Popular Post Ratty Posted April 19, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Every so often the subject of Terrain in Malifaux comes up. Having the correct amount and type of terrain really matters. If you have too little terrain it can become very easy for shooting crews to have the advantage. If your terrain doesn't block LoS casting crews reign. TERRAIN MIX I would generally break terrain into 3 categories 1) Blocks LoS 2) Provides cover 3) Slows/Blocks Movement I feel it's important to have a mix of these though pieces of terrain can fall into multiple catagories, A small section of trees does all 3. For these diagrams I have choose to limit myself to 4 different types of terrain which cover all these criteria. 1) Buildings, block LoS and creates line of approach and shooting lanes. 2) Trees, provide cover to models inside, block LoS to models behind the terrain and slow movement. 3) Scatter Terrain, in this case Barrels and Boxes, these provide cover. 4) Bone Heaps, in this case slowing movement but not blocking LoS or granting cover. Amount of Terrain Really you should aim for between 1/3 and 1/2 the board being covered in terrain. The best way to sort this out is to collect all the terrain you are going to use in one corner of the board and then spread them out. Terrain Placement I always aim to place a decent piece of blocking Terrain somewhere near the center of the board (just make sure you can get to the center for Turf War and Squatter's right), I also try to make sure there are multiple lines of approach across the board and also some decent firing lines. The other this I would watch out for is placing your terrain along the edges of boards, as the majority of games end up playing in the center of the board if you end up with all your terrain along the edges and a big gap in the center it lowers the impact of terrain on the game as it can just be circumvented. Hills I feel Hills can be a bit of a trap. They don't really fulfill any of the criteria at the start. So if a large chunk of your terrain is Hills then you can end up with a board that is very sparse. You see a lot of boards where you have huge chunks of hills along the edges or in the corner and in this case they are almost acting as Anti-Terrain as not only do they not fulfill the criteria but also they allow models to ignore terrain in the center of the board. SO by all means have hills they add variety but I would probably not count them in the proportion of the board that is terrain unless they are doing something to fulfill the criteria, a hill in the center of the board could do that, or a hill with some cliff face to slow movement. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme27uk Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Excellent suggestions and summary! Malifaux is more scenery-dependent than other games and the placement, types and quantity of terrain can be game changing. Really important to get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 This should be stickied. It comes up a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipsy_Danger Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Great points, I agree with Dgraz about sticky-ing this for future reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierowmaniac Posted April 20, 2014 Report Share Posted April 20, 2014 Brilliant, a great post that we can all direct the terrain questions to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruglyother Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 Great work Ratty. I would reinforce the value of 0 Ht terrain. You use the bone piles for it, which is a good example. But this category can also include rivers, swamps, plowed fields, etc. Really good for severe terrain without granting cover or blocking LOS. Can be combined with other pieces easily enough. A swamp with a shack, a field with some crates. I like to emphasize this because often times, people who are frustrated/unsure/questioning about terrain are coming from other game systems where Ht 0 terrain is essentially unheard of. It makes a big difference in how much coverage you can get on a table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Wall Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've. Been experimenting with the ht0 terrain that is not a water feature. It is a really interesting concept and has worked pretty well. I'm currently working on a zen garden for a 10t table as height 0, but difficult for movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted April 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 On Vassal I've been treating the coffin Piles as Ht1 and Ht2 Obscuring/Difficult Terrain. Which means you don't have to worry about climbing up and then down the other side. It seems an interesting way of dealing with them. Ht1 Obscuring/Difficult Terrain can be interesting, as it gives cover when moving through it, and also stops small models seeing things like markers on the other side. One thing I didn't mention was the size of terrain. If a piece is too big it can mean the rest of the board is sparse, and no-one ever enters it. I have occasionally seen forests which are 6"x9" and people don't use them at all, because it would take 18" which is 2 whole turns to move through them. The same can go with rivers, I would aim to have a crossing point ever 6-9" along a rivers length, this leads to soft choke points but also allow people to move around the board easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruglyother Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 So, my locla players reminded me of something we did a while back. Basically, it is just another illustration of what Ratty has already done, just using real world terrain rather than Vassal. First up is a river board we designed at one point: Condensed to 50% Spread out Then a farmland type board: Condensed to 50% Spread out Both cases have a variety of terrain types. In retrospect, the farm board could have used a little more cover in the center, but it was still fun. Just tonight, one of our players started setting up a board. He was apparently board and in a groove, because he just kept adding terrain. We started joking that if we left him alone, he would end up covering the entire board. We weren't far off. The board ended up roughly 90% covered with a mix of swamps, hills, and trees. The guys who played on it had a lot of fun, although it would not have been well suited to tournament play. Just goes to show you that many different ideas can all be workable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 So, my locla players reminded me of something we did a while back. Basically, it is just another illustration of what Ratty has already done, just using real world terrain rather than Vassal. First up is a river board we designed at one point: Condensed to 50% Spread out Then a farmland type board: Condensed to 50% Spread out Both cases have a variety of terrain types. In retrospect, the farm board could have used a little more cover in the center, but it was still fun. Just tonight, one of our players started setting up a board. He was apparently board and in a groove, because he just kept adding terrain. We started joking that if we left him alone, he would end up covering the entire board. We weren't far off. The board ended up roughly 90% covered with a mix of swamps, hills, and trees. The guys who played on it had a lot of fun, although it would not have been well suited to tournament play. Just goes to show you that many different ideas can all be workable. Yep they look cool, I would have probably put the tower or rock pile in the center of the farm board and put the plowed field off to one side.. but overall good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paradoxstorm Posted June 8, 2014 Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Buildings-height of walls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted June 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2014 Building I will normally go with at least Ht3. For walls a mixture is good, some that block LoS (Ht 3) some that give hard cover (Ht 1 and 2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ratty Posted June 9, 2014 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 I just thought I should mention sightlines a bit. One thing that is really important in Malifaux is sightlines. Models should be able to be set up in a way where they are covering lines of approach, but they shouldn't be able to be set up in a way where they can cover the majority/all the of lines of approach.Here is an example from a recent tournament.Though I think it may be a touch light on scenery, the type an size of the scenery means that it's very hard to find a line of approach across the board.Imagine the red circle is a Belle, or a sniper. As you can see on setup it's very easy for them to cover a huge proportion of the board.The situation becomes even more pronounced when you allow the model to make a single Walk action. As you can see this Belle has the ability to more or less lure any model which enters her quarter of the board.Now lets look at the board layout in my original post.As you can see there are some fairly decent sightlines across the board. But equally there are area where the enemy can approach this model. Through the woods, from behind the building on the right, by running along the bottom of the board. Also, though moving the model modifies what it can see, it can't cover all of it's half of the board in one move it will always have blind spots. This means you need to be cleaver. The attacker will try to find a way of approaching his position safely, while the defender will have to use melee or disposable models to cover the line of approach through the woods. It makes the game much more tactical. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yool1981 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 This is a great and beautifuly illustrated brief ! Coming from Warmachine, I'd like to know if there is such a thing as a linear obstacle (fences, small ruins of walls, providing soft/hard cover depending on the obstacle but having a very thin width so that a model can't stand on top) and how they should be treated in terms of walk and charge penalties ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 This is a great and beautifuly illustrated brief ! Coming from Warmachine, I'd like to knowo if there is such a thing as a linear obstacle (fences, small ruins of walls, providing soft/hard cover depending on the obstacle but having a very thin width so that a model can't stand on top) and how they should be treated in terms of walk and charge penalties ? Yes. Just give a fence the climbable, blocking and hard/soft cover as you please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 There are 4 options (that I can think of) to handle such items. There isn't a right or wrong way, just agree with your opponent before the game. You can treat them as climable, and allow the model to drop down the other side once it has climbed up. You can treat them as severe, which will slow movement. You can treat them as impassable, so you have to walk round You can treat them as open, so they don't impact movement at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Great thread, very helpful! As mentioned above, I'm also a Warmachine player and this is very useful for getting into a different mindset when it comes to terrain and Malifaux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted June 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 For low walls, I've quite often just said they take 1" extra if you cross them. It's not in the rules, but it's very fast in practice, and stops any confusion.As with any terrain, the important thing is to discuss before the game what things represent. Because when you have a VP or model in the balance is not the best time to discuss whether a wall blocks movement or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey616 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 For low walls, I've quite often just said they take 1" extra if you cross them. It's not in the rules, but it's very fast in practice, and stops any confusion. As with any terrain, the important thing is to discuss before the game what things represent. Because when you have a VP or model in the balance is not the best time to discuss whether a wall blocks movement or not. I agree. We also use the "extra inch" method when it comes to small ht 1 walls/fences. It does work real quick and slick... Dependent on what crews people are playing, and whether both players are happy with it, we sometimes still play the breakable terrain rules too... I think the important answer to the argument at the time was, "You try telling killjoy or chompy that he can't boot a hole in the puny shed" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey616 Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 That said I can understand why say a canine remains might have problems with paying the extra inch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavicusPrime Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Looks like i need to reread the terrain and movement rules... The way we've been playing hills is that they slow movement moving up and down. So hills are a combo of blocking, height increase and movement impeding. Is that how the rules read or are we doing it wrong. I like there to be some elevation changes on my table but it is tricky making it work. Something i know I need to add more of is a combo of scatter terrain for Ht 1/2 cover and some linear obstacles (fallen trees, wooden fences, etc.). What terrain attributes would you give something like a wooden paddock fence (pig pens to be exact). My guess would be they should be soft cover, climbable. -DavicusPrime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Looks like i need to reread the terrain and movement rules... The way we've been playing hills is that they slow movement moving up and down. So hills are a combo of blocking, height increase and movement impeding. Is that how the rules read or are we doing it wrong. I like there to be some elevation changes on my table but it is tricky making it work. Something i know I need to add more of is a combo of scatter terrain for Ht 1/2 cover and some linear obstacles (fallen trees, wooden fences, etc.). What terrain attributes would you give something like a wooden paddock fence (pig pens to be exact). My guess would be they should be soft cover, climbable. -DavicusPrime Hill will have whatever traits you five them. Having said that, making it hard to walk up them seems like overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clement Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 I think the text suggests hills only block line of sight if you are stanind on opposite sides of the apex of the hill or something... like a more specific version of blocking. What's sort of annoying about hills in my area is that they are all built like warmachine hills (steep edges). Its nice that the model is stable, but its a serious lip that you aren't calling a climbable face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavicusPrime Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Mine have 45 degree slopes that rise an 1" over the space of 1"... you can kinda place models depending on how well balanced the model is, but we typically use an object to prop them up so they stay standing. -DavicusPrime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 You can also use a spare base to represent the models location on the slanted surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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