Therril_83

Don't forget that as both of their attacks are Wp-based, they trigger Misery from Pandora and/or Sorrows, aswell as Smell Fear from Teddy.

Wording of Show Ya the Door is "<...>This model may only target a friendly model with this Action once per Turn." So you can get as many uses out of it as you have models with the ability, ie once for Mr Graves and once for Doppleganger. Obeying and similar would not increase this, but other models able to copy the ability would. Can't think of any others though.

I've reflected some more on this, and even though I'm still not 100% on how I would want to interpret the wording, I did come to think of another aspect from a balance point of view. Since healing flips are cheatable in this edition, only doing one flip and applying it to all models would be quite alot more powerful than doing one flip per model. As investing a severe card on that one flip would affect all models. So I do think based on that aspect as well as what Bengt mentions, I would like to think it's one flip per model.

Comparing it to the Gremlin Slop Hauler, his action says: "Up to four friendly Pigs or Gremlins within 3" may perform a 1/2/3 healing flip" It clearly states each model makes its own flip, and based on that comparison I would interpret Hoffmans heal to be one flip applied to all the models..

the FAQ is pretty clear that it's Zoraidas crew that controlled the action and is credited with the kill. But it doesn't mention what model is credited with the action, and since it isn't mentioned, I think it would be assumed that it isn't changed from standard procedure and that The Judge still is the one who is credited the kill and not Zoraida. This would mean that the crew that killed the model was Zoraidas, but the model that killed it is still The Judge (who is still an enemy model as the alignment doesn't change). I quote the Rules Manual, pg89 This indicates that Frame for Murder only cares about what crew the model belonged to that made the kill, and that is still enemy. So it would work to obey an enemy model to complete Frame for Murder..

No, if you're immune to the damage you're not suffering damage...

First up, I'm totally agreeing with you. But just to say that I do understand where the other interpretation is coming from, it is just this. The rule only says that you need to pass the duel or die. It doesn't mention anything about failing. So if you don't take the duel, you don't succeed. You also don't fail, but that doesn't matter since failing isn't mentioned by the rule, only "not-succeeding" is mentioned. I think it's a silly interpretation, but I can still see where the argument stems from.

The Immunity-box on page 36 of the small rulebook is maybe not 100% clear on this. It states: But I do think that this means that if you are targeted by a rule that makes you do something that you are immune to doing, then that rule doesn't work. It doesn't automatically consider the duel successful or failed. So, in this case, you are forced to take a Wp-test or die, but as you are immune to anything requiring you to take a Wp-test, that rule doesn't work. Same in the example of Lucius and the minions, if he targets a minion a second time it will be immune to taking the horror duel, and so it has no effect. It doesn't cause him to be paralyzed, but it also doesn't allow him to do an action. I also attribute this issue a bit to the wording of abilities. Many of them say "Succeed in a Tn 12 Wp-duel or <stuff happens>" which could ofcourse by the litteral sense mean that if you for some reason do not take Wp-duels, then stuff will happen. You could change the wording to "If a model fails a Tn 12 Wp-duel, <stuff happens>", but then you need two different wordings for what is basically the same thing when you look just passed the letters. Saying that a model immune to the duel therefore is immune to the entire rule, I think is pretty simple to understand and shouldn't be overanalyazed..

I hear this alot and it still surprises me.. I got the metal version, and I never once found it a problem to either assemble or keep stuck together.. And I actually haven't even pinned all of the arms, only the legs and two arms. The only thing that I didn't like was the huge amount of greenstuff required to fill the gaps around the vents and the "groin"-cogs. A friend who bought his painted and assembled had one arm drop off, but I pinned that for him and it's never dropped off since. So whenever I hear that I wonder if it's the glue people uses that suck, or if they handle it too roughly or what the problem might be..

I think you are right, there are no downright terrible models. But the value of a model highly depends on your plastyle and that of your regular opponents. Say for example your opponents tend to take models that ignore armor, well then those models other players consider "very tanky with loads of armor" suddenly aren't so tanky anymore. Or that your opponents likes to play bunched up, then a model that can deal blasts might seem extra valuable. Would be nice to see a thread like this evolve into a "what non-obvious synergies have you found within the guild" or something like that. Discussing how you get extra usefullness out of a model that is perhaps lesser viewed in general. Perhaps by buffing it with something, or to cover a weakness of another model..

The guardian used to be a model that soaked damage. Now the guardian is a model that threatens incoming melee beaters, but does very little against a ranged attacker unless being a LoS-blocker. I used to always take a Guardian (capital G, as in the name of the model) in 1.5 when playing Sonnia, because she was a bit fragile. She is still pretty fragile in herself, so I'm still using a guardian (lower case g, as in the role), that deters enemy models from coming to close, as well as buffing her defense. The only real difference is the name of the model. It used to be named Guardian, now it's named Fransisco :-P as for models I don't use, the governor's proxy is definetly among them. Another is actually the Peacekeeper, which I hear alot of people really like. I find this funny,because very few liked PS in 1.5, but I rated it highly then, with paired, semi-nimble, arachnid and flurry, it was a really dangerous piece. Now I find it slow and uneffective, as it's lost both the nimble, arachnid and paired.. Thirdly, I no longer like Nino. I don't see any place at all for him outside a family-heavy crew, which I don't run. And lastly, Samael. I really really want to like Samael, and he can be incredibly destructive when you manage to let loose a rapid fire. My problem is he's so expensive and rarely get's off more than 1 shot, if even that, per turn. Only once have I ever managed to use rapid fire, after being pushed by an Austringer. My opponents are just too aware of him to make mistakes in placement when I take him. All of my other Guild models do seem play, although I do not own all of them ofcourse.

As the others said, you need to discard down to 6 (or 7 with Arcane Reservoir) at the end of the draw-step. But that is the only time ever, that you there is a max hand size. At any other time, there is no limit. What I like to do is (as I always use the "woke up with a hand"-upgrade") activate Lynch last, and use mulligan to replace my aces with non-aces. That way they are always shuffled back into the deck on the next turn so that my models can draw them again and I can have a bigger hand. Though I may keep ace of masks if I run terror tots in my list and want to make sure they can always sprint.

I think many in this thread (not all, by far, but many) seem to reason in a similar sense to "he works with undead, so should be resser. She uses arcane magic, so should be arcanist" That's not the reason they are divided into the factions as it stands, the reason is fluffy allegiances. Look at McMourning for example. He's fascinated by the act of animating, grafting and such, and therefore wants to learn more about it and is in allegiance with the other resurrectionists trying to master their art and work against those who try to stop their immoral work. But he can also align with The Guild because he is in fact employed by them as their mortician, and the Guild has not made the connection that the reason bodies keep dissapearing is that he is in fact a Resurrectionist. So the reason a master belongs to a faction has nothing to do with what abilities they have, or in what way they work mechanically. It has only to do with how Wyrd has decided the story goes. You could imagine (and now I'm just making stuff up, I don't think it'll ever happen) that Sonnia, who is currently working as a witch hunter in the Guild, was charged with overruse of magic by the Governor General and had a bounty put on her head, making her leave the Guild and seek a new allegiance. I doubt she would be welcomed into the Arcanists, after having hunter their kind for so long. So maybe she would start working for money, becoming a mercanery for hire, likely put in the outcast faction (who I like to think of more of a faction in the sense of "We don't really agree with eachother, but we have common enemies, so are allies of nessessity" ). hmm.. that became a much longer post than I had first intended.. oh well

No, I'm sorry, that wasn't what I meant either. I just meant to say that if you aren't looking to handicap yourself for whatever reason, there is generally no upside to taking a henchman over a master if you are allowed to take one.

I don't think, in game terms, there is any pro to taking a henchman over a master as a leader. Masters are overall so much more powerful than a henchman. The point is more that the game balance is at its best around 50ss, and when you go much lower a master tends to be such a powerful model that the rest of the crew simply doesn't matter. That's why you are enabled to select a henchman under 41ss, and even required to do so under 25ss. So that you and your opponent can elect to both select henchmen as leaders, or that one of you use a master and the other a henchman, as to level an uneven playingfield if one of you are more experienced or something like that. If you are trying to make the most powerful crew you can, a henchman master is (almost) never the choice for leader. There might be exceptions for some henchmen that are very good at a certain task that is needed in a game, some are very good schemers for example. But generally, masters are designed to be more powerful.

I think that the charge would go through, but as Egoon says, the enemy model has not yet moved, so if it can be moved in such a way that it still is within reach of Sidir after the move, then the attacks would go through. But if it can't be moved in such a way, then the attacks are lost.

It sounds to me that you have a correct understanding of how Blasts work. You plase the first marker in base contact with the model suffering damage, and then the next marker in contact with the first and so on. Pyrokenesis enables you to place the first one 2" away, all other rules still apply. However I don't clearly understand what your opponent meant... sure, you can shoot your own models and place blast of them, it's a good tactics against models that are hard to target. But that works just as it does when you're shooting an opponent, except that you control both attack and defense..

Actually, there is one minor error. Misery states that you take the damage after resolving the action. So if I modify your entry slightly like below: Model uses Lure action. -> Duel happens. -> Enemy model loses duel, which is a Wp duel for it. -> Check to see if model is within 6" of model with Misery, if yes, model will take damage at the end -> Resolve Lure effect. -> Now is when you actually take the damage from Misery, if you were within 6" in the previous step.

Actually, there's one more thing to Inferno. The 'Flaming Demise' condition actually states "When this Condition ends<...>", meaning that if you want it to go off at a particular time, you could use a Whichling Stalker to dispel the condition and make it go BOOM! when you want it to.

I would tend to agree with you, but to point out there are times when it's useful. Say you play vs a model that gains a substantial bonus when attacking a model with burning, for example Sonnia. The Sonnia-player puts 1 burning on one of your models, which is in blocked LOS from Sonnia herself. Spending 1AP to remove that burning can then save your model from being reduced to a pile of ashes in Sonnias activation. So I just wanted to point out that although it is not a generally useful way to spend 1AP, there are absolutely situations where it's worthwile. In the above situation, it's to hinder an opponent to take advantage of the condition itself, but it could also be that you want to drop the burning down so that your model doesn't die but lives with 1Wd remaining, so that it can do something really good the next turn. Also, regarding burning being OP. I definetly do not think it is, most of the time if a model hands out burning, it's not doing as much damage as a roughly equivalent model without burning does. There are some models that still does a fair amount of damage and still hand out burning (Witchling Stalkers are a prime example. Sonnia does aswell, but for her to give burning she requires a trigger so I don't really think it applies), but mostly it's a tradeoff. Samael can with an upgrade hand out burning +4 which may sound like alot, but then he's an 11ss henchman, and most models of that cost can hand out similar amounts of damage per Ap. I would say the same applies for Kaeris and her henchman. Dealing out 2-4 burning in one AP isn't anymore powerful than dealing out 2-4 damage, in fact, in most cases I would say it's less powerful because the damage doesn't happen until end of turn.

No, it only works on Df duels.

And you can always put extra efforts in to negate the extra negative twist if you really want to (say you have the red joker in hand for example and really want to cheat damage with it). Everyone is able to spend an action to focus, which gives a positive to both the attack and damage, making it easier to reach a cheatable final result.

I've only played 2 games with Pandora in 2e so far, but there is one thing I've been contemplating for a while that I got to try out in my last game. The sorrows have this nice (2)-action called Doldrums that hands out paralyzed. The problem with it is that Sorrows usually doesn't live very long when the opponent starts closing in. So I've been thinking of a way to get them closer to the enemy without wasting AP (primarily their own, but also don't want to use a model solely for pushing the sorrow). Last game, I tried using Mr. Graves to push the Sorrow forward, as he follows along after the push, it's not really a waste of AP as it saves himself using a Walk action. So by setting up a couple of Mood Swings the turn before, I managed to get two activations before my opponent could really anything about it, and I pushed the sorrow up and managed to paralyze Yan Lo, which felt awesome for an entire 15 seconds or so, until I remembered that Chiaki was standing behind the corner and could just remove the condition But still felt like a confirmation of sorts that the idea works. So this was my long winded way of saying: consider adding Mr. Graves to your list. He doesn't really do much in the Wp-department (he has the no-charge-aura, but that's not much to talk about), but with the pushes he can do both to your crew and the opponent, as well as some decent stayingpower (only Df4, but armor+1 and Hard to Kill together with 9Wds isn't bad when you compare him to what's in Pandoras (start)box) he's a pretty versatile model that can give you alot of help.

I'm going to be using this model as a second Insidious Madness. I don't have a problem with the current one, but I really like this model so I was searching for something to proxy it as Also, I have to point out, I haven't painted mine yet so this one is not mine

so you think a stone for suit and a 1+ of the other suit (so 50% of the entire deck, plus a stone) to be able to dump the entire effect of an attack from your master down to any guardsman/mimic model is bad? There are several cheap guardsman options to dump attacks to.. quite a good defense to a master I would think. Consider something big and nasty, able to do loads of damage in one hit, or with nasty triggers, attacking Lucius and you suspect they've got better cards or starting stats than you. Spending a stone and the lowest card you have of or , to dump that attack on to a 3ss guild hound, is a very powerful defense imo. This gets even better when you consider Devil's Deal. You can put 3 damage on that guild hound when spending the ss, then dropping the card and calling the trigger. Dump the entire attack over to the already damaged hound, and when it's dead (most likely), get your soulstone back.