hiredgun Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 I was reading Crossroads and noticed that C.Hoffman and his brother Ryle are Guild, but have M&SU printed on their cards. Is that for storyline ,or does that have gameplay aspects as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rythos42 Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Some gameplay - Johan(na) can heal M&SU models. I think that's about it right now though. But if you're playing that Ersatz Henchman format you could choose M&SU and hire Ryle (not as your leader...this format confuses me...). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Well, both, actually. They are part of (or at least associated with) Ramos' organization in the fluff. Thus, Hoffmann can take Arcanist M&SU constructs in Guild. Also, Johan will get his boni near them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Johan will get his boni near them. Is that.. A boner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Is that.. A boner?It's Latin for bonuses. Not sure why he is speaking Latin though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 It's Latin for bonuses. Not sure why he is speaking Latin though. Hang up from German. The word bonus has the Latin plural in German. I just forgot for a moment that the English speakers just add an s to a Latin word and call it done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiredgun Posted October 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Well, both, actually. They are part of (or at least associated with) Ramos' organization in the fluff. Thus, Hoffmann can take Arcanist M&SU constructs in Guild. Also, Johan will get his boni near them. But,as an Arcanist, can I hire Guild constructs? I have been told no... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ramos helped Hoffman get going once he came through the Breach, because he wanted an inside man, and they could actually be fielded together in 2-master games in the last edition. I believe Hoffman basically trusts Ramos but doesn't really help him. IIRC, they used to have a lot of overlap in terms of what each could take from the other's associated construct list. In 2e gameplay, there's Hoffman's option to take Arcanist minis, and there was talk of avatar upgrades down the line allowing more cross-faction options (such as Ramos taking guild constructs and Sonnia taking fire gamin). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rythos42 Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Arcanists cannot hire Guild constructs. (except that when Avatar's come out again, there might be an option for Ramos to do so). Guild (Hoffman) can hire Arcanist constructs through the Upgrade "Arcanist Assets". (But none of that has to do with the "M&SU" keyword. All that keyword gets you is the two Johan interactions, this other stuff is other stuff that happens through other rules). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brdparker Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Can't Levi hire all constructs through the right upgrade? Now, the question then comes, do any of those have M&SU-specific abilities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 Can't Levi hire all constructs through the right upgrade? Now, the question then comes, do any of those have M&SU-specific abilities?I'm fairly sure none of them have any such abilities or actions. The only model that could directly benefit from M&SU keyword in Levi crew is Johan(na). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHTHATER Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Ok theres some speculation here, but RISING POWERS page 102-103 and 113 C.Hoffman and Ryles pages says (basically I'll sum up)... Ryle Hoffman while attending Oxford on earth side was basically a engineering and design protege. His concepts were so good they got the attention of Ramos on the other side of the breach. Ramos wanted Ryle to come through the breach and study under him. Ryle was solely responsible for the care of his weaker brother C. Hoffman (who suffered from crippling paralysis from polio) and could not leave him behind. Ramos said both of you come through, with the M&SU's resources and infinite possibilities of Malifaux, Ramos was sure him and Ryle could help C.Hoffman. On the trip through the breach raw aether (some sort of magic I guess) bombarded the 2 and destroyed Ryles body and damaged his mind along with almost killing him. It unlocked C.Hoffman "inner genius" and made him smarter and magically about to connect with machines. Although Ramos was able to save Ryles life (for a time) by turning him into a cyborg basically, his mind still was not all it was and Ramos life saving was only a temporary save. C. Hoffman and Ryle went to the guild for more resources to save Ryle life for far longer. As for the guilds take on "it" they are happy to take C.Hoffman and Ryle in, to get people inside the Arcanists. It doesn't say how Ryle and C.Hoffman feel about being used by the Guild. Although it explains why Ramos trusts them as M&SU, he probably thinks they are really Arcanists "using" the guild. Basically that sums up the question. Nighthater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Thats not quite how I remember the story. C.Hoffman was smart, but not quite in the league with his brother, who was good at everything. Ryl;e was coming through to work with Ramos, and bringing his brother along. C.Hoffman blamed the Arcanisst for the Train Wreck that he thinks caused his brothers mental crippling (rather than the trip through the breech, which actually caused it), and is thankful to Ramos and the M and SU for their help in saving Ryle. When the guild arrived, C. Hoffman joined them to hunt down Arcanists. To the best of my knowledge, C.Hoffman is yet to realise that Ramos and the arcanists (well certainly the machine altering ones he is determined to hunt down) are the same. He still seems friendly with Ramos, hence being allowed to borrow some of his tools. This has never been reciprocated, but its possible that Hoffman either doesn't feel he could misuse Guild property like that, or Ramos has never asked. And whilst I expect Lucius to have twigged the link between Ramos and Hoffman, the general public view that Ramos is a fine upstanding memeber of Malifaux still seems to be what the guiild sees. There is less interaction with the M&SU charactristic at the moment than there used to be. It currently allows Johan to heal, Hoffman to hire and a few upgrades to be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHTHATER Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 Adran, You are right C.Hoffman was smart and gifted, but his brother Ryle was just better. It says C.Hoffman lived in the shadow of his brothers greatness. I haven't read all of the Fluff books, but my above paragraph is a summary of Pages 102-103 C.Hoffman and 113 Ryle from the book Rising Powers I have sitting right next to me. I think there may be some confusion somewhere, but I'm not sure where it's coming from. Maybe were talking about stories from different editions? I'm sure these books are all 1.0 and 1.5 so I don't know if lore changed or got expanded on in M2E. I haven't even read this whole book so I don't know if there is a lot more story about the incident in the book. I don't even play M2E at all so I know almost nothing about the current lore or the new system (I'm 1 of the last 1.5 holdouts). On the lighter side of things I'm not trying to be rude, or confrontational, and I'm not mad. My paragraph above is a very shorten version of the exact pages. I just didn't want to go the long route like this.... Rising Powers P 103 Paragraph 2 ...Ramos knowledge wasn't enough, though. C. Hoffman needed additional resources, possessed only by the guild, to prolong his brothers life. Rising Powers P 103 Paragraph 3 The guild was looking for a way to infiltrate the ranks of the Arcanists and willingly took in both Hoffmans..... Rising Powers P113 Paragraph 3 ...While traveling through the breach, Ryle and his brother were bombarded with raw aether, the energy drawn to their magical potential. Both collapsed under the assault; but where C. Hoffmans talents were unlocked by the experienced, Ryle's body and mind were nearly destroyed..... It may say somewhere there was a train crash, but it's not in those's pages. In all honesty I'm not a fluff guy anyway...I just had the book handy so I though I'd chime in. Nighthater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 You've got the books in front of you, I'm only going by memory (and I'm basing that all on Rising powers), so sorry if I seemed confrontational. I was sure there was an Arcanist raid on the train they came in on, somewhere. And C.Hoffman didn't realsie Ramos was Arcanist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted October 21, 2014 Report Share Posted October 21, 2014 I was sure there was an Arcanist raid on the train they came in on, somewhere. And C.Hoffman didn't realsie Ramos was Arcanist. That's in the Guild Story in Rising Powers, I believe. The one with the flashbacks to Hoffmann's youth? I don't have the book at the moment, but I remember that as well. Also, it's in book 3, after Justice awakens, that Hoffmann comes to suspect Ramos as an Arcanist. It's that scene with Justice, the Ortega brothers and Hoffmann questioning him about his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticPangolin Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Did Hoffman not develop a burning resentment towards Ramos for the botch job on his brother, and is willingly working with Lucius/the Guild to take him down? I'm not sure what to call him (double/triple agent?) as Ramos would be at least somewhat aware that Hoffman is being used by the Guild to infiltrate the M&SU but hopes to sway him yet. I have forgotten the conversation that they had after their showdown around the time that the tower collapsed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Sarcasm) Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 wow. spent about 30 minutes writing up a response but one slip of the key and it's all gone. well, here goes again. After the train accident, Hoffman wakes up in Ramos' lab, discovers his latent power and Ramos tells him that although he's kept Ryle alive, Hoffman needs to immediately use his power to prevent him from deteriorating. Thus far Ramos knows Hoffman hates Arcanists but Hoffman does not know Ramos true station in them. Hoffman goes to Lucius for the job that was set up for him before crossing the breach. Lucius is suspicious of Arcanist connections but Hoffman's vocal animosity convinces him otherwise and appoints Hoffman as head of the 'Flesh Construct Grafting Illegality Bureau-somethingorather'. Hoffman since works out that Ramos has to be connected to the Arcanists in some way. On belltower night Ramos turns up, Hoffman confronts him and Ramos responds by using Ryle against his brother. Ryle speaks to Hoffman in his mind, and Ramos confirms it was his intention to show Hoffman that Ryle "still feels". The two collaborate in saving Justice and the Judge but Hoffman keeps Ramos' secret. Ryle sticks with C in the guild but Lucius takes Ryle under his 'wing' *shiver* for armament in his Special Division for a time. Lucius assigns Hoffman to investigate the 'symbol' prevalent in Criid's research while she is dissappeared. When justice wakes up, she, Santiago and Francisco go to confront Ramos about augmenting her in order to keep her alive. They meet Hoffman who is also on his way to meet Ramos and "get answers" concerning the symbol (not sure this bit adds up, myself). It is Hoffman's diplomacy that gets everyone not to kill each other. He reminds Ramos of their secret, mutual knowledge and this makes Ramos more agreeable to everyone. Ramos gives Justice a soulstone to heal herself, indicating that she can go on living without his augmentations. This breaks the ice. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGHTHATER Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Sarcasm, Oh I feel you bud, I type in notepad and then copy to here because I have "enjoyed" the whole slip of the keyboard one too many times. As for your post thank you that's pretty awesome. Now if that works or not with the pages I read is debatable. Like I said before I just read their stories by their pictures in Rising Powers. I'm in the middle of trying to find a new job and a move so my fluff story time is strained. Nighthater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZombie Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Anyone here find it odd that that they call Ryle, Ryle Hoffman in the story, but they always call Charles just C.Hoffman or just Hoffman? The poor guy has a first name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Sarcasm) Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 It's because Ryle is always number one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacms Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Guild (Hoffman) can hire Arcanist constructs through the Upgrade "Arcanist Assets". (But none of that has to do with the "M&SU" keyword. All that keyword gets you is the two Johan interactions, this other stuff is other stuff that happens through other rules). Just a correction here. Actually Hoffman can only hire Arcanist constructs with the M&SU characteristic. As for the fluff it has already been covered pretty extensively but don't forget that Hoffman actually blames Ramos for what happened to his brother. And all it is doing for Guild is basic an attempt to try and undo whatever happen to his brother 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiralngCadavr Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Anyone here find it odd that that they call Ryle, Ryle Hoffman in the story, but they always call Charles just C.Hoffman or just Hoffman? The poor guy has a first name.Pretty sure "Charles" wasn't in 1e (I certainly don't remember running across it and don't have crossroads), not sure why thematically they chose to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rythos42 Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Iin Crossroads they finally decided to spill the beans and tell us what everyone had already assumed -- that his first name is Charles. My assumption is that they didn't want to point too strongly at the Charles Xavier inspiration initially, and maybe decided "eh" in Crossroads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticPangolin Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Initially I was wondering if in fact his name was Coppelius Hoffman and the same Neverborn model was some subsconscious manifestation, until his Unexplained Connection was explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.