Setoth

"You'll want Stolen -- there might be one turn in a game where I don't summon one of the things. They can be weird bodyguards for Hamelin, but mostly you need models to sac for Hamelin's spells. Stolen are your target. If anyone comes close to Hamelin, Obedience them to charge away. If they are Immune to Influence, try to have a Stolen Succumb them. Not always easy, but many things that are Immune to Influence do not have a great Df. If you don't think an Obedience will work, use Understand the Soulless to force a Wp duel to attack you (any time you can make your opponent cheat is pure profit). Remember that if you summon a Stolen and then sac it, you can often do it in such a way that the -2Wp will hit your target, making most of your abilities easier. Pipes is your friend for anything Wp5 or less. With luck, you can do damage, get a Charge with it, and make it Insignificant. That's an amazing combination for 1AP. Even if it doesn't work out, you can probably get your opponent to cheat to avoid that." That's Lucidicide's post on the first page. And the issue is more tone than anything else. I realize I didn't help (hence why I went back and edited my post) but you sound very defeatist about a master that was previously nearly unbeatable, and continue to sound very deafetist to people who are regularly winning with him. Korrosion's comment was a joke but your response was going back to yet another reason Hamelin has difficulties winning. Which ruffles more feathers if you have yet to actually play a game and open up with the OP that you did.

I think we've started to see some recognition of that with book 4. Torekage, for example, and their smokescreens. I love that trigger precisely because keeping it beyond the start of the next turn creates a lot of strategic possibilities...that smoke screen can be up for roughly as long as you need it. Hell, a single trigger could keep the smokescreen up for the entirety of two turns if the Torekage activates first on the turn it uses the smokescreen and activates last on the turn right after.

It's the cycle of Life, Death, and Reanimation of every game I've ever seen that's even mildly successful

Reading the rules is only one component of determining how well a model/crew will work well. Read the rest of the forum. There are threads upon threads of ideas for crew compositions, model combinations, skill combinations, etc. where people come up with a theory...and then test that theory by playing it. Sometimes the idea works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes playing a random match sparked a crazy idea. All you can do by reading the rules and not playing is try to mentally simulate as many interactions between variables as possible. With no reference, no visualization of positioning, no terrain usage, not being put into dangerous situations and looking for answers in talents you may have dismissed etc. you're basically creating idealized situations in your head. And by idealized I don't mean "best situation possible," I mean ideas that conform to your logic and don't necessarily reflect what actually plays out. I'd suggest playing some games with Lucidicide's advice so far and see where it takes you, with regards to Obeys and all the rest. See how squishy Hamelin is in practice rather than in theory. Because I promise you as squishy as Hamelin's stats suggest, he's not as squishy as Kirai's 2 def 8 wounds-that-she-spends-to-summon and her army of spirits that don't block LOS. But she seems to do alright. Edited to remove uncalled for disrespectful tone.

I like the first one, just...not for Malifaux personally. I'd go with the Kami from Bushido so far. http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/Warlord/latest/14547 is one option, though not especially oriental. Lemures from Hell Dorado are another option. Each pack has 3 Lemures and there are 3 different packs to choose from. Not super oriental either though https://cipher-studios.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_44&products_id=497&zenid=vsqsslenda5ilupdo37de1rn66 http://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/P-65%20Heavy%20Metal/latest/65081 Another not-especially oriental option, but very cheap. https://cipher-studios.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_9&products_id=671&zenid=vsqsslenda5ilupdo37de1rn66 Not oriental, but certainly feels like "insidious madness" to me. If I think of any others I'll add them here.

Because if it didn't have that clause it would make Curiosity Calls almost completely worthless.

But the "including this model" portion refers to the first clause with the obscuring, not the second clause with the improved movement.

Ruleswise, basically what everyone else said. In order; Book 4, Book 1, Book 2, Book 3. That said, I really love the fluff and lore of Malifaux. In that regard, Book 4 is my least favorite. A lot of stuff got built up in Book 3 that had me asking lots of questions, but Book 4 didn't really touch as much as I would have hoped about the Tyrants and the plotting and the scheming. Book 2 was probably my favorite, followed closely by Book 3. Then Book 1, and lastly Book 4.

That piano is top notch. I'm imagining an after-hours ambush at the Honey Pot and the Illuminated is leaping onto-and-over the grand performance piano on the stage.

The internet is terrible for getting across tone. I propose an internet group hug. Hooray group hugs.

Dredd is basically The Raid meets Robocop 2.

Edit: This was supposed to be aimed at Fetid Strumpet but I clicked on the wrong quote thingy. What about an action like Last Words from the Hanged?

I've had a similar discussion before with someone I played. We only have the first original run of the rulebook to go by and were trying to figure out if Immune to Influence made you immune to simple Willpower Duels since it specified "when defending in a duel."

That's pretty hard core! Does it just come natural to you, or is it an acquired cycle?

I know that feeling. I'm a fairly nocturnal creature. If it were up to me I'd probably wake up some time around 4 in the afternoon and go to sleep at like 8 in the morning, which I sort of did during winter vacation. My body clock is ruined, and now I'm at work with no sleep. These adult hooman responsibilities suck. I'm thinking of becoming a bat instead.

To be fair, it's really hard to measure up to the twins regardless of soulstone cost.

Maybe we should all tone down the rhetoric just a little. It might be a bit better to open up with "I'm having trouble fighting X Master with my Y crew, a little help" than to proclaim a Master to be OP or imply a single model will always eradicate half your crew. Similarly suggesting someone hasn't "bothered" to read their own cards is a little bit much. On both accounts, Malifaux is a pretty steep game with lots of special rules and a learning curve. Some people figure out the curve better than others, some Masters are easier to understand on the lower end of the learning curve. It can be frustrating, but that complexity is half of what makes the game fun. Re Nino: Nino is mean, but he has a couple of significant weaknesses the 10T should be able to exploit. 1. Squishy: He's got def 4 and 8 wounds. He has no real defensive abilities other than the fact that he can ignore disengaging strikes with a 0 point action. If you get to him, killing him should not at all be a problem. 2. Slow: He's got a wk of 4. Even with Scout, which just helps in terrain, he's incredibly slow. Once Nino gets in trouble he's gonna have a very very hard time getting out of it. 3. LOS: Unlike Perdita, he has absolutely nothing that can counter smoke bombs. What I'm getting so far from what I'm reading is two possible problems. Either you're not playing with enough terrain, you haven't quite gotten a handle on the smoke bombs, or both. Even if Perdita wants to shoot through the smoke she has to lose 2 CB to do it, which puts her down to CB 5. While respectable, your Torekage will be at Def 6, which means she's at a small numerical disadvantage. The odds of needing to cheat or Soulstone just to match you go up significantly and all it's cost you is a Tome card for the smokebomb. Nino can't even do that properly. If he can't see you, he can't shoot you. And he's far too slow to properly reposition for a decent shot if you're smart about smoke bomb placement. And that's just one smoke bomb. If you cleverly use terrain, that single smoke bomb (which is a 0 point action, for the record) is all you need to get high cover from both of them. Hide from Perdita's guns behind terrain you can drop a smoke bomb wherever necessary to avoid Nino. Or vice versa. Either way one Torekage is causing a lot of chaos to the Ortega gunline by threatening a 7 soulstone model that stands little to no chance of hurting your ninja (again, assuming good smoke-bombing and terrain usage). Equally important to note is your mobility. Torekage move 5/8 which is fast. You can use Shadow Stride which means you have a pretty hard core threat-range. Let's say you have a Torekage move 5 inches, pop a smoke bomb, and use Mistaken Identity to swap with Misaki. She can move another 10 inches (or 15 if she takes a wound or has Yamaziko) to get dangerously close to Nino while still hugging terrain. That's about 15 - 20 inches of movement for her. And then another Torekage uses Shadow Stride, buries, and at the end of the turn pops somewhere within 8 inches of your Misaki. That's a LOT of ground to cover. Now that's not something to be super reckless about. Don't assume you can pop a Torekage in front of enemy lines and then just kill Nino right after. But it should give you an idea of how you can reposition your entire crew a LOT better than the Ortegas can. If Nino's further behind than the rest of the crew because of his gun range, smoke bombs and zippy movement can get you past the Ortegas real fast and immediately have a small strike team assembled behind their lines. The Ortegas have staggered speed and you can use that to your advantage.

You are correct, they are rare 6 if you start the game with McCabe or at least one Guild Trapper.

The PMF is a good start. Their opinion on the Waldgeist is about what I got from reading their entry in the first book. Also I think there was a discussion on Waldgeists and ALilith a bit of a ways back, but I might be wrong on that one. I've got no play experience myself but I've been wanting to try them out with my Zoraida some time. http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Waldgeist

I'd probably get at least one copy of everything she can summon no matter how useful/useless it appears. I'm not a big fan of Jaakuna Ubume but I'm getting her soon. The beauty of the Kirai list is that because of spirit summon you can continue to tailor your list AFTER the game starts and you've seen what the opponent has. Maybe Ubume fills a very niche role, but it's not like she takes up valuable soulstones in your list. But if there's ever a time where her very particular niche comes up and you need to flypaper something you can just summon her. It's nice to have that option. Edit: I missed the part where you only wanted spirits, so my Desperate Merc/Canine Remains suggestion wasn't any help Edit 2: Also the Drowned are spirits though they can't be summoned. I'm very new to Kirai so I've not used them or have experience dealing with them, but I figured since other Kirai players are here I'd bring them up. Does anyone use them considering you have to buy them with SS? Hat Trick Triple Edit: Thinking more about the Drowned, they could be really useful against high-def lists (Ortegas, Neverborn, etc) because of Bursting Spray. Get someone or something with high def. in the right position, or The Drowned in the right position with Spirit Movement Shenanigans and then kill them off with your own models to trigger bursting spray for damage and Seishin.

Haha wonderful timing, I still have holiday money too. Been on a gaming freeze thanks to grad school, job searching, and DJing music nights. But Malifaux still has a warm place in my heart. Just need to get off my lazy butt and start painting my Lynch crew :x Sounds like the tourney's got a lot of buzz. Wish I could be there

Oh hey, I've still got my Miss Terious wrapped up from the Storm of Shadows pre-order. I won't be running Guild (if I start a new faction it's gonna be Ressur for the spirits) so I've been meaning to donate her as prize support. Won't be able to make the tournament but I'll be stopping by earlier to pick something up with friends. I called DLair and they said if I just leave it with a note saying who it's for they should be able to hand it off alright. Sorry it's short notice, life got hectic recently and gaming's sort of taken a back seat. Hoping it'll be of some use in the future rather than just collecting dust.

Thinking about synergy between Lynch and the Stitched. A couple of thoughts came up. Is there some rule which limits the number of times a model can reactivate? If not then could you hypothetically speaking do three total activations for a Stitched Together? Assuming Brilliance: 1. Activate, do nonsense. Ends first activation. 2. Gets killed. Unkills itself. Reactivates. Ends second activation. 3. Hi-Def casts "Serve Me." Ends third activation and is removed from the table. Also while we're on that general train of thought, what about giving Brilliance to your Stitched Togethers? Hi-Def could hand out permanent Brilliance with the trigger, or just about any model could give them Brilliance and you could keep them close to the Beckoners to Keep the Party Going. That nets them the benefits of the Source for a bit of extra mobility as well as making them plausible targets for "Serve Me." Thirdly, is it just me or does Lynch's crew give a lot of mobility to the Stitched? Bar's Closed and Come Hither could really go a long way towards moving the Stitched Around, and even the Source helps a little bit. Other thoughts/ideas?

That plays nicely with the Dreamer's rant about being Ahriman and a host of other Gods after Pandora asks him if he is a Tyrant. The old gods and religions could be memories of the Tyrants for the humans of Malifaux that fled to earth?

It's hard to say who they're more like without knowing much about the 3k themselves. We actually don't know all that much about the Ten Thunders besides the terms they use (Oyabun, for example, which is a Yakuza term) and the fact that they're infiltrating Malifaux. That second part leans a bit more towards Triads, but if they're actually serving the nationalistic interests of 3k with soulstone trade then maybe they actually operate in the open back at home, which would land them firmly in the Yakuza territory rather than the Triads. I mean the Yakuza in the 'states don't operate like they do in Japan. The Yamaguchi-gumi have offices publicly listed and out in the open for everyone to see. I definitely wouldn't say that of the Yoshiitomi here in Austin >.> Edit: It amuses me to no end that the swear filter blocks out the name of a Japanese crime syndicate.