Anselmus Posted December 18, 2014 Report Share Posted December 18, 2014 Hi there, had my first game of M2E last night. I played (apart from other models) Colette and a Coryphee Duet. Since Corlette has 3 APs is it possible to cast Prompt three times on the Duet and make it attack three times out of its actual activation? This seems kind of overpowered. Gtx A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 rgarbonzo Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Engagement is for 4 primary purposes in the rules disengaging strikes, firing attacks into engagement, charges can not be made while engaged, and engaged models cannot take attacks. Paralyzed models have no engagement range therefore enemy models can charge another model, make attacks against other models, they can walk away without provoking a disengaging strike, and any model firing a attack at the paralyzed model will not have to flip for randomization. A 0" range is just that, 0", meaning the models' engagement range is now 0" as well (pg 48 little rule book, 1st paragraph, 1st sentence). The FAQ established that BTB is 0" so it is possible to attack with a paralyzed model that is in BTB with an enemy model, but a model that is in BTB can walk away without provoking a disengaging strike. (paralyzed models do not make disengaging strikes as they are not considered engaged pg 62 little rule book) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 asrian Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 One side point of contention to your statement, Rgarbonzo. A ------> B, C Target B is paralyzed (0 engagement range) Target C (my guy) has a 1" or 2" engagement and is close enough to be engaged with Target B. Target A fires at Target B, who doesn't have an engagement range, but is still inside of Target C's engagement, then I'd still have to randomize as I understand the rules. The same would hold true if Target B had a 1" engagement (not paralyzed) and was 2" away from Target C (who has a 2" engagement). Both are still randomized as C is engaged with B and still within 2" for randomization. If I'm incorrect about this, by all means correct me so I don't confuse the issue for others, or myself in future games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Yes ofc If two models have and are both with each others and one gets paralyzed then you would still randomize as they are both engaged. But Rgarbonzo was stating that if a model with a was paralyzed and in BtB with a model that does not have a there would be no randomization since neither model is engaged. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 kmdl1066 Posted December 22, 2014 Report Share Posted December 22, 2014 Engagement is for 4 primary purposes in the rules disengaging strikes, firing attacks into engagement, charges can not be made while engaged, and engaged models cannot take attacks. Paralyzed models have no engagement range therefore enemy models can charge another model, make attacks against other models, they can walk away without provoking a disengaging strike, and any model firing a attack at the paralyzed model will not have to flip for randomization. A 0" range is just that, 0", meaning the models' engagement range is now 0" as well (pg 48 little rule book, 1st paragraph, 1st sentence). The FAQ established that BTB is 0" so it is possible to attack with a paralyzed model that is in BTB with an enemy model, but a model that is in BTB can walk away without provoking a disengaging strike. (paralyzed models do not make disengaging strikes as they are not considered engaged pg 62 little rule book) The stink of newbie is still strong on me, so I'm probably wrong, but here goes. What am I missing? The paralyzed model may not be engaging the non-paralyzed model but the non-paralyzed model is almost certainly engaging the paralyzed model. (How many models have no attack at all?) Page 48 tells us that engagement goes both ways. So both models are engaged with each other due to the non-paralyzed model's engagement. II'm not seeing anything in your statement that says the non-paralyzed model does not have a attack, so assuming that the non-paralyzed model has a attack, going down the bullet points on pg 48 an I right in the following understanding: The non-paralyzed model can walk away without provoking a disengaging strike because the paralyzed model has an override on the normal exactly at x is within x to say the paralyzed model has no engagement range at all. Shooting at either the paralyzed or non-paralyzed model will require randomization because they're both engaged, courtesy of the non-paralyzed model. The non-paralyzed model cannot charge because it is engaged due to "goes both ways." The non-paralyzed model cannot make attacks because it is engaged due to "goes both ways." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 Assuming the non-paralyzed model has a attack that's within range, you are correct. There are certainly models which do not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Adran Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 I agree on the engagement rule, but it says that Melee Attack range (///) becomes 0, not engagement range(engagement becomes just "no"). Do you hit someone in Btb, if your attack has a range of 0? And, most important to me, why isn't ranged attack impeded by the paralysis as well(assuming it actually impedes a melee attack, Btb questioning aside)? Because the rules don't tell us to impede attacks. (if you want my personal opinion, the reason it reduces claw attacks to 0 inches is to stop a paralysed model being able to stop another model moving. It wasn't because of looking at interactions with Obey and such and thinking "well, its ok to shoot just not to let them use a sword". And since have many more down sides than that they gain this slight advanatge probably doesn't matter very much). Ruleswise, the only rules about are that they are used to determine engagement range and make disengaging strikes. I'd always played it that the text at the end of paralysed was a reminder that at range 0" you can't hit anything, but accept that a model in base contact is 0" away, and nothing says that it can't be obeyed to make that attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Math Mathonwy Posted December 23, 2014 Report Share Posted December 23, 2014 This has been happening to me quite regularly with Paralyzed Pouncing models, btw, so it isn't like it is a complete edge case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 It would have been vastly simpler if Paralyzed just prevented the affected model from taking any Actions at all. With so many ways for models to act outside of their Activation, it becomes a confusing mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 I disagree, I think it is quite clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Kadeton Posted December 24, 2014 Report Share Posted December 24, 2014 It's not ambiguous, if that's what you mean. It's perfectly possible to reach a logical interpretation that is supported by all the rules. However, the presence of this and similar threads serves as a good indication that it's not at all 'clear'. The rules should not just be able to be figured out, they should make intuitive sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Anselmus
Hi there,
had my first game of M2E last night. I played (apart from other models) Colette and a Coryphee Duet.
Since Corlette has 3 APs is it possible to cast Prompt three times on the Duet and make it attack three times out of its actual activation?
This seems kind of overpowered.
Gtx
A
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Dirial
Come on, those two hit like girls. (Actually, that figure of speech might mean something totally different in Malifaux.)
Dirial
Well, if he was paralyzed, he had no melee range, and thus cannot attack. Colette could have prompted him to interact or move, but not to attack.
Barnaberible
In a game I had Colette prompted Howard Langston to decapitate 34ss worth of my models in one activation. I wouldn't have minded so much but he was paralysed at the time! And what did Colette do, she
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