inch, well, I know who broke the game. And approaching it in that manner is an easy way to make all measurements basically unfeasible.

 

Sorry, I don't usually weigh in on stuff like this, it's just a line of argument that usually ends up going in circles.

 

Yes, it has been our intention that flame wall may be placed within 1" (i.e. exaclt 1" from) a model from the start of its design. The model has a whole turn to get away before the thing explodes and it's cool synergy with Samael. The "at least 1 inch" clause is purely there so you aren't picking up people's models to put flame walls underneath them, as that would be annoying.

[SpiralngCadavr]

edit: justin got there first... responding to tuttleboy tuttleboy.

 

 

 

Yeah, premeasuring and distance as public knowledge really eliminate the argument on distance.

 

There's a difference between "at least" and "more than," and I think reading the two as de facto the same is absurd.

 

There are some distances where it's too hard to tell, so you just need to go off of assumed information. For instance, if a model begins base to base, and is pushed an inch away, it's an inch away, whether or not you've gotten it exactly an inch away. I think it's far more in keeping with the rules to agree that the distance is correct than to break out calipers accurate to the micrometer to prove your opponent didn't properly place the model.

[Myyrä]

If you want to get all technical, the rules just say what happens if model is exactly 1" away from the marker. They don't actually offer any help in achieving that. Your opponent would not be breaking any rules if he said that the marker doesn't seem to be exactly 1" away from the model no matter where you place it. He would definitely be an ass, but in my opinion so would you.

Edit: This really isn't going anywhere. I will shut up now.

[Tuttleboy]

If you want to get all techical, the rules just say what happens if model is exactly 1" away from the marker. They don't actually offer any help in achieving that. Your opponent would not be breaking any rules if he said that the marker doesn't seem to be exactly 1" away from the model no matter where you place it. He would definitely be an ass, but in my opinion so would you.

Read Justin's post. He's a developer.

[The Godlyness]

Just so I am reading this correctly I can place Sonnia markers near people so thst they take damage?

Woo! More stuff in my tool box of win.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yep. It's not denial only.

[Csonti]

If you want to get all technical, the rules just say what happens if model is exactly 1" away from the marker. They don't actually offer any help in achieving that. Your opponent would not be breaking any rules if he said that the marker doesn't seem to be exactly 1" away from the model no matter where you place it. He would definitely be an ass, but in my opinion so would you.

Edit: This really isn't going anywhere. I will shut up now.

 

Since Justin has already stated the intent of the rules this is just a try to convince you why this is a good and working way.

 

If players could not accept that they can measure and place things in exact and accurate distances the game would just fall apart. For example how could you satisfy the description of Squeel without this? (ie. push this model 4" away - which means EXACTLY 4" away without hindering objects) The same is true for Wing Buffet and many, many other abilities and actions. So you can hardly be considered an ass to play the game as intended. 

And beside that there is already some official statement about this kind of placements. From the FAQ:

 

 

 

Q: If two models are in base to base contact, and an Ability pushes one of them exactly 3”

away, how much distance is considered to be in between the two models? Are they

considered to be within 3” of each other?

A: As base to base contact is considered to be exactly 0” apart, the models would be exactly

3” apart after the push and therefore still within 3” of each other.

[r4st4f4n]

Technically, the player who is bringing up the imprecision of human measurement is the one arguing about whether a model is within 1" or within 0.99999", especially in a game with premeasuring.

 

I mean, if I pull out my tape measure, measure 1 inch, then place the model 1 inch away, then my opponent pulls out a pair of calipers to see if it was *really* 1 inch, well, I know who broke the game. And approaching it in that manner is an easy way to make all measurements basically unfeasible.

 

Sorry, I don't usually weigh in on stuff like this, it's just a line of argument that usually ends up going in circles.

 

Yes, it has been our intention that flame wall may be placed within 1" (i.e. exaclt 1" from) a model from the start of its design. The model has a whole turn to get away before the thing explodes and it's cool synergy with Samael. The "at least 1 inch" clause is purely there so you aren't picking up people's models to put flame walls underneath them, as that would be annoying.

Actually, you don't have a whole turn at all to get away, if you had already activated when the Wall is placed 1" from you, and then Samael uses it to Witch Hunt you ignoring melee randomization. Given that the Malifaux Child can also cast a second Wall... D:

We too have been playing so that the Wall wasn't placed within the explosive range from the start, this is a big change, twice NASTY!...

[Uktena]

[SpectreEliteGaming]

I believe the "biggest ass" is the one who is willing to not play another player just because they take stern, uncompromising stances on rules. I am absolutely not ganging up on you - its just that I hear "if you do that then I am not playing anymore" from time to time, which makes me groan and say "so that means that you concede and I win right?"

To be fair, the gamestate situation does have two ways of looking at it and I definently see where you are coming from. I do the same as the other people - "my intention is to be exactly 3" away from your 2" engagement range so that you are engaged with me but I am not, with you" and that intention absolutely outweighs "precise measurement." My intention is to always push the rules to the limit - your bag of tricks is the biggest and you have the most area to move in - otherwise you are just handicapping yourself to be "nice." If you want to be nice buy them a drink at the pub afterwards - they'll always play with you then

Super cool FAQ - really appreciate the constant updates.

As far as I know, the Egg Hauler is a slop hauler, the war rooster is a war pig, and the gremlinette is a hog whisperer - correct me if I'm wrong. Suffice to say, I can't see anyone arguing your uses for these models in that fashion.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Yeah, the only ones they changed were the Hanging Trees and the dead Death Marshals- I believe everything else stays as what it was.

 

And yeah, unless there's a question as to whether a model had the movement or range to do something, I always favor intention over exact distance.

[Justin]

I think the exact measurement issue is about dead.

 

And yeah, there are only clarifications in the FAQ about special edition models which changed what they represent.

[decker_cky]

As far as I know, the Egg Hauler is a slop hauler, the war rooster is a war pig, and the gremlinette is a hog whisperer - correct me if I'm wrong. Suffice to say, I can't see anyone arguing your uses for these models in that fashion.

 

The war rooster is now presumably....a war rooster (though it needs to be rebased).

[Ludvig]

I like the latest ruling on Sonnia, I think it's a good step towards clarifying timing. I am also shocked that the intent was for Samael to use burn them out from Sonnias placed firewall. Me and everyone I know playing Sonnia has just assumed that the specific mention of 1" from other stuff was to specifically disallow that interaction.

[Seregon]

The main problem is for me that the rule is a bit shoddily written. If you want to allow for a placement of a marker that isn't on top of a model, it's far clearer to simply write that the marker may "not touch another model". "at least 1"" rather suggests that it is more than one inch away.

It also makes me wonder what other actions/abilities are written in a similar way that are meant to have a combo with something else.

 

In essence, the fewer instances of "I'll place this marker/model with the intent of being exactly 2,0000000000" away" or "just so that it exactly blocks the LoS" combos that exist, the better. Those things make for a less transparent game in my mind, especially for new players.

 

At least Sonnia will usually have to choose between entirely blocking the LoS of a model or leave some room for Hopkins to shoot, which means the model can shoot back and that the Sonnia player can make a tactical mistake.

[The Godlyness]

Or if they are all ready burning just see though the flame pillars and give you more burning

[hypoking]

So does mean a model with a 3'' melee can charge rusty?

[Justin]

So does mean a model with a 3'' melee can charge rusty?

 

Core Rulebook, pg. 40, within callout box: When an Action states that an object must be within a distance, if any portion of that object's base is at that distance or closer it is considered within the stated distance.

 

So if two models are EXACTLY 3" away from each other...they are within 3" of each other which, to me, just makes sense.

 

Rusty Alyce, Snares: Enemy models may not end a Charge within aura3.

 

So enemy models may not end a charge exactly 3" away from, or closer to, Rusty Alyce.

 

Which means all enemy charges must end further than 3" from Rusty Alyce.

[moxypoo]

So does mean a model with a 3'' melee can charge rusty?

That's how we've always played it for what it's worth.  I think the new ruling supports this as well.

 

 

Edit: Justin Ninja'ed me and I was wrong!  Thanks for the explanation.

[The Godlyness]

One model can reliably charge rusty. Lilitu!

But a monkey style TT bro can also. That's it.

[Myyrä]

One model can reliably charge rusty. Lilitu!

But a monkey style TT bro can also. That's it.

And Waldgeist and about a dozen things that can ignore her aura.

[The Godlyness]

Psh I said reliably.