Kogan Style Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hey all, Partly a tournament/competitive thread, but also a place for general ideas on crew construction. If you have a 100ss pool limit with which to form Ressur crews to do various strategies, what would you put in as your core? How many Masters would you try to cater for? Which upgrades would be key for you? We all know Rotten Belles are the Ressur staple, but how many would you include in the pool? Lets assume summoning can include any mixture of models (i.e. its not dependant on the original pool) I'm currently thinking 2, as certain Masters can summon them in relatively easily. I'm currently working around 2 masters, but would you go for variety, or specialise by having one master and a host of different minions to cover different strategy challenges? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 As a Nico and McMourning player I'd include some of the following models, Nico would be my primary master and I'd try to be diverse in my selection but also accommodate for McMourning as well as many of their models can cross over with relative ease. 2-3 Belles, 1-2 Nurses, 1-2 Canine Remains, 2-3 Flesh Constructs, 1-2 Punk Zombies, Izamu, Chiaki, Toshiro (maybe), Mortimer, Sebastian, 1-2 Necropunks, 2 Night Terrors, Iron Zombies, 1-2 Guild Autopsies and maybe some Crooligans and/or Shikome. For Totems I'd probably go with the Chihuahua for McMourning the Grave Spirit for Nico although I dig the Vulcher. Upgrades wise I guess I'd go with Nico - Reaper Grin, Undertaker and Maniacal Laugh. McMourning - Decaying Aura & Moonlighting Mortimer - Corpse Bloat & My Favorite Shovel Sebastian - Transfusion & Those Are Not Ours! Izamu - Decaying / Unnerving Aura I feel the selection of models offers plenty of tanky guys, hitters, fast objective runners and what not. Upgrades are just my preferred upgrades for those that can take them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I'm not very good with Ressers, so take all this with a pinch of salt. I've tried the 100 pool and can easily support 2 masters from it. It can do 3 masters (or more) if you don't have a tight view on what a master should contain. (The first time I did this was with Arcanists, and built for Ramos and Mei (and some Raspy), and used my 1 ss left over to pick Gods domain. The only game I won was with Marcus, using Joss, Rail Golem and some spiders. I'm happy to play crews like this, but I know a lot of people won't play a marcus crew without some beasts in it for example. ) Picking a pool if you want to play Nicodem, Molly and Kirai would probably look very different to a pool for Seamus, Tara and Yan Lo as the first 3 can summon in a wide selection of models, reducing the need for them in your starting pool. I also enjoy having the option of changing master so I personally would always enter this sort of tournement/crew selection with the intent of having at least 2 masters to field. I know a lot of people that prefere playing 1 master really well, and using them for everything, or nearly eveything. If I'm plannign for a tournement, and know what the strats are, I would kind of start by workkign out a rough list for each master that I might take for those strats, and look to common models that make more that 1 list, either across strats or masters. Lets say I've decided I want to try Seamus and Tara. I would probably decide I can't really afford to spend that large a chunk of my crew on Death Marshals that only Tara could hire, so I can rule out that upgrade. But I might want to take Karina and her summoning upgrade, so I might still consider void wretchs as a cheap scheme runner. For Reckoning - I want a few tough models, that are hard to be removed, reducing the chance for my opponent to get Reckoning points. Possible things would include Dead Rider, Izamu and Rogue Necomancy. A nurse would possibly be added for their de/buffing options. For Turf war, I would like durable models and movement tricks, so a Rotten belle in the turf area is toufgh to be removed, but could also be used out side to shift enemies from the area. Activation Control could be useful, so would hope for 7-10 models. For Stake a claim I like models that can drop a claim marker as well as move, or are naturally fast and cheap. Necro punks, Cruligans and Canine remains will probably be picked here. For reconnoter you want a mix of numbers and threats. nurse -5 2 belle -10 Rogue necromancy- 10 Dead Rider 12 2 necro punks -10 Karina - 5 Sybelle - 8 Copycat killer -3 2 Cruligans - 8 Mortimer -9 Flesh Construct -6 Bleeding tongue 1 Decaying Aura -2 Spare parts -2 Sinister rep 1 Eternal Journey 1 Knowledge of Eternity 2 Mad Habidashery -2 Corpse bloat -2 Karinas new upgrade (99 ss in total) Reconnoter might be like this Seamus +Corpse Bloat 2ss +Sinister Reputation1ss Copycat Killer3ss Crooligan4ss Crooligan4ss Dead Rider 12ss +Decaying Aura2ss Flesh Construct 6ss Necropunk5ss Rotten Belle5ss Rotten Belle5ss Stake a claim Tara +Eternal Journey1ss +Knowledge of Eternity2ss +Spare Parts2ss Karina5ss (+ new upgrade) Crooligan4ss Crooligan4ss Madame Sybelle 8ss +Bleeding Tongue1ss Mortimer 9ss +Corpse Bloat 2ss Necropunk5ss Nurse5ss Reckonning Seamus +Mad Haberdasher2ss +Sinister Reputation1ss Karina5ssDecaying Aura - 2ssLong Forgotten Magics - 1ssTransfusion - 1ssUnnerving Aura - 1ss Dead Rider 12ss +Decaying Aura2ss Madame Sybelle 8ss +Bleeding Tongue1ss Nurse5ss Rogue Necromancy10ss Rotten Belle 5ss Squatters Tara +Eternal Journey1ss +Knowledge of Eternity2ss +Spare Parts2ss Karina5ss Crooligan4ss Crooligan4ss Mortimer 9ss +Corpse Bloat2ss Necropunk5ss Necropunk5ss Nurse5ss Rotten Belle5ss Obviously, Schemes and opponents will mean I wouldn't plan on sticking to the list exactly, but havign the plan in my mind, I can tehn look and see for example I've not used a second belle, in my lists so far.Is there anythign I wanted to put in, but didn't have the points? My Favorite shovel is certainly a possibility, but is there a situation where i want a second belle? (well rather what situation do I put a second belle on the table). I've only used the rogue necro once, Does it pull its weight? IS the chance to use its smell fear with all the Wp, and Seamus' sinister rep, worth its place, or would something else fit better? Well I don't own Izamu, so I would probably stick with the rogue necromancy, and it might get in the turf war list if I'm worried about hoards. Or might be picked against Gremlins in general. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhallan42nd Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Hey all, Partly a tournament/competitive thread, but also a place for general ideas on crew construction. If you have a 100ss pool limit with which to form Ressur crews to do various strategies, what would you put in as your core? How many Masters would you try to cater for? Which upgrades would be key for you? We all know Rotten Belles are the Ressur staple, but how many would you include in the pool? Lets assume summoning can include any mixture of models (i.e. its not dependant on the original pool) I'm currently thinking 2, as certain Masters can summon them in relatively easily. I'm currently working around 2 masters, but would you go for variety, or specialise by having one master and a host of different minions to cover different strategy challenges? Is this 100ss pool include upgrades, or are those separate? Assuming upgrades are separate: Necropunk 5 Necropunk 5 Belle 5 Belle 5 Madame Sybelle 8 Crooligan 4 Crooligan 4 Toshiro the Daimyo 9 Mortimer 9 Nurse 5 Nurse 5 Rogue Necromancy 10 Dead Rider 12 Flesh Construct 6 Zombie Chihuahua 2 Copycat Killer 3 Grave Spirit 3 100 I'd feel comfortable fielding Tara, McMourning, Molly, and Seamus with these. I do love playing Kirai, but I really feel Datsue Ba is a lynchpin to her crew's maneuverability, so without her there, I feel that the crew would be missing both its mobility, and Izamu as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted October 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Some great responses here, thanks! I'm a Seamus and Molly player, and so far my pool is looking like: Masters: Seamus & Molly Henchmen/Enforcers: Sybelle, Datsue Ba, Yin, Jaakuna Minions: Hanged, Punk Zombie, Drowned, Rotten Belle x 2, Crooked Man, Nurse, Canine Remains x 2 Merc: Johan Totems: CCK Upgrades: Sinister Rep, Red Chapel Killer, Not too banged up, Forgotten Life, Tears of the Gorgon, Spare Parts, Unnerving Aura. SS total: 100 Looking at it and comparing to other's I'm wondering the viability of Spare Parts and acquiring the Rogue Necromancy in-game. This was my original plan but the moment I go up against something that doesn't drop counters/Lady J wishing them away I think I'll never be able to get it off relabily and its probably those situations that a Rogue would be super helpful! I put Datsue in primarily as support summoning, she has the crow built in for summoning Gaki, and only wants to bring out Onryo while Molly (and to a lesser extent Seamus) are all about the (and for reactivate in Molly's case) but is this a bit corner case for lists. Datsue would also buff the Hanged and the Drowned (currently) Also there isn't a Horror equivalent yet (Philip is more scheme marker than Horror buffer) Johan is in for condition removal (and that Hammer), but so far in my theory lists I haven't included him once. Expensive insurance? A lot of love for Toshiro, I have the model, but not used him - worth a spot on the team? At the expense of the Hanged. Yin I'm a big fan of, but I wonder if by having both Yin and Jaakuna I'm merely giving myself a different flavour of the same thing i.e. Unnerving aura with various crippling effects. Crooked man is also another that could and probably should be chopped. Its a handy way to get scheme markers dropped and shafted has potential, but I've never gotten it off so those SS could be pushed into other things. Same goes for the Hanged, uber Ressur model, but not as versatile as a Rogue? I don't have Tara, but I like the thinking behind including her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted October 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Got two games in this weekend sticking to my restricted pool of models and upgrades, won a tough Reckoning game against Jakob Lynch 5 - 2, but the main thing I learnt from the game was how great Dead Doxies are! Thanks to there zero action, summoning them in mitigates the AP loss as you get a push for movement and having been summoned by Seamus its likely (with Sinister Rep) that the opponent will be within the 6" , getting -2 to their WP to help ensure the Doxy gets her push and the enemy gets moved out of position (or into a scheme marker in my case for Plant Explosives) I think I'll keep this thread going as a place to dump thoughts and experiences and then look back once the tournaments I'm attending are done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan34j Posted October 9, 2014 Report Share Posted October 9, 2014 @Kogan If you really want to reliably get the spare parts 4 corpse markers off fairly easily, I like using Mortimer with Molly and giving him corpse bloat. On turn 2 you can summon in a Rogue Necromancy. Turn 1 ) Morty Corpse Bloats and finds a bone Turn 2 ) Morty Corpse Bloats and finds a bone or Molly can summon a model that will appear and die to create the last marker Plus mortimer has the advantage of having chatty which is really nice for squatter's rights and stake a claim, and then for any of the scheme marker schemes. Toshiro and molly can play really well together. Especially if you have the models to take advantage of his Command the Graves. Since molly, other than the spare parts upgrade, doesn't need corpse markers he will gladly use them to give a group focus or summon an Ashigaru. Also his 6'' positive attack bubble for minions is pretty solid to have things summoned in near him and take advantage of that. Plus he can make them fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted October 14, 2014 Report Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm going to a tournament in January with the same restrictions (upgrades included in the 100SS) and wondering what to take. I thought I could support three Masters and was planning Seamus, McMourning and Nico as they use a lot of the same stuff but totalled up what I thought I'd need and it was about 140SS! I'm thinking that I'll just take two now (Nico and Seamus). I would go for: 2 X Belles (they are great!) 1 x Nurse (I never seem to take more than one although multiples seem to make a lot of lists) 2 x Punk Zombies (for the chop chop! although considering dropping to one with Nico summoning in the other when given the chance) 2 x Necropunks (for scheme running, could change for Crooligans but don't have experience with them) Toshiro (great Hench) Seb Mortimer Bete/Shikome (only started using these recently and really like them). Not sure what that is in SS cost but seems like a useful core that both Masters could use well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted October 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I hope its not "Here be Dragons...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 I hope its not "Here be Dragons...." It may or may not be..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurreyLee Posted October 15, 2014 Report Share Posted October 15, 2014 i'm childish and know nothing about ressers, yet, but the title of the thread made me chuckle. Hat's off to you sir! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted October 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 Update: So I was given the Nicodem box set as a surprise birthday gift, which was pretty cool! But leaves me with a bit of a quandry, to run 3 masters from the pool or not? The great option is that Sybelle can hench for Seamus and Molly effectively, leaving me with trying to fit Mortimer in, and potentially Canine Remains to improve the Corpse marker count. But the Dogs are somewhat unreliable, needing a precious crow, while Mortimer needs a 9 of anything for both his Found a bone and Fresh meat, cards which could be used for Nicodem summoning (especially mindless zombies) How have people coped with corpse counter generation in the early stages for Nico? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fengor Posted October 27, 2014 Report Share Posted October 27, 2014 If you have a low and a model with 2 wounds to spare you could always go for mortys dismember trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 I don't think three Masters is viable in a 100SS pool. For corpse counters you want Mortimer with Corpse Bloat and maybe My Favourite Shovel if you need to move him as well. He should comfortably be able to put out 6-8 corpse counters in a game which is enough with the others that will generate naturally. I don't find dogs a very good for generating corpse counters. It's a (2) action and you need the card in your hand to really get it off which is often better spent elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clement Posted October 28, 2014 Report Share Posted October 28, 2014 If there's anyone who can get away with "just one more" its Nico. He plays very well with any undead at all and turns Sybelle into a murder machine. He won't be power summoning no, but he's got other useful features too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted November 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 If you have a low and a model with 2 wounds to spare you could always go for mortys dismember trigger That only works on an enemy, says so in the trigger (Gaki have the same thing) Given that most people reccomend leaving Mortimer in the back line harvesting himself, it doesn't look a good option. I'm experimenting with running an Undead Henchmen as my Corpse bloater - Sybelle and Datsue Ba currently as they are cheaper than Toshiro and offer Nicodem other abilities he could use. Nico can also heal them quicker thanks to decay and Sybelle can benefit from Nicodems buffing while Datsue offers another summoning route that isn't crow reliant. Just need some Vassal games to test these out! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted November 4, 2014 Report Share Posted November 4, 2014 Let us know how it goes if you get a chance to get it on the 'table' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Getting some games in this weekend - I'm so theoried out that I need to get into a scrap to see how it works when someone else is trying to mess up my neatly prepared corpse counter generation! In the mean time, I read this very interesting (and relevant) blog post by Joel on the subject of building for pools (link is http://joelfaux.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/the-answer-isyou-not-going-to-like-it42.html ) For those who don't read it - make a 42 soulstone crew using minons around the 6ss cost that would fit the following criteria (also if they work well in pairs - so much better!): Can hold ground Can hit hard Can move fast and grab objectives I came up with the following: Hold Ground - Flesh Constructs (x2) 12ss Hit Hard - Punk Zombies (x2) 14ss Move fast - Dead Doxies/Necropunks (x2) 12ss totem - 3ss Slight underspend - I thought about putting Rotten belles in (who doesn't!) but the DDs actually move quicker, with their zero you can push up and push the enemy off a marker, and still leave yourself with 2AP to move and interact. Necropunks would also fit the fast theme what are your thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Thanks for that link Kogan, loks interesting an I'll have a read of it soon. Seems like a solid way to do it and I like your choices (I'm a big fan of Necropunks which rarely fail to do well for me except when sodding Pandora is around negating their HtK and ability to re-attach with all that one damage at a time Misery nonsense!). I'm not sure about Flesh Constructs being good for holding though. Although they seem pretty tanky their incredibly low Df/Wp means that people can stack damage on them pretty easily. Not sure what I'd have as an alternative though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted November 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 My other thought for holding ground was the Drowned, Df & Wp of 6, but only 6 wounds. They are great against melee monsters (or at least, are a good speed bump) but that walk of 4 makes it difficult to get them to the ground you want to hold. Thinking about it more - I would go the Drowned over the Flesh Construct simply because they are spirits, horrors and undead so they work with more masters than just the FC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I've yet to get Drowned or Crooked Men on the table. So many things I still need to try out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted November 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 So I finally got Nicodem on the table, in a debut match against Som'er Strategy - Stake a Claim Deployment - Close Schemes - ALitS, Breakthrough, Bodyguard, Cursed Object, Outflank Crew Nicodem - Undertaker, Maniacal Laugh, Reaper Grin Sybelle - Corpse Bloat Izamu - Unnerving Aura Flesh Construct Performer Dead Doxy Crooligan Schemes: Breakthrough (announced), Outflank (unannounced) Som'er (unknown upgrades) Lenny Pigapult Gremlins x 4 Piglets x 3 (I think) Schemes: Breakthrough (announced), Cursed Object (unannounced) I lost 8 - 5 but came away with some useful knowledge: Dead doxies should never be in the initial hiring step for me, for Nico as the role I wanted her to perform (move Nicodem so I don't have to waste his AP) she is ill-suited for compared to a Belle. I needed a 7 to move with the Doxy, but I only need a 4 to do the same thing with a Belle. Rookie Error. ALWAYS declare Outflank! Another Rookie error since I don't like the scheme so I would not usually pick it. I went for it this time as I needed the practice. Cost me a VP Pigapult needs to be rushed, not avoided. I did manage to summon a Hanged, Flesh Construct, Shikome, Dead doxy and a Canine Remains during the game. I spent a lot of time on turn 1 creating the required corpse counters, I'm still unsure as to whether my trick bulking out the crew is worth the cost so early in the game. Here it goes: Deploy Flesh Construct (FC) out of Nicodem's Aura, close to Izamu Move Nico via Lure Move Sybelle, drop corpse counter Move Izamu, use Melee Expert on FC and a hit again - you need to cause 8 dmg. Ideally you'll have Izamu in Nicodem's and getting flips, looking for a Tome. Cheating in the dmg flip (FC HtW is effectively cancelled by Dadao's native dmg flip) to help cycle the control hand (and ensure moderate damage is dealt) FC is now on 5 wounds. Move the performer closer to Nicodem and use Siren's call with the Sip of Wine trigger to kill the FC, moving it within Nicodems from Undertaker, generating another card as well as 2 corpse counters (40mm base). Activate Nicodem, and create your legion (I usually create 2 if I can, then bounce Decay off a Mindless Zombie to heal Sybelle + one other summon if you can group them right) I used this in the game to summon a Hanged and another FC on turn one, keeping the mindless zombie as fuel for turn 2. Against a living crew its probably not necessary but I imagine against the other crews types out there, it could be helpful (even if it does lock your crew selection down) I have thought about doing the same thing but with a Nurse, double tapping the FC to bump his poision upto +13 then Sip of Wine for the kill, but at present, I feel Izamu is a more useful choice once the Corpse counters have been made. Anyone have any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 There's nothing in the rules about getting extra corpse counters for being on a 40mm base, they drop one just like everything else. Agree with Belles over Doxies but if you need pushes rather than lure's then they are the way forward (they're much better at moving you're own stuff up the field, i.e. Izamu with his slow Wk). I don't think you have enough scheme runners in you're starting list for the strats/schemes that were flipped. Although Nico can summon in a lot this isn't always reliable as you need the cards and/or stones and you're always subject to a BJ flip (also remember that you can't Interact the turn you are summoned either). You also seem to be putting a lot of effort and AP into generating corpse counters from killing your own stuff. Mortimer is a much better choice than Sybelle as he can get two a turn off by giving him Corpse Bloat plus using his (2) AP action to place another one. Not being Undead means you can't heal him but his Regenerate means that he can Bloat for four turns which is usually more than enough. Otherwise I just use the natural corpse counters that get left around when things die (nothing like having your scheme runner die only for another one to pop up in it's place ready to do the business on the next turn). I'm not sure I see a place for Izamu in with the schemes you chose either. If you had chosen Bodyguard he's pretty good because of his won heal and Nico's but otherwise he seems unnecessary with what you are trying to accomplish for your VPs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kogan Style Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 There's nothing in the rules about getting extra corpse counters for being on a 40mm base, they drop one just like everything else. Eurgh! Serious 1st Ed hangover! You are of course correct, which throws out all the theory But glad I caught it here. I don't think you have enough scheme runners in you're starting list for the strats/schemes that were flipped. Although Nico can summon in a lot this isn't always reliable as you need the cards and/or stones and you're always subject to a BJ flip (also remember that you can't Interact the turn you are summoned either). I'm working with a limited SS pool for the upcoming tournaments - when you only have 100ss worth of models and upgrades available you are going to have to really pick and choose your models. Thankfully since you pointed out my hangover I can readjust my thinking. I think I'll keep the performer though, love destroying enemy scheme markers I found with the effort I spent to kill my own minions I was cycling my deck effectively, making soulstones less critical to summoning. Back to the drawing board for this one though. I'm not a fan of Mortimer as he is more expensive than Sybelle and only brings the corpse counter generation to the table. Plus in the pool, unless you are going mono master (which Nicodem could do well I imagine) filling up with Henchmen which are not very versatile is, in my view, hampering yourself. YMMV If I wasn't practising Outflank, I'd never touch it - I would have chosen as you say, Izamu would have been my Kevin Costner to Nicodem's Whitney Houston. Still, all good learning - and thank you for pointing out my error! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 I'm practicing for the same tournament so have limited my 100SS pool but I went with Seamus and McMourning for a recent tournament with friends. You can easily fit enough scheme runners in though. I took three Night Terrors (and with Nico you could probably fit four in as you can summon so much other stuff (Night Terrors aren't Undead though so you want these in your pool). I've only just looked at the Performer and she is wonderful, especially with McMourning! I'm hoping to get her in for a bit of practice soon. If you like messing with people's scheme markers then it's another reason to take Mortimer IMHO, in built chatty is so good! If you give him My Favourite Shovel so he's got one spare AP after Finding a Bone he can also Fling Rot which is great for getting 1 AP charges out for the Shikome or do Fresh Meat which is great for getting your Slow models moving towards a target (don't forget you can target one of your own models too so that you can definitely get it off). AAAANNNNDDD (!) he also hits pretty hard with that shovel. Though the damage track isn't great for a Henchman at Ml 7 it's almost always getting through and the trigger for a corpse counter means even more of them lying around for Nico to do his thing. Personally I think Mortimer is an auto-take for Nico (if it wasn't obvious!) as he's the glue that holds Nico's undead mastermind plan together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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