esqulax

Have people had more time to test out Malisaurus? It might be one of the models I have heard the most different opinions about. It can do some ok things, but overall it might seem a bit subpar to me on paper? 4df/4wp I imagine might also make it too easy to take out, but what do you guys think ?

We can argue semantics, but I would say that when a model is nerfed through a game rule, rather than anything on it's own card then it is an indirect nerf. The indirect nerf can then still be intended, which it was. But yes, they definitely didn't correctly buff cheap models to make up for it. I hadn't considered the focus change to affect cheap models, but you are right that it also did.

I have several times made the exact point that Wyrd failed to consider the massive indirect nerf that pass tokens were to cheap models and therefore a lot of cheap models end up borderline useless in m3. Yes there are some that can be handy for scoring various schemes and objectives, but the cheap models that are focused on fighting are typically way worse than hiring an expensive model to get the job done.

You just answered your own question. It increases the odds of the model having synergy with the crew. Zoraida drawing LOS from Swamp fiends for example.

I am curious, how does your average crew look approximately?

I very much agree, the only one I might argue with is Lucius. I feel it is more a problem with his crew than him. Agent 46 understandably had his "no cheat" ability changed, but they really should have given him some buffs at the same time to not make him terrible.

I have had a lot of discussions about Neverborn with my local meta and I feel they are in a pretty off spot in m3. They are definitely not weak, but the internal balance in the faction is not very good. Dreamer is a lot stronger than all our other masters and our keyword models are often worse than our versatile models which are very strong. It should be the other way around. Dreamer: cool and thematic design, extremely fun to play and his keyword synergizes nicely with each other. Sadly he is just too strong and outshines all our other masters. I can think of no situation where I wouldn't pick dreamer if I was only playing to win. Zoraida: most likely our second strongest master. She has a lot of cool tricks and her keyword models are mostly very solid and fills various roles. Euripides: way better than people give him credit for. Lots of flexibility in the crew and some strong keyword models that synergize well with the crew as a whole. I believe people make the mistake or playing him as a melee beater which he is not, but he is very good at shutting down zones with his pillars. Could be my personal favourite to play in m3. Pandora: she got changed a ton during beta testing for m3 which i feel really shows in her final design which I think is fiddly and since her keyword auras dont stack, you are often penalized for playing heavily in keyword. Candy however is completely crazy and has the means to win the game on her own if the other player doesn't have an answer for her. Often outshining Pandora herself in that regard. Sadly the rest of her keyword is just not that good. Lucius: cool master, but sadly most of his keyword models are just too squishy and he is stronger ordering around a pair of black blood shamans/mature nephelim than he is with his actual keyword. Titania: Titania herself is extremely strong and much more so than she first seems on paper. Sadly her entire keyword is resoundingly "meh" and she is much better with our good versatiles than with fairies Nekima: very strong master who actually wants to play in keyword. Her play style of bunching her entire crew up the first round to have black blood shamans attack friendly models and then pulse out infinite focus does feel a bit gimmicky and unintended though. Marcus: Marcus might have my pick for worst master in the game. His crew is crazy card hungry and his playstyle of handing out upgrades to his models would only be cool if it made those models better than other models, instead of just making them on par. Once Marcus is done handing out the important upgrades his purpose disappears and he is often running around scheming, which is not the most exciting use of a master.

This is honestly a pretty weird review. On one master it seems you are reviewing the rules and on the next it seems you are reviewing the aesthetics?

Ahh yes ofc you only can. Pardon the brainfart.

Let's say I have one hired gaming and two summoned of the same type. If I then activate the two summoned and get rid of their slow and activate the gaming without slow to make it into a golem, will the summon upgrade then count as "attached" again so that the golem gets slow, even if none of the gamin that combined had slow ?

Can I just quickly point out that when masters like Kirai and Asami are perhaps near the bottom of that list, that really just illustrates how good the rest of them are. (Maybe with the exception of Sonia, but I am not sure I would consider her a real summoner)

Pulse focus is definitely the biggest issue, but I still have a problem with the way focus works in general. It is not exactly due to it being overpowered, but having your models take one action and then focus is often the correct choice early in the game, and it gives you an advantage if your opponent doesn't do it and rushes you down instead. This isn't exactly broken, but it just feels against the spirit of the game and I don't see a point in having the game rewards the player who plays defensively.

This thread has spiralled from what was just imo a fun joke but I feel it is incredibly silly to start up a dialogue about how you shouldn't make fun of other people and their hobbies, when it is so obvious a joke. I am sure if you went on any other forum about a game system they have jokes about how their game is awesome and other games are terrible. Anyway I am not gonna post more in here, but people acting like they are insulted (whether they were or not) at the benefit of others is a real pet peeve of mine. And over something as silly as a chad vs virgin meme of all things.

I have a very hard time with people who have such thin skin that they get insulted over a chad vs virgin meme. And people who call people toxic for that reason.

People who would feel insulted over a meme deserve to be insulted.

I just saw the new models. What on earth happened? I didn't think it was as bad as it is, but it is like they switched Chompy for a Daydream

I feel like you are arguing against a point that I didn't make. I never said that all cheap models are useless or can't take interact actions. I do still feel that there are way more bad models that are cheap than there are bad models that are expensive. I like that idea. I feel like you are contradicting yourself there. Summoning being broken in other systems does not excuse summoners being overtuned in Malifaux

I feel like that nerf to focus would be way too harsh and would require much more rebalancing than not letting focus stack up to high amounts. I also feel that using an action to focus and hit harder in the midst of combat goes way better with the intent of the game and makes a lot more sense flavor wise rather than standing still and powering up by letting focus stack to high amounts. I agree that part of what makes summoning masters too good, is too easy access to ways to mitigate their supposed weaknesses (card draw for example). I do not agree that, that is the sole reason they are above the curve. Dreamer for example, does a very good job of being overtuned just by being Dreamer.

Well I do believe stacking focus is a problem due to the reasons in my original post, but I definitely agree that spending an action to focus and then attacking afterwards is not a problem

True, but my point isn't that cheap models have no role or all are useless, but a very large number of them are just plain bad. Off the top of my head there are Bloodwretches, Orderlies, Terror Tots, Corrupted Hounds, Molemen, Hoarcats etc. Well I don't argue that pass tokens aren't a good addition to the game, but I was actually of the belief that most people seemed to think summoners were overtuned this edition. Also I am curious what beater master can kill the summoned model in a single action ? And what summoners in 2ed you consider as strong as the ones now? (With the exception of Nicodem near the end of 2.ed)

Now let me start off by saying that I absolutely love this game. It is by far the best miniature game I have ever played, so all my critique in this post is fueled by nothing but love for an amazing game and a hope to see it continue to get even better. I will also make a quick point that I have won several local leagues/tournaments, not to try and brag, but just to point out that I do at least have some experience with the game and am not just some guy who lost his first few games and decided to make a whining forum post. That said I do have three areas where I feel like third edition took a step back compared to second. 1. Cheap models. I have said this before, but I feel like Wyrd really failed to consider the massive indirect nerf that pass tokens were to cheap models. It was not uncommon in second edition to take cheap models solely for the extra activations, but now since that is no longer an option there are a whole bunch of 3-5 SS models that are all but useless. Sure a game with as many options as Malifaux will always have some of those options be less viable, but if we look at all 3-5 SS models compared to all 8+ SS models I feel like the percentage of models I would never choose to field is way, way higher in the 3-5 SS bracket. 2. The change to Focus. Malifaux third edition strove to streamline the game, which in my opinion was a good thing. I believe that is also why Wyrd changed focus to not run out at the end of a turn so that Focus and Defensive could be combined into one action. So far though, it has not been my experience that focus gets used defensively very often, instead I often see models stacking focus to 3-4, before the initial fighting occurs, which to me breaks the intent of the game and nullifies a lot of models defensive abilities that focus on giving minus flips. The problem here is twofold. Firstly, models that pulse out focus are way too action efficient, when you can bunch up your crew and give focus to around 7 models with one action. Secondly, in strat/scheme pools were it is possible to play defensively, it is not uncommon to see models take one action and then concentrate to save up focus. This means that the guy who plays offensively and spends his actions engaging the enemy rather than concentrating will be at a disadvantage when he arrives. I do not believe that it is healthy for any game system to have a built in mechanic that rewards a camping playstyle. I would really love to see a change to focus as it currently exists and either have it decay at the end of a turn or not have it be stackable. 3. Summoner masters. Long story short, I feel like summoner masters are too powerful as the game is right now. If I were to make a list of the top 10 strongest masters currently, it would almost just be a list of the various masters that can summon. I believe the problem primarily lies in the fact that summoner masters are too good at negating what are supposed to be their weaknesses. You need a high card to summon in the model? Most summoner masters have really good card draw. The summon comes in with slow? Most summoner masters can easily remove the condition. This is all coupled with the fact that most summoners summon their models in with full hp, compared to second edition where they had usually taken some damage when they entered the board. This makes them unbelievably good at grinding out the game. I feel like Wyrd were onto the right track by making summon upgrades, but these should really have had some kind of negative stipulation attached to them to make the summoned model a weaker version of itself. Giving all summoner masters different debuffs to the models they summon could also really help setting the different masters apart making them feel unique. TLDR: Cheap models are mostly too weak, focus is a bad game mechanic the way it currently is and summoner masters are too strong. What do you think? Am I completely in the wrong here ?

I have always been playing that a 30mm model cannot block LOS between two other 30mm models, but I can see there is an example of this happening in the rulebook. Now I have always been told that a 30mm model can't block LOS to a scheme marker even when standing perfectly on top of it, but how can this be true if a 30mm model can block LOS between to other 30mm models? Is this also not true ?

Very solid melee attack, ambush, demise eternal. It is a very good option in a Zoraida crew.

If the model is so unwieldy that I need to use a proxy base for it, then I don't even see a reason to buy it. I might as well just print a photo of it and stick it on a base.

Indeed you do. That is also why I would vastly prefer that they didn't But if they absolutely insist on making the models bigger and bigger then the current bases wont work. The new Chompy is already ridiculous going far out of his base on both sides, and this model looks to be even worse. Do not misunderstand me though. I would definitely prefer that they just made models that actually fit on their bases.