Pandora and Terror Tot rules quandary?

[mauler78]

 

 

So there are a number of questions that spawned from the given situation.  I will try to recall and play them out.

 

1. Terror Tot ends it movement near Pandora, it was it's last action, and I would normally not be concerned with the Terror check, except in this situation the Terror Tot was with in 6" of 4 models with Misery. Question 1, can the terror tot flip for the WP check and then choose to cheat the flip to fail causing Black Blood to trigger and cause damage to the surrounding models?

 

2. If the Terror Tot in the above situation failed it's terror check, and Misery was triggered 4 times from the surrounding models, in what order do the damage effects hit the model? Since this was the Target of framed for murder, it would be in my interested to have Pandora's Misery hit first, and then the Sorrows.  Additionally, does each trigger of Misery create a separate source of damage and therefore trigger Black Blood each time?

[asrian]

Question 1 - yes, you can, unless another abilty prohibits it, cheat a terror check to purposely win/fail it.

Question 2 Part A- I don't have my book on me atm, but damage, if simultaneously done, would go in order of damage dealer's choice just like other abilities that happen at same time. I'll try to remember to look up the page number when I get home

Question 2 Part B- each misery is considered a separate source, therefore everything within 1" would be hit 4 times from black blood if a WP test is failed and the tot took damage from misery going off 4 times.

[Dirial]

Addendum to B. If this model was killed by the Misery of a Sorrow, it would not be Pandora who kills it. Having the first Dg caused by Dora would be counterproductive: You should try for its last Wd.

[Myyrä]

Addendum to B. If this model was killed by the Misery of a Sorrow, it would not be Pandora who kills it. Having the first Dg caused by Dora would be counterproductive: You should try for its last Wd.

Since the tot was target for frame for murder he would not want to kill it with Pandora.

[Dirial]

Since the tot was target for frame for murder he would not want to kill it with Pandora.

 

Apologies. Since you cannot know which model is the sucker for Frame, I kind of assumed the OP was the Tot's player.

[Bengt]

Question 2 Part A- I don't have my book on me atm, but damage, if simultaneously done, would go in order of damage dealer's choice just like other abilities that happen at same time. I'll try to remember to look up the page number when I get home

The box on page 46. And to put it in more general terms, if models controlled by one player has abilities go of simultaneously the controller decides the order.

[Uktena]

Incidental aside - since it appears there is a gap but I can't be certain - if Pandora is abutting that Sorrow in front of her you won't suffer Misery damage from the Sorrow in the upper right of the pic.

[asrian]

The box on page 46. And to put it in more general terms, if models controlled by one player has abilities go of simultaneously the controller decides the order.

 

Thank you, Bengt. I forgot to go back and grab the page number when I got home.

[Stupid Bob]

Additionally, does each trigger of Misery create a separate source of damage and therefore trigger Black Blood each time?

 

 

Per FAQ/Errata

 

Q: If a model with Armor is within range of multiple models with the Misery Ability and the model fails a Wp duel, does it suffer 1 damage from each model with the Misery Ability? Or does it suffer “one lump sum” of damage which it would then be able to reduce with Armor?

A: It would suffer 1 damage from each model with the Misery Ability separately.

 

 

4 different damaging 'events', therefore 4 different black bloods.

[mauler78]

Thanks everyone for clearing that up.  For my opponent is should have been really good then to fail his WP check and blow up 2 Sorrows and pile damage on Pandora.

[Sligui]

What happens if the tot was previously at 1 hit point left?

 

Do all Misery abilities go off doing 4 damage (and thus 4 black blood damage)?

 

Does only one Misery ability go off, and 1 black blood damage, and then the tot dies?

[Myyrä]

If tot has 1 wound left, he can only take 1 damage. Whether or not other Miseries go off doesn't really matter, because model at 0 wounds can't take damage.

[valhallan42nd]

Incidental aside - since it appears there is a gap but I can't be certain - if Pandora is abutting that Sorrow in front of her you won't suffer Misery damage from the Sorrow in the upper right of the pic.

I'd like to stress this. Unless there was a gap inbetween the Sorrow and Pandora, that Tot is still alive.

[The Godlyness]

If tot has 1 wound left, he can only take 1 damage. Whether or not other Miseries go off doesn't really matter, because model at 0 wounds can't take damage.

Not wholly true. Due to timing it suffer misery till 0 wounds then be removed. So if at 1 wound would take misery once and be removed and the other misery would have no effect. Let's say fizzle.

Now the part that is false. since a model can not be reduced below 0 wounds (FAQ) does not mean it can't take damage. Maul, blood frenzy. Can continue to strike as long as they hit and the damage flip is not a black joker (No damage) or its prevented (for what ever reason) any point? Not really the 0 wound model is quite dead. But it does burn cards.

[Myyrä]

Not wholly true. Due to timing it suffer misery till 0 wounds then be removed. So if at 1 wound would take misery once and be removed and the other misery would have no effect. Let's say fizzle.

Now the part that is false. since a model can not be reduced below 0 wounds (FAQ) does not mean it can't take damage. Maul, blood frenzy. Can continue to strike as long as they hit and the damage flip is not a black joker (No damage) or its prevented (for what ever reason) any point? Not really the 0 wound model is quite dead. But it does burn cards.

 

I'm assuming that there is once again absolutely no rules or FAQ to back up your opinion.

 

From the FAQ:

Q: Can a model ever be reduced to a negative number of Wounds?

A: No. The lowest number of Wounds a model may ever have is zero (0).

 

Q: If a model suffers 0 (zero) damage, does it count as having suffered damage?

A: No.

 

I'm sure you can argue (using the power of imagination) that dealing or suffering damage has nothing to do with amount of wounds reduced, but unless you have rules to back up your stance, please restrain yourself.

[The Godlyness]

I am going to pretend i am talking to Candy the Petulant youth.

 

Have you even read the rule book my dear candy? if you have you would see this line "When a number of points of damage is taken by a model, it reduces its current Wounds by that amount. If the model is reduced to 0 or fewer Wounds it is immediately removed from the game as killed"

 

Now i know you are not smart or developed the brain capacity to fit your body that just grew when the Event happened but no where does this say that the DAMAGE done to the model is reduced to 0 ((zero) need to spell it out just in case you have not learned your numbers yet) when the model is at zero.

 

Now if a Giant icky malifaux rat attacked you and flipped weak or moderate it (0/0/1) deal you 0 damage which is no damage. BUT if it did severe it would deal 1 damage. now then you would reduce you wounds by 1 to a minimum of 0. which then you are killed of course. But wait after the damage flip and any modiers applied to it but before taking that damage you burn a soul stone and prevent that 1 damage now the rat did 0 which is no damage.

 

Are you still with me or did i lose you in the rules again. it seems to happen alot to you. any ways.

 

now if you were out of stones and i attacked you hit you and then the damage flip did not flip the black joker and then any and all modifiers later the damage is still 1 or more.......Ready for it.......I DID DAMAGE!!!!!!!! what a crazy concept.

 

Now since Malifaux is a Permissive rules set, nowhere does it say that the target, which is at 0 Wounds REDUCES OR PREVENTS or somehow any other which way makes the damage 0.

 

So now please Read the rule book. well i guess better or rather comprehend it better i am not sure which.

 

also dear Candy when a model hits zero wounds unless there is an abilty trigger or effect which keeps it in play it is removed. so if it was at 1 wound and 4 miserys activated and reduced it to 0 it is removed before the other 3 do anything.

 

No i dont want any Sweets. Fine i will take just one.  *drops dead*

[Kadeton]

Godlyness, while I agree with your position and I get that you're just trying to make the argument more fun, the Petulant Youth roleplay thing comes across as incredibly condescending.

[The Godlyness]

Was trying to stay Pandora themed. I will admit It does seem a little condescending. Which if any one is deeply offended I will 're write it.

[Myyrä]

When a number of points of damage is taken by a model, it reduces its current Wounds by that amount.

Logical thinker would notice that this also means that "When current Wounds are not reduced, no damage is taken."

[The Godlyness]

But by that logic if you are at 1 and I do 2 damage. Your logic says I only did 1 damage. But malifaux logic and rules say I did 2 damage.

That is disconnect I believe.

You believe the model needs to reduce its wound count to be dealt/suffer damage. But in actuality according to the rules it has to be dealt/suffer damage first to reduce it wounds.

Edit: To further accentuate my point if a model has:

Hard to Kill: While this model has 2 or more Wd remaining when it suffers damage, it may not be reduced to below 1 Wd.

If it was at 2 wounds and I did 3 damage to it, it would only reduce its wound total to 1. But it was dealt and or suffered 3 damage.