hydranixx

I like the idea, but not with a Gunsmith. He's basically a waste of ss outside Ironside lists, and even there, he's probably never as good as Mages are. He's a damaging model, and when you buy a damaging model that has no utility, you want it to be outputting its ss cost in minimum damage each turn past the first. He's outputting only 4 or 6, depending if you want to spend AP and to give him fast. Mages on the other hand, are 1ss cheaper and output arguably more damage (Ca vs Sh) with easier triggers ( for everything rather than one trigger per suit) and those triggers either add a bit of utility or even more damage if you pick Burning. The Railworker though, that could definitely pull it's weight with Carlos. It's cheaper, tankier, and when you get a lucky moderate or severe, hits pretty damn hard too. As you say, Implacable Assault takes them from good to great rather fast, and doesn't require a suit or AP from other models to work. I am intrigued by this list, but I feel it's too low in the damage spectrum. The Performer adds to the control element as you say, but I still think you want more raw damage for your 5ss investment. You'd keep Carlos safe and sound, but I think you might struggle to kill their Henchman and keep applying the control at the same time. On the positive side, I really like to see Angelica in the format!; I think she's absolutely exceptional in HH. Disguised + Automatic pushes on her attacks = gold. That's without even considering the extra things she brings to the table. I made a few filthy, push-centric control lists, looking at The Captain, Angelica and Blessed of December as the core to push and then slow, paralyse or otherwise debilitate their crew. What I'd love to see is a HH list rocking Cassandra as the leader, with Smoke and Mirrors & Imbued Protection. Everyone focuses on killing the leader in this format, and this would be one of the hardest to actually hit (Df7, Southern Charm, Smoke & Mirrors dash) and has a 5ss cache for prevention on the off chance she is ever hit. Here's how I'd do it: Cassandra - Smoke & Mirrors, Imbued Protection. Angelica Coryphee Mannequin With Charm up, Cass is essentially never losing duels from Charge or Flurry attacks (S&M blink is awesome). If your opponent ever fails to hit her, there's a good chance she will power up Angelica's attacks with the free scheme marker. To further the frustration, Angelica herself and the Coryphee are completely immune to Charges, so your opponent can't really get stuck in on their terms with their heavy hitters. The Coryphee and Mannequin are tough nuts to crack. More importantly, they can both hand out Slow up to twice per turn. This is a big deal when you're already invalidating most Charge actions, pushing enemies outside the Turf War area, possibly applying paralyse etc. You'd need to hold onto every decent drawn, and try your best to get Slow on any big hitter looking to attack Cassandra. Your opponent will be looking to Focus and attack Cass to get around Charm, so Slow shuts this down quite nicely. Thoughts, @spooky_squirrel?

Interesting, I've never seen much attention at all given to this upgrade. Presumably you run it with some decoy upgrades elsewhere in the list? Is there anyone else you commonly use as a holder of Killswitch, or the decoy(s)?

My gut feeling is that Lynch, Mr Graves and Thunder Brothers would be ridiculously flexible choices, especially when used together. Dark Debts + Mr Graves + Thunder Brothers is $72 on Wyrd's store, which is only half the budget and already a very solid base to work with. Add in Samurai/Archers/Snipers for some ranged options to give it some reach, and there'd still have enough for another master's Box set if desired, or perhaps some support/specialist models such as Yin, Toshiro, Monks or Mr Tannen.

The plethora of ranged damage Guild offers really hurts, and if you don't have a plan to work around that, you can get tabled quite easily. One thing in our favour is that there's not a lot of armour-ignoring models outside of specific Masters (Perdita, Lucas' Sabre, McMourning's buffs), so you can sometimes get decent results just man-moding it with a big fat tank or two - Joss, Rail Golem, Emissary, Snowstorm etc, partnered with some healing to keep them going. Langston can offer soft cover to everyone within 4" for a turn and since he has Nimble it's not a huge waste to spend 1 AP to do it. Against Guild, you can consider it like a mini version of Mei (It's even referred to as a steam cloud, too). Of course, he's not there to deploy steam every turn, he's there to rack up the kill count and die! But on turn 1, that cover can be incredibly useful to help your crew mitigate incoming fire. Also, almost all Guild are Living, so his Terrifying (12) can be very potent against them. To be blunt, the best anti Guild tech that isn't Mei that I can think of, is Snowstorm. It hands out Bulletproof +1 to nearby allies, while having a tremendous Bulletproof +3 on itself. If Snowstorm gets among the enemy, it should have no problem killing pretty much any dedicated supporter/shooter they have (two-thirds of their faction). I think Snowstorm solves a lot of issues for Arcanists, and should be considered even if you're not going with the Frozen Heart theme. It's a very brittle match up. Both masters become better at hurting whoever's on fire, but Kaeris has incentives to put her own models on fire. If she risks the AP and resources to do this though, Sonnia's raw casting power can be decisive enough to just straight up murder most of them in record time. As the healing only takes effect at the end of the turn, most Sonnia crews, which are well known for raw ranged damage output, will have plenty of time to dispatch the models they need to kill and ignore the ones they don't. There's also the ever-present issue of Kaeris simply not being in the right place so all your Burning just kills your stuff instead of healing it. Sonnia often hires Death Marshals and the Brutal Emissary, both of which can pinebox Kaeris on a critical turn. Of course, Guild could also simply kill Kaeris; if any faction has a chance of outright randomly killing your Master, it's them with all their damn Critical Strike. You can spread Burning much more conservatively, and deny Sonnia her targeting buffs, but by that point you're really playing a pretty neutered version of Kaeris. To be honest, a lot of Sonnia players use her without any real commitment or consideration to Burning anyway - it's a Witch Hunter subtheme that pales in comparison to her extraordinary damage potential. I think the edge goes to Sonnia if the player's are both experienced and roughly equal skill. It's definitely a fun match up though . It feels a little bit like playing against the Viks with anyone; both players are on the razor's edge. I recommend that you try it.

Cheers for the ideas, Currently, she's got Johan and a pair of trappers, perhaps I should have mentioned that. Sue and Strongarm it is then! Any love for Deso Engine?

I'm looking to add some things to my missus' Outcast collection, potentially for Christmas if they show up in time (the alternative is jewelry for the third straight year -_- ). She currently plays Levi, but really likes the prospect of picking up Jack Daw; I wish to acquire the yellow transparent set whilst it's on offer. My question to you , is what small box(es) are worth it for both of them? I'm leaning towards Dead Outlaws (who seem groovy with Parker too, a distant-future prospect for myself), but what else works well for these two?

Please keep us posted! I'm interested in acquiring Goryo, and I'd love to hear your feedback on them.

Wp vs Arcanists, yeah it can pretty rough. Much of our resilience comes from abilities rather that raw stats; our Wp stats are usually only in the 4 - 6. Heavy WP targeting doesn't care about our Armour or Df triggers or even cover for that matter, and Arcanists don't have many Ruthless models as far as I'm aware. One of the most helpful concepts to respect is that of threat saturation. Sure, your opponent can paralyse or debilitate or even kill one of your dudes, but if you have lots of cheaper models you can still persist in your game plan. WP based attacks tend to focus on one model at a time (Pandora is perhaps an exception to this rule of thumb) so if you suspect you'll face lots of WP attacks, consider bringing a bigger crew. I play 2-3 Raptors in all of my Arcanist games. There's exceedingly few scenarios where they're a liability, and they can either completely deny schemes and strategies all by themselves or get in your opponent's face and eat AP. Even fully knowing their low WP, they can be thrown aggressively into things like Belles or Sorrows and perhaps even meddle with their deck on a trigger. Considering they're only 3ss I view them as very expendable in these situations and I really don't mind if the Belle or Sorrow uses its more important activation trying to escape or fight the Raptor. As mentioned, Oiran & Arcane Effigy are also each splendid choices. Oiran can be expensive at 6ss if you don't make full use of their aura, so make sure you're stacked with living models and premeasuring between the Oiran and them a lot. Adding in a single Oiran while providing lots of living threats can prove just to hard to crack. Effigy is generally quite valuable for 4ss even if you only ever used it for running schemes and only ever looked at the front of it's card. The fact that it can strip a single condition with any sort of duel required is outstanding against paralyse and other debilitating things that Ressers and NB can hand out. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Overtime, I've come to feel like Mei is a best used as a simple counter pick that exists to try deny your opponent from using their most potent offensive tools. Usually, it's against guns (she's my auto pick against Guild ), but she's also pretty handy against Horror duels and conditions in general. She's not complex or tricky or convoluting; she just jumps at the offending Horror duel source, ignores their paralyse effect and then asks your opponent if they're happy being on or for all their actions.

I think Ten Thunders are fairly middle of the pack faction as far as 'evil' goes. Thunders have intricate goals, many of which are questionable and lucrative, but they're not a vicious corporate conglomerate instilling outright brutal oppression and sadism while pretending to care about people like the Guild. The Guild's sole goal in Malifaux is to protect the soulstone trade. They provide a modicum of protection to citizens and workers only to help them reach their soulstone quotas. There are some genuinely good people with good intentions in the Guild, but their command is corrupt to the core. Read some material about what Sonnia and the Witch Hunters subfaction get up to.

It was Chiaki in fact, though I had thought she was not Incorporeal. I... have a lot to learn yet :L

You already have 2 masters for a tertiary faction, I don't think you need many more. Perhaps get 1 extra master that you like the theme of. As for suggested small boxes, spooky squirrel has given sound advice. The suggestions I'd add are as follows: Johan - especially with Kaeris & Ironsides as they're M&SU masters; Ironsides gives Johan a potent buff if he takes damage and Kaeris can heal him or enhance his mobility. He gains buffs himself from being near M&SU and can heal M&SU as well. Arcane Effigy - budget condition removal, scheme running and tough as nails. Has very good synergies with Mei Feng, and Kaeris to some extent with its (0). Also, it looks fantastic (easily one of the most aesthetic models in the Arcanist faction) Malifaux Raptors - great disruption pieces (superb in Interference), and have really powerful synergy with Kaeris' Grab & Drop limited upgrade and Showgirl's Practised Production upgrade for long ranged scheme marker placement. If you go the Colette route, or buy Angelica (do it she's dope), you'll be pleased to have these on hand. Amina Naidu, proxied. Everything about this new Henchman just reeks of filth, in all the right ways. She's synergistic with Academics and M&SU so is a natural fit with Sandeep, Kaeris & Ironsides as well as any Mages you may decide to bring. Even outside these synergies, I think a shrewd player with Amina is going to be able to really screw with his opponent and control the tempo of the game.

Haha, well it's debatable. That would technically dehumanise half our faction. FfM seems interesting with Coryphee... you can't form the duet if you want your 3 points... but they are really fast and your opponent will almost always want to kill them early to stop the duet forming in the first place.

It seems like there's very few competitive players in Auckland, so I'd look forward to a tough match if/when Weston returns. I'll be honest, my last game was against Ten Thunders (you know the culprit, haha), and even then an Austringer showed up since McCabe was leading. If you replace that part where you wrote "Gamin" with "Arcane Effigy" or "Malifaux Raptor", you're spot on. Gamin themselves... Not so much, unless Mech Rider summons them. I'd pick a variation of about half the available Arcanist upgrades over almost all available Gamin. Well, ok to be totally fair, we might see some more Gamin showing up as Sandeep & Wind Gamin get more common. It's just that most other Gamin - Fire, Metal, Ice & Poison - are only ever 'ok' grudge purchases outside of exceptional circumstances.

I finally got my first game in with Coryphee, and I see what you mean. They're definitely finesse models, and they're not nearly as point and click as some other models can be. I did manage to win the game itself, but the Duet did not perform (ha) as well as I had hoped. I was locking down and out activating the opponent (lots of Raptors and summoning Spiders) while buffing the Coryphee with pushes, Reactivate and s. However, even with double to attacks and defence (Under Pressure + Field Generator) it couldn't deal with Incorporeal, and I managed to fail my last attack so I couldn't push away. See, the thing about Glowing Sabre is... well, Armour is meaningless, and 7 Wounds does not last long. I think my main errors were having them Dance Together prematurely, and committing them to a fight with something Incorporeal. Failing their attack to push away really hurt too! Are there any factions you won't consider them against, since there's an abundance of ways to get around their durability, or to counter their attacks? Would you ever play them in tandem with Langston, in a particularly aggressive list?

Agreed. Anything cheap, fast and somewhat resilient to deny points is worth considering in Interference. @Lizzy Lovecraft: I did read the thread on the Arcanist forum that your opponent posted; with those schemes in mind as well, Night Terrors become even more awesome because Occupy their Turf is really quite easy for them to threaten or to fake. Regular Rotten Belles are easily fast enough to get into your opponent's half of the board (especially if you are going with Sybelle, which your opponent alluded to,) to help threaten Occupy their Turf, pull friendly models back to remove Exhaust if they get tagged by it, or to pull enemies in to either Exhaust them, or just to engage them so they can't score for Interference and can't get rid of Exhaust if you put it on them. All round, they're fantastic in your scheme and strat pool I think. Hunting Party is in the pool, so taking lots of minions has its risks. But I don't see how you can compete for Interference without lots of minions, so you I think you just have to accept that if he wants Hunting Party, you might concede 3vp for it. Luckily, with all the Steam Arachnids that are planned to be there, you can easily pick up the Hunting Party points yourself.

It can work, though then you need to hire a Last Blossom enforcer/henchman just to carry the upgrade. It's probably not worth basing a list on it at that point. McCabe buffs their speed in a straight forward way; simply give them Reactivate or Nimble, or both, and they become very terrifying. They're resilient enough (the 8W, Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill & Eat Your Fill combo) that they take a lot of firepower to put down. I suppose they're vaguely similar to Peacekeepers in that sense, but their abilities can often be more useful than Armour for defense, and they're cheaper. And, yes, there are also those lists, disgusting & despicable lists, where McCabe and 3 Jorogumo is a thing. I'm glad I've never had to face such lists because they sound really, really challenging to handle if you're not prepared for it.

Go for it! When you see Interference+Exhaust+Occupy in one scheme pool, Ramos is indeed quite a strong pick. But there's a little tweaking you can try to get a slightly stronger list. Especially since you know which master you're up against, I'd consider altering your list, to make the spiders a little more efficient, thusly: Steam Arachnids are very daunting for a Molly player (their Evasive ability is amazing against Molly) but they won't last forever if there's Shikome or Punk Zombies tearing into them. Any buffs to their Df would be greatly appreciated. You also will want them to consistently succeed their disengaging strikes to keep enemies stuck to them (good in Exhaust and Interference) and if they desperately need to try kill something on it's last wound (very common against Molly) you need to hit those Ml 4 attacks. To these ends, I recommend Field Generator & Under Pressure. They're expensive upgrades, but they buff your spiders so substantially (you're already spending 32ss on Steam Arachnids, so you need to get a good return investment on them) that I think they're almost mandatory. You could consider dropping Electrical Summoning to save a ss and an upgrade slot; the creation doesn't really help since it's a peon and needs a tome to summon in. You'll also want his (0) Magnetism free to target Rogue Necro or any summoned Students of Steel (who will be extremely painful for you) since they're constructs. As for Hans, his ability to shoot into combat is decent, but he's just not as useful as Anna Lovelace. She's well worth the 10ss cost (merc tax inclusive). She can also shoot into combat without randomising, just like Hans, but has the added bonuses of Rush of Magic, a (0) to displace enemies (top notch in Interference) a powerful anti placement/anti push abilities that absolutely shut down things like Dead Doxies and Sybelle operating close to her. She evens summons more models as she shoots at people. So my humble suggestions, whilst keeping to the theme of your list, would be: - 14ss - Hans, Electrical Summoning, 1 Steam Arachnid. +14ss - Field Generator, Under Pressure, Anna Lovelace.

Yeah, I think you could make the Peacekeeper work for you. It's one of those polarising models - it will dominate games if your opponent can't deal with it, especially with McCabe there to speed it up and give it extra oomph, but if they have attacks with Ignore Armour or can lock it down, then you lose out on a huge investment. If your missus is in fact going Neverborn, your Peacekeeper should beware of Retributions Eye (upgrade for ignoring armour) and the bounteous WP tricks that Neverborn as a faction has. I would imagine they make Peacekeepers very sad. Something else to ponder - everything you have so far, as well as the Hounds you wish to add, can be played alongside McCabe as Ten Thunders too. McCabe likes his Dawn Serpents and Jorogumo, and a lot of Thunders' models seem to benefit from his upgrade-handout play style even more than Guild models do. Have you had a look at what Ten Thunders have to offer?

That's the term I was looking for, 'crutch'. I reckon it's a more accurate description for a lot of those models or upgrades that show up a lot than 'auto include'. Mechanical Rider certainly does fit the description. It can fulfill many roles and score almost any scheme, and I can understand why some people rely on it. I would be equally stumped if it died on Turn 1. Especially with it's price tag, there are times that your ss are better spent elsewhere. I've read a bit of dialogue about Francisco - discerning if he's actually worth hiring as frequently as he is. No doubt he's great, but is he really so great that he's always worth the 9-10ss? Maybe, maybe not. Could it be a crutch? Many people on the Guild forum openly state him as such. So, lacking personal experience with him (even when I play against him he ends up killing himself most of the time..) I tend to agree with your comments. When (or if) I play against a Guild player who doesn't hire at least one Austringer, I'll make a mental note of it and talk with them about it.

What a bargain! I wish I had found something like that when I began Malifaux. It's been the same for me as well, with regards to generating some interest in the game with my partner. I've found Malifaux attracts people from all walks of life, regardless of age, gender, ethnicity or background. I think it's partly due to the variety of themes and aesthetics that Wyrd's explored in the setting; there's at least one thing that appeals to every new prospective player, and partly due to the community being kind and generous, and not very elitist. Guild Hounds are fantastic in my opinion, and never better than when McCabe is your leader. There are very few times you'd play him without at least a few of them, and Luna should pretty much always make an appearance too. They're a great choice! You could consider McCabe's "core" as 2 Hounds + Luna + upgrades, and from there, you work the rest of your list around the objectives. The Peacekeeper is an odd choice. I don't think I've ever seen McCabe hire it. I assume he could cure it's innate slowness with Badge of Speed, so there's that going for you. I hear Sidir is reasonably tough, and has the added advantages of Ruthless, a self heal, being a Henchman (so he can use soulstones defensively) and not being able to be pushed by enemies. He's also got access to holding Promises. He's not a fantastic choice all the time, but he's reliable. I mention him because you already own him if you have McCabe's box so it's a way to save some money short term. Similarly, Nurse Heartsbane's a really interesting model I recommend you try out. She's a little more tricky as she's suit reliant, but she's got a lot of movement and tempo control, which contrasts and complements what Guild normally excels at. The 'Austringer advice' for any new Guild player holds true for McCabe, and I would rate them above Peacekeeper. Most of the time McCabe picks a fairly fragile crew, fully knowing that some of his models will die, but that your models are flexible and fast so you can secure your VP even so. Adding Hounds + Austringers to what you already have would give you a really good starting pool to work with. At any rate, welcome aboard, and I hope you and your SO find something in the game that's just right for you!

Well said. I agree with you in that Austringers are only 'really, really good' with half the masters. However they're still perfectly feasible options with the other Guild masters too. There are combinations with them and Hoffman (using Emissary, or so I hear), and Guild McMourning + Austringers seems like a very efficient scheme running list (plus he can give them precision to beat through undead or armour) etc. I think what makes them exceptional is their price tag. A meager 6ss, for everything they bring to the table, is why they're the first thing anyone recommends to any prospective new Guild player. People would still hire them at 7ss. I half agree; my Arcanist perspective is that we have no auto include models, but do have auto include upgrades. Perhaps that speaks leagues about how diverse Arcanist masters are. The closest I'd get to auto include models are our Malifaux Raptors purely for their horrendous mobility and rock bottom price of 3ss. I'll probably have 1 in every list I play. While it's true that not all masters 'need' them, they're still such superb, general-purpose upgrades that they find their way into almost all crews I see. Unique upgrades for each master are definitely the priority, but after those are taken care of, these 2 upgrades essentially become automatic add-ons to fill up all remaining slots. The only dilemma occurs when when they have only 1 slot left, and have to pick between either StD or AR instead of both, lol. I like the upgrade system itself. It's just a little odd that some of them are basically must-have requirements. I can't think of a time McCabe didn't take Glowing Sabre and Badge of Speed, for example. They appear so integral to the Master that he cannot function without them and at that point, 'upgrade' doesn't sound generous enough a term for what they are to McCabe lol. Food for thought.

Correct, the spell can still target the model and subsequently Paralyse it, even if it lacks actions. From playing with and against Pandora, her strengths are suited to games where control of the centre is important - she's very powerful at Turf War, Extraction, Squatter's Rights etc.

I reiterate; each and every source of Misery within 6" contributes to the damage of your host, one point of damage at a time, when you fail your WP duel. Each of these points of damage independently return one point of damage to those nearest your host, due to Black Blood. Assuming your Zombie is on 2 wounds as you say, and that Pandora and at least 1 Sorrow nearby (6"), as soon as you cast and hit the zombie with Shriek, it dies, because it loses both wounds to Misery, before Shriek gets to make a damage flip. This will hand 2 ticks of damage back with Black Blood if he's really close to them, but it's not going to be handing out 4 damage like you say, and certainly nowhere near 8 damage... since he dies before the Blast can be placed. As long as there's at least two instances of Misery (Pandora often hires 1-2 Sorrows to maximise WP damage), you can never even do damage with your WP attacking Blasts when you only have 2 wounds; you simply die to Misery first. That's why I thought a hired Doxy, or a Belle perhaps, coupled with Shriek, is a really good choice here.

Well, punk zombies have Hard to Wound, so if you hit your own one you're going to have to either Focus first or cheat a pretty high card (12+, assuming Shriek) just to ensure a straight flip for damage. However, it could well be worth it; I think the damage is even higher than you note. If you do in fact hit your own model with Sybelle's Shriek, Black Blood can trigger many more times in this little equation as far as I can discern; As soon as your model loses the WP duel (Shriek targets WP iirc), it instantly gets nuked by Pandora's Misery (potentially multiple times if there's multiple Sorrows nearby) and each time Misery hits it, your model triggers a new, separate tick of Black Blood. If your model survives the Misery onslaught, this is then followed up by the actual damage of Shriek if the model's still alive, which again produces another tick of Black Blood. If I've interpreted this correctly, then essentially you can get your Black Blood host model up close and personal next to Pandora and a Sorrow, then hit it with basically any damaging spell that targets WP and they're all taking at least 3 separate ticks of at least 1 damage, even before you factor in any potential s. If Pandora wants to soak wounds, we're still talking 6 wounds which will seriously hurt her. This only gets more painful if there's more Sorrows added in, as all models get another Misery/Black Blood induced wound for each extra Sorrow. I think a hired host model is a better choice than a summoned one, if at all possible, since it should be able to survive more stacks of Misery by virtue of having (hopefully) more wounds to begin with. A Dead Doxy seems like a perfect choice as it gets Black Blood no matter which version of Molly you choose, it gets a faster Wk with Sybelle nearby and can help to gather the clump of Sorrows+Pandora together with it's (0), while pushing itself into the optimum position to spread that lovely Black Blood + Misery aids. For extra salt, the Doxy may well die to Misery so it can still give Fast to an ally despite you being the one who targets it. Does this work, or have I missed something obvious?

I also find myself drawn to auto picking Mei against Guild. The few times I've tried other masters against Guild, even when I'm getting my victory points, I almost get tabled every time and have nothing left to deny enemy VP. You do run the risk of facing off against other masters that really don't mind facing off against Mei if you always pick her into Guild though. If McMourning/Hoffman/Lucas show up, Mei really isn't all that impressive. They can bring some really nasty things; Precision enhanced Peacekeepers/Executioners, loaned Langston's, Glowing Sabre hound missiles etc and all of these and more can handily ruin whatever Armour/Hard to Kill your Mei crew brings with it. I think it's a tough call. Mei is very powerful against most Guild models but if you let yourself get shoehorned into always picking her, it won't be long before the Guild players who you play against frequently hire their crews to counter Mei accordingly.