dancater

Mei is not bad but she is underwhelming. Several key issues: Generally the TT Mei is significantly stronger than the Arcanist, so why play Arcanist Mei if you can at all avoid it. She has construct synergy but taking lots of constructs with her actually hurts her crew flexibility a lot, no other real synergies and she doesn't boost her crew the synergy is movement based mainly for her. Card intensive attacks and also needs cards to stay alive, very hungry of control hand. She has limited hard counter in rezzers (mainly through Kang) but also plays directly into rezzers strength of melee durability herself, she is good vs ranged and does a lot of light damage which rezzers don't so much mind. She is solid vs gunlines but they are not a strong feature of Malifaux and the scheme/strat structure. In about 99% of cases Arcanists have a master and crew which do anything Mei does but significantly better; Marcus can usually bring the fast melee mayhem better than a Mei crew, Ramos runs (and summons) constructs much better than Mei, Kaeris and Colette can each do schemes with some durability better than Mei as well although both have their own notable flaws, even Raspy can run anti-gunline pretty well with Snowstorm and Ice Mirrors. But really Sandeep and Ironsides are her death knell in Arcanists as almost any scheme/strat/opponent combo I can think off to run Mei would be better run with either of these masters. So basically in Arcanist meta taking Mei is handicapping yourself in two ways she is better in TT so if you want Mei take her TT and if you are committed to Arcanists then there is really no combination of circumstances where Mei is more (or even closely as) competitive as the other Arcanist masters. Its not that she is so weak she is an actual disadvantage (like say pre-errata Lucius or pre-book 5 Mah) but she is alongside poor Colette the current weakest master in faction with the added disadvantage that she has a stronger version of herself in TT as well. She could use a slight bump, maybe even a simple bump in crew choice, in order to be really solid against the other faction crews (and honestly Sandeep needs to be slightly reduced so he is not as universally solid as his current build is).

Yes, this is my point. Further I think that Arcanist players are in a unique position (as are other faction regulars) to discuss what is both over and under powered in the faction. We have vested interest in our favorite and best models but equally we also know without the element of frustration/bad game/ambush which opponents experience which models we look at and go 'wow, that is awesome'. So from an internal balance perspective I don't think we can discuss what needs to be buffed without acknowledging what needs to be nerfed. The fact that we have a number of genuinely weak models and only a few particularly strong ones indicates that yes probably some buffs are needed to tighten the internal balance of the faction. Again this is particularly tricky as Arcanists have several distinct threads and excellent diversity. Also think we need to differentiate here between always taken because its massively powerful and always taken because it fills a unique slot. Back in the day the Mech Rider was an 'always take' because it was such a fast useful model (not unique) with powerful summoning (not unique) and durability as the game progressed (not unique), what was unique was the overall power package it was thus OP and got a deserved nerf, no problem. The Nurse may or may not be OP, what it has is a heal/paralyze ability which is unique to it and given the nature of the action it is very flexible. The Nurse does something no other model does in or out of faction and that ability always has some useful application, add in it is cheap and also can do schemes and it is a obvious inclusion in many, many rezzer lists. This is an additional twist in balancing, differentiating between models which are simply OP, models with unique skills which are a little too useful and models with unique and reasonable skills which simply see disproportionate table time because the skills they bring are useful and flexible. So we have one in faction cheap condition removal the Arcane Effigy, it is a great little model and the condition removal is amazingly useful, so it sees a lot of my lists. Not because it is OP but because it is a cheap inclusion with an essential skill and the only way to get that skill without merc tax (Johan/Johanna, who also sees many lists for that same skill anyway).

One of the reasons that the Dec Acolyte is not in every Arcanist list is that the Arcanist masters are very diverse and several simply do not always, or even regularly, take an Acolyte. Also the two models you've identified are both pretty strong but more importantly are infamous because they have powerful and nearly unique abilities which are almost always useful. Not many factions have them in quite such an obvious fashion as those two models. Marcus runs Beast, Ramos Constructs. Mei is often (for me) construct heavy. In Sandeep, Kaeris and Ironsides the Dec Acolyte is a definite strong choice as I run them but not auto, no. But Raspy and Colette it is always in. However, it is more than that and I will reasonably say that while it is not something which brings a particular very powerful near unique skill (Doppleganger & Nurses) which sees it in 90% of lists I will say for 7SS it feels very, very good and not much in that cost range or even a stone (or in notable cases more) above is as solid as the Dec Acolyte. Not saying it needs to be beaten with a nerf bat but a slight tweak would not be unreasonable. I mean I'd rather see Dec Acolyte get -10% and the Gunsmith get +25% in order to equalize these models in value then see the Gunsmith buffed to the current Dec Acolyte and cause a resulting power shift. As for Cojo at 8SS compared to Dec Acolyte at 7SS, well that is just an example of the strong vs the weak. To make Cojo a solid choice (outside of specific Marcus Beast synergy) for Arcanists standing next to the Dec Acolyte and worth a soul stone more would probably make every other faction forum go into some sort of meltdown. Honestly we can all identify models across our faction and the others which we thing are overpowered (yes Nurse and Doppleganger are examples) or badly under-powered (Guild Guard or the Beckoner or Orian all come to mind) but this is about Arcanists and not just about whining about what needs to be better. So if I was saying nudge (slightly) down then Sandeep as a master and Dec Acolyte are two, maybe OxMages triplet as well. Otherwise Arcanists have been nerfed a few times and OP wise fell OK I think (Raptors, Mech Rider, Wind Gamin). Maybe the nerfs have gone a shade to far on certain models (Colette lost her strong somewhat boring play and gained no characterful alternative while being short changed in Book 5 badly and Metal Gamin went from too good to arguably only better than the terrible Poison Gamin because it was made 5SS). And buff wise I've mentioned Cojo, Mouse as priority. Also as noted Kudra (as much for fluff as anything), Poison Gamin, Captain, Ice Golem. Honestly I think a small buff to Gunsmiths alongside a nudge to Dec Acolytes would let these two take up nice solid separate rolls for the 7SS cost, specially if the triplets were less solid as a Gorgon like tri-model beast. Would like to see a slight equalization of the Gamin. Also would like to see Marcus Arcanist Beasts get more love ext to cross-faction equivalents, this I think is a Marcus in Arcanists problem as I can't think of when I took an Arcanist beast outside Blessed and Myranda > Cerberus. Speaking of which the Myranda and Imbued Energies trick needs to be changed, taking Myranda & IE instead of a Blessed or Cerberus is simply a no brainer and it feels kinda wrong, Myranda is OK but with the IE it is to much better than the beasts she shifts into. Kudra is not useless but I feel she is resource intensive to use and other models (notably Kandara, Cassandra and Aminu) provide better value and with less work needed. Also as stated Kudra feels disconnected from her own fluff concept as retnab accurately pointed out.

Agreed here totally, her fluff and play does not match at all AND as a playable model she is very weak. I think she needs a reworking and big change in her core concept at the moment she does not seem to be a student of magic and the esoteric. She'd fit better either as a Marcus ally - a student of herpetology and poisons or as a Showgirl snake charmer/dancer but neither her fluff nor abilities reflect that though her 'style' kind of does. But as Sandeep's best student you have to wonder if she is cheating in classes because her card in no way reflects this. Honestly Kudra is where a 'this is a cool idea and model' was shoe horned into a 'this master needs a henchman' and then the card was made super bland and safe with no thought towards any synergy beyond a upgrade card which can be useful as an after thought. This is made obvious as retnab pointed out the best student is a sort of melee model but weak and minimal synergy where as Kandara has obvious function, is melee in a way which is useful and makes sense and has multiple potential synergies with Sandeep. Kandara feels like the henchman that should be in Sandeep's box set and Kudra feels like that generic henchman that does not quite work well with any crew but is close with several. Add to this that Kandara is the same cost as Kudra and I can simply not see a reason to take Kudra ever, which is a shame because the original cool idea was valid, I really like the concept but the model is just short on all bases. In this she is very much like Mouse (in what way does this model represent a spymaster?) where an excellent idea has simply failed for a number of reasons to be applied to the tabletop and the entire concept is not really reflected in the model play. The other models in my 6 (Cojo, Poison Gamin, Ice Golem and the Captain) are more great concepts which are just a little to weak in play because the designers were over cautious, which honestly I'm OK with I'd rather over cautious then overpowered its easier to nudge models up then have certain models dominate the meta for months and need to be nerfed.

Felt like they did not have much experience and also were pressed for time, think this may have been a podcast better spread over 2 episodes as the Arcanists got only the fastest overview and the Gunsmith never got a mention. There is a fair number of Arcanist mini's worthy of a review, we've been hit by the nerf bat a fair bit recently and are, I think its safe to say, the most nerfed faction with Metal Gamin, Wind Gamin, Arcane Rider (multiple times), Colette all getting attention and not unreasonably, but I think some may have overshot, notably Colette. Equally Ironsides in particular has steadily been buffed. Still the strength of some models in the Arcanist faction really hides a number of flaws. Rasputina and her Frozen Heart have some notably amazing models but even as a summon the Ice Golem is dubious, a poor crew model and fairly weak summon. Ramos is very strong and the Steam Arachnids are still a solid summon, generally the construct side of Arcanists is very strong, but I think happily not overpowered. Marcus has access to so many Beasts it actually really hides the weakness of the Arcanist Beasts in general the Cerberus is solid and Blessed of December is good as well and can see time in non-Marcus crews as well. But I rarely see Mole Men or the Hoarcat Pride with other factions supplying superior selections for Marcus and barely getting a look with other Arcanist masters. As for SM Mauler and Cojo the less said the better, even with the Mauler's buff, and Razorspine, Poison Gamin and Scorpius MIGHT get a look in a Marcus Poison list but no where else and honestly even in the poison list their are better out of faction options. Mei Feng has some OK Foundry models. Her problem is she doesn't really compete as a master in competitive play. Metal Gamin and Rail Golem both could use a little love to bring them in line with alternatives in the faction. Ironsides is now an excellent master with some great options and crew selections. But her totem Mouse is abysmal and the Captain is badly over-costed for the faction. Across the M&SU the Union Miners are still a shade weak and the Gunsmiths are bad especially next to the only worth it for 15SS but then a little OP OxMage triplet selection. Kaeris again is a master who is a little flawed, she does nice things but not quite enough. Not great Burning synergy in the faction really, its there but sub-optimal. Fire Gamin struggle, they are not the weakest models but one issue with the Kaeris crew is is damage output is poor and it does not really scheme or move fast and the Fire Gamin are emblematic of this they are a minion with no real scheme-y boost, average speed and poor damage. Many of Arcanist's burning models (Fire Gamin, Rail Golem, Union Miner, Gunsmith) are a little under-powered. Colette has been hurt by both the recent nerf and her poor Book 5 upgrades compared to many other masters across all the factions. She has tumbled from one of Arcanists strongest masters to one of the weakest. In addition she really lacks anything she 'does' better then anyone else, she is not an obey master, not reliably durable, has poor damage output and her scheme-y tricks are OK but more crew centered than master. In short she really needs a look in and of herself. Crew wise the Showgirls are good but a little heavy on the scheme-y speed, light on durability and poor in damage output. Her theme crew is actually very costly (Performers and Dancers are 6SS and Duet while great is 14SS) and struggles, the Colette crew is usually heavily skewed non-theme and in fact is almost a generic the best Arcanist models crew in order to compensate for her vulnerabilities. Sandeep is the master which probably needs a light nerf, he is simply too strong in too many situations, he's a toolbox filled with premier tools. However his Gamin summoning does highlight the Gamin issue as its clearly Wind (even with nerf) > Ice > Fire or Metal > Poison, this spread is simply to obvious. Kudra was a poor model and the Book 5 releases will seal her doom. So 6 models which I think need real attention: Cojo Poison Gamin Mouse The Captain Ice Golem Kudra Others who could use a glance: Razorspine Rattler Mole Men Hoarcat Pride SM Mauler Gunsmith Fire Gamin Metal Gamin Either Howard needs a slight nerf or the Rail Golem a slight buff, I think the Arcane Rider is in a good place (probably the only (true) Rider not descending fast). I'd like to see Union Miners nudged sideways. Could see nerfs for: Sandeep Triplet OxMages Maybe still the Wind Gamin which still has the best speed, durability and hitting mix of the Gamin December Acolyte, it is simply to good for 7SS much as I hate to say it As always the problem is finding niches for certain models, balancing the all-rounder models to be flexible enough to take but not strong enough to dominate specialists and whether you are better powering up weak models (power creeping upwards) or nerfing models which are to strong. But simply put the spread of models across all levels in Arcanists is pretty obvious, I think we're better off then certain factions in places (Guild and NB for example have huge henchman disparity and Gremlins struggle with the sheer value of Bayou Grems) we have a broad issue across Masters, Henchmen, Enforcers, Minions and Totems where the gap between the great and the poor is very clear and quite wide. I find about 30% of my Arcanist models always get consideration in crew selection and playtime and then 30% feature depending on crew and other game specific factors, after that the last 40% is rarely seen unless I am making 'for fun' lists with some of them (the noted 6 above) really only being taken if I don't mind handicapping myself. Certainly felt Arcanists deserved more time in this episode.

Thank you Jinn, I agree that new models is a band aid solution making the Showgirls crew stronger but failing to fix the basic weakness in Colette herself. Equally I doubt they will have new upgrades. Sadly true and not unreasonable. Having said that I am hoping (a) and unlikely, that they may do a comprehensive errata, and (b) failing that at least the folks at Wyrd can read this thread (and I am certain they do) and take some ideas for Colette going forward, there are a lot of smart players providing some good ideas. Its a bugger of a trial to balance a game with so very many moving parts this I know, I appreciate Wyrds efforts and I'm just sad that at the moment Colette is on the ebb but she'll be back, sure and certain and I'll wait for the show.

So.... Love the idea and looks sweet. Will pretty much be certain to buy this damn it all. But.... Preassembled - so it will be a resin mix like tortoise and hare or Alonius and not plastic, makes me a little sad as its harder to model/paint/glue (to base). Or will it still be plastic which will be very transport by post fragile. Guessing not this will be first real look of compound I'm guessing will be Other Side mini base line. No Ice Golem alt (maybe this will be a general release model sometime soon?) which struck me as needed now Raspy can summon the giant Ice Slabs. I mean its unlikely that you'll regularly get 2 Ice Golems often but it is certainly vastly more likely than it was. I am thinking that perhaps we'll see a general release Golem (at least I hope so) so folks are not forced to purchase NE to get a second I guess, which is fair - hopefully it happens soon (say maybe during Black Friday ).

I'd like to see Colette get A Showgirl Enforcer that was dangerous - knife thrower, acrobat -martial artist for example More emphasis on illusion and trickery, so abilities to perhaps make enemy models attack each other (similar to an obey) and/or an ability to add a in-game upgrade which copies a minion where one is real and the other false and/or an ability which allows her to create illusionary barriers. I'd prefer this to simply returning the prompt machine. Perhaps an ability to score multiple schemes (so 3 or even 4) and then elect which ones to score at a point in the game perhaps (a twist in the show concept) Simply put she and her crew need to first emphasize the show, illusion, trickery aspect more AND more crew flexibility with some sort of solid Showgirl minions/enforcers which can supply missing elements (such as the way Ice Dancers bring speed and schemes to Raspy - but not really to Colette who has that in already). She needs more powers on her card which reflect this. So I simply loved the Lucius errata which made him more powerful AND more in character at the same time. Deeply regret that Book 5 really provided the Star entourage with nothing at all, that was a great opportunity missed. But perhaps for the better because maybe Colette needs a more foundational rethink.

Yeah Its an interesting thing, I liked the Colette nerf because I hated the prompt-prompt-prompt play-style. However the problem quickly became that Colette does not really have much else to do with her AP that approaches 'Master' level. I don't want Colette to be a simple prompt machine but otherwise she struggles, she is durable in circumstances but by no means a tank, definitely not a beater and its her crew which schemes not her. So she took a solid hit from the nerf, but she was strong so it made her more mid-pack. However the recent Book 5 updates have really smashed her, suddenly a great many weak-middling crews and masters have been buffed and Colette got basically not much if anything power wise and really not a whole lot style wise. The result is she has plummeted in terms of her position power wise and is increasingly frustrating to play even casually. Undoubtedly her crew is strong, Performers are good, Cassandra solid and generally the theme models are all good but Colette herself is now pretty useless. She has some survivability, does the single prompt/model thing and can provide a few tricks to her crew plus a soul stone and (+) twist battery on occasion but by herself she is useless and her crew buffing generally pails next to what similar masters can do. Since Book 5 many masters feel functional and characterful, sure some are more power than theme but their is a lot of either or both. Poor Colette is kinda really drifting into the space where she is neither.

These are wonderful cards, really visually striking. For folks interested in a sleeving them... The Swan Panasia 77/128mm sleeves were a great fit and seemed good overall value, not simple to get where I lived but ordered direct from manufacturer. https://www.swanpanasiasleeves.com/collections/premium-sleeves/size_77x128mm Here is an image of the result:

Still hoping my alt-Sybelle wanders to far off Sydney sometime this month, figure it should get here eventually.

Question is heavily dependent on master and, especially with increasing book 5 upgrade diversity their build. Now Marcus is a corner case as he can take any factions beasts and this provides a bunch of superb options but I'll stick here to Arcanist beasts only Nothing is 'must' take but a range of things are very common and 'always' considered Arcane Effigy is simply superb December Acolyte is excellent value Master specific totems obviously Banasuva and also Wendigo, Jackalope, Brass Arachnid, Mech Doves Very, very good Joss Angelica Mech Rider Johan (really invaluable in some crews) Howard Langston Malifaux Raptor Amina Naidu Performer More niche, but common Sabertooth Cerberus Carlos Coryphee (pair) Ice Dancer Silent One Blessed of December Myranda Cassandra Oxfordian Mages Wind Gamin More heavily build dependent, unlikely Poison, Metal, Fire Gamin Rail Worker Arcane Emissary The Captain Simply never unless I'm playing purely fun/theme Mouse Ice Golem (as a non-summon) Cojo Everything in the Arcanist faction not mentioned above gets into lists regularly, sometimes they are features common to certain masters and other times they are rarer but have multiple master utility but generally speaking they fall between my brackets above as the *but common and *unlikely, so somewhere in that space. So if I was travelling to play and wanted to pack Arcanists (only, expect Johan who is a honorary member) I'd make sure all the first three brackets of models were packed, I'd select the other faction models as I thought I'd need them and honestly doubt I'd pack the unlikely models unless I had a certain crew build in mind while the 'nevers' would really only take up space unless I'd planned a specific simply for fun narrative type clash.

For me Essential Ice Dancer because you really need some speed with Raspy, with the wave 5 upgrades other options have been opened but she still needs a fast scheme runner and with the FH synergy the Dancer is crucial. Desirable Blessed of December is a great FH beater with a useful combination of speed, durability and death dealing. Not going to overwhelm in any one area but will never not be able to do something. December Acolyte because its simply such a good model for its points and has great cross over for any role. Snowstorm I understand some of the negatives but this is still a really useful model that is a vector changer in a Raspy crew, it really adds a range of options and if you are careful with it you can keep it alive for the critical turn and after that let an opponent burn valuable resources killing a model to dangerous to ignore. Silent One this models location on the list depends a great deal on the Raspy build and style of play you use, in some crews they border on essential in others it is simply a useful model but with certain redundancy, but for the healing alone it has a place. Arcane Emissary is again a model which has utility which is magnified or reduced depending on build, as an Ice Mirror that cannot easily be neutralized, is mobile and durable it is superb in certain builds otherwise it is an average beater. I think Blessed is a more reliable beater and Snowstorm provides more flexibility and variety. Having said that the Emissary is amazing in the right crew and outshines both easily and its not a niche build for Raspy, this models place really depends on you preferred play style. Arcane Effigy is the first non-FH model I look to, its cheap, can scheme, is durable for its cost and brings condition removal, honestly can't think of any game with any Arcanist master that this little construct does not receive consideration (even Marcus where I almost always go heavy beast theme). Mech Rider another non-FH piece is very expensive and a bit of a niche take but I still think the best original Rider (barring recent TT cheese) is damn useful, fast and despite some errata's has great potential in any Arcanist crew and IMO has extra potential with Raspy's book 5 upgrades particularly interested in this with a heavy Raspy summon list as the Mech Rider can summon Ice Gamin as well. Malifaux Raptor is not as overpowering in schemes as it used to be (which is fine because the practiced production trick was broken) so now it is simply a super inexpensive activation which can get anywhere on the board quickly and is very irritating when it arrives causing enough problems to need to be removed and with a high enough Df that it is surprisingly difficult to actually kill. So yeah what's not to like. That would largely be it. Very heavy FH inclusion but then her models are really superb AND give her super synergy which can magnify in certain builds and is never not useful. I will note that it would be worth considering getting extra Ice Gamin and maybe even a second Ice Golem given the possibility of a Raspy summon list, I suspect it is the rare game where you'll have 4+ Ice Gamin or 2+ Ice Golems on the field but it is not inconceivable and so I'm thinking it may be useful to have the models available if the summons list is something you plan. Options seem to be 2nd Raspy box, LE transparent blue Raspy box, old metal Raspy box or mini's, secondary market mini's. Hopefully Wyrd release a small box of Gamin and a separate Golem box, I'd love an alt-Golem.

Seems pretty much certain that the Arcanist faction will fragment, at least pulling in different and mutually exclusive directions if not coming into direct collision and conflict. So based on book 5 fluff and Homefront info: Ramos is betrayed and imprisoned, sent back to Earth where it appears an Arcane/Mage faction is planning a jailbreak and recruitment. Rasputina is an unknown, but she had been increasingly chaotically enmeshed with December and both unpredictable and independent. Marcus is feeling nationalistic and committing to the Order of Chimera and his allies in the Middle East, appears he plans to at least partially take over and separate part of the Ramos build Arcanist smuggling operation. At least has no apparent interest in allying with The Council and may even clash with them. Kaeris will likely side with Ramos trying/helping to break him out and allying with those who can help her to rescue him, so potential alliance with The Council seems likely. Ironsides was enmeshed in the betrayal of Ramos and her likely final agenda is unknown, she could end up allying with the Guild, perhaps approach Marcus, maybe seek to breakout Ramos pursuing redemption or splinter off M&SU and those Unionists willing to follow her from the Arcanist umbrella. All the scenarios are possible but I think that seeking Ramos and his forgiveness and returning to the status quo is unlikely. Colette is an unknown she dislike Ramos but equally had no time for many of the other players in Malifaux, her primary goal seems, and remains I think, the independence of her Theater troupe with an additional emphasis on safety and security for young women and keeping her (and her protege's) mystical powers as hidden as possible. Honestly could fall with The Council, seems the most obvious but there is the Ramos enmity but Order of Chimera is also a possibility, if Marcus wants a piece of the smuggling network then Colette would be an obvious recruit. But then depending on how Wyrd deals with real-world vs Malifaux universe culture I can't see Colette and the Star troupe being widely accepted in a early 20th century Middle East... Mei Feng is a wild card with her TT allegiance, she has potential sympathies with Ramos and Ironsides and perhaps the TT would be able to work with Marcus and the Oder of Chimera. Of course this all depends on also whether Mei continues to follow the TT agenda or in some way spilits off and even then how she interprets her own and her allies best interests. Sandeep would seem to be likely firmly allied with Ramos and The Council but having said that he may feel a instinctive kinship with Marcus and the Order of Chimera and certainly (again depending on Wyrd quasi-history) the Indian sub-continent is no friend of the Europeans and is geographically near Egypt (historically the India-Pakistan division is decades removed from 1907-10 which is the Wyrd historical time now. I can see three clear major players in our faction (Ramos, Marcus and Ironsides) with two total wildcards (Rasputina and Colette), one whose agenda is tied to other outside forces (Mei) and two who are likely to side with Ramos (Sandeep and Kaeris) at least on first blush but who could surprise. So its likely that the artificial divisions in the Arcanist faction will become real rifts, or at least it seems that way. How this plays out on the gaming tables is really the key and completely open to speculation.

So I generally agree with your assessment. But regards changing them the problems are manifold. I mean look at Yasunori for an example of an over-powered rider, seems in TT its a near auto-take, if you need its phenomenal blend of power and speed (which mostly you do), regardless of master. Fore most is the schtick of the riders is the progressive creep, its interesting and unique but it must be carefully balanced make the riders to durable early they become indestructible later and are likely to get to later because you can hide them turn 1 and probably survive 2-3 before the huge pay off. The same goes for their damage and other actions if the build-up process makes its full potential you'll probably have a game breaking model turn 5. Additionally there is the Levi factor, all the riders are available to him and if each is very good the combination (or one+ taken to fulfill a specific need) is potentially a problem. Obvious three routes to address the problem - Make expensive riders cheaper, this could be bad (especially in combo Levi lists) but seems an obvious safe play test type change as we already have a good idea of each models power. Increase the poorer riders durability and/or damage, or give them other tricks to up their power, this does risk a dreadful power creep and potential game breaking consequences. Change the riders to fulfill the Mech Riders unique slot position - this is harder and would require huge errata's with massive risks of combo power breakage. But equally I like this idea the best because it feels right, but what does each Rider do...??? (obviously Mech seems pretty solid) I'd like to see the Pale Rider have powers which 'prevent' other factions - so maybe a tactical action (0) which creates an aura which has a trigger on each suit a kinda catch all for TT and Gremlins, maybe something which gives flips to models, anti-undead so perhaps destroys corpse markers and prevents them spawning in the aura, anti-magic so maybe something which removes suits or reduces Ca flips (or both) and anti-neverborn so maybe something which prevents Horror duels. This is not fully thoguht out but I think you see where I'm going. The Dead Rider should be something about corpse manipulation and movement so say something which causes corpse markers to always drop from any model (even constructs - spirits in tortured steel...) and maybe an aura which prevents corpse markers from vanishing to enemy actions. Also perhaps a means of drawing corpse markers towards itself (head towards the scythe..). The Hooded Rider should be about horror and death. Really here I like the idea of keeping them as is but making it 1/2 current wounds, incorporeal and giving it something like magic-resistance (so basically bullet-proof for Ca actions), needs to be thought out but I think this could give the Hooded Rider a horrifying durability and reach for a beater in a different way to its competition in Nekima and the Mature. Maybe a screams from beyond ability that prevents Horror immunity for enemies in the aura and/or makes horror duels worse (discard two cards to cheat or +1 difficulty to all Horror duels). That is basically my idea. Instead of doubling down on the riders to compete 'better' in already increasingly model bloated slots change them up, make them unique and characterful for the faction. It will be amazingly hard to balance and errata but that is still I think the best idea.

Which kinda makes sense as if an enemy model pushes you why would your flight assist them, and it also means you could get 'surprise' pushed off a tall structure which fits. But sucks for the upgrade.

Always good quality. One missed point was Colette's unresistable 1AP quasi-obey must target a enemy MINION model, which really is a strong limitation as the pool reduces for powerful models it can grab. So yes its unresistable but it must be a unactivated minion within 3" of a friendly scheme marker and within 8" of Colette and she requires (or can stone for) 7 to cast and then can spend 1AP on the models activation. Limited utility. That was the only real gripe I had.

I want to add one more criteria Thematic to both the 'feel' of the master and the 'theme content' models of there crew. So that the upgrade feels like something the master would do and boosts the value, and thus motivation to take, of their theme crew models. Book 5 Arcanist generally did a credible job of trying to achieve this. This Colette upgrade is an example of where that singularly failed for these actual reasons. It does seem kinda bolted on, tacked in as a we need two upgrades, Colette controls so how about this coupled with a but it needs to be Showgirl so we'll niche one half into game functional obscurity (Showgirl minions only) and she is a stage manager not an obey master so lets confine the second part to only minions, again marginalizing its playablity to near ineffectiveness. So they seemed to have reached for an upgrade and then tacked on 'thematic' constraints and basically created an over costed lemon which when compared to the 'Arcanist standard' 2SS master upgrade of Arcane Reservoir is laughable, why would you ever take this over that or nothing. I newly christen this upgrade as "Bring on the Clowns" that stays in theme and also represents this upgrades in-game value to Colette.

Basically a highly situational upgrade which might, might... have powerful play if the stars align and the moon is in eclipse with the planet of Mercury, providing its the 3rd Thursday of June. So yeah, not much play. I've already pointed out the poor Colette has copped a bit of a hammering over the past year, the book 5 upgrades were generally great for Arcanists, so Colette's weak showing is very obvious.

At least in the first turn you'll out activate your opponent, after that...... Well should be interesting at least.

True, Arcane Reservoir at 2SSalong with many excellent master upgrades filling all three slots means usually my master is a 3-5SS selection and I'm adding another 2-3SS in other upgrades on henchmen and enforcers. Then add the likely 10+ SS model to present a big threat. But the real Arcanist crunch is in the 7-9SS range (before upgrades) there is a lot of superb minions, enforcers and henchmen in this range I can think of six I want to take 9/10 and if I do add upgrades then suddenly my 8 or 9 stone mid-range has become a 10+ elite. Even in the awkward 6SS range we have some options now with the Steamfitter, Willie, Angelica, Silent One, Soulstone Miner, Large Arachnid and Ice Dancer all great potential takes depending on scheme/strat/crew/opposition and Scorpius has had a potential book 5 resurgence. The interesting thing is most of these models are more supportive then outright deadly, a lot of the real big damage dealers in Arcanist's are in the 10+ stone range with our mid-range often being less about damage output than utility. Not sure if this is as heavily the case for other factions. Honestly its a problem of excellent choices which is not a bad thing at all, in a different thread I was discussing the "poor" Arcanist models, concentrating on our sadly sub-par Ice Golem, and honestly there is not many Arcanist models that don't have a time and place in our lists without forcing the build around them. Activation control is actually I think one of the weaknesses of the faction, we have lots of reasons to have less then our opposition and limited options to work around this beyond killing them as fast as we can.

Note in reference to my post, I think???? retnab means "Never less than 6, usually 7......" But I'll let them confirm. But if that is the case then retneb runs one less then my usual goal of 8 which given the excellent quality in several higher cost Arcanist models is simply the devil's deal we need to decide on.

Crew size is actually a discussion about activation control I think. Ultimately if it was bot for 'activation control as a thing' then elite expensive crews vs moderate size balance crews vs cheap model spam is actually a debate on soul stone cost effectiveness and that is a different discussion. So the question is really what is an acceptable Arcanist crew size to compete in activation control against other factions, do we have other means of activation control and if we abandon or play for activation control what are the +/- in list selection. So I think its safe to say there is five forms of activation control: List build model count List build special rules/upgrades In game summoning for your crew In game destruction or neutralization of opponents crew In game multi-activation rounds So Arcanists List model count - it appears that the general cross-faction thought is <7 models is small and elite and >9 models is numerous, so 7-9 is about the 'standard crew size'. Arcanists have a bunch of superb expensive models and several really useful high-cost mercenaries which eat crew stones fast so its is fairly easy to field 5 or 6 models or sit on the lower normal (7) side. However we also have a number of useful cheap models notably the Raptors at 3SS and a bunch of 4SS gamin and beasts and such which mean we can if we desire fill out a few extra spots. Generally I aim for 8 activation's and am good anywhere in the 7-9 range. Against other factions we have some advantages, TT and Guild (so 6-7 models is not a surprise) can all be notably elite and expensive while others notably Gremlins are frequently numerous (I expect 9-11 gremlins or pigs even after the bacon bomb nerf). Generally I go for one big 10SS+ model then 2-3 moderate 7-9SS pieces and the rest in the low 4-6SS with a totem and maybe Raptor in the 3SS range and as I said aim for 8 models, makes for hard choices but that's the game. List special rules - here we are pretty limited, we have some options to do with first activation flip so limited control in an upgrade on whether we win initiative but I can't think of much else. Notably NB has good initiative control options and Gremlins have some as well. Guild has a plethora of direct activation control special rules/upgrades. I'll let other more knowledgeable folks discuss other factions here. Basically if we are not winning activation control in list building model count then special rules will not be coming to our rescue. In game summons - as with every faction and crew this depends on you master and other model selection but generally Arcanist's have some great master based summoning and bugger all else. Ramos is amazing for spam summons, sure they are just one type of model but it is 1AP for potentially multiple summons, they are great models with armor and there are ways to heal them up; Sandeep is a summoner, but its a slow process, solid options but you can't endlessly summon; now Raspy has a summon, remains to be seen how powerful but definitely an option. Non-master we got one summon I can think of the Mech Rider, its a solid summon but it is on an expensive (12SS) model that can't use soul stones so the summoning only becomes effective after turn 1 and non suit dependent after turn 2, also a (0) action so once/activation. Generally every faction has at least some summoning; Guild has summons in a Master and in a Henchman they are indirect (off enemy models/deaths), Rezzers are basically a summoning heavy faction, numerous masters, henchman and some other models that is the Rezzer schtick you have to break it fast or endure it, NB has a couple of master summons and some on other models, its an option but mostly master dependent, still those masters which do it can do it well. Then we have Gremlins notably Somner very powerful and Ulix less so but still solid; TT has a lethal summoner in Asami and Yan Lo can run solid summoning and Outcasts has the rat engine and several models which can provide a form of die and rez summoning (Ashes and Dust notably). Id say summons wise it falls Rezzers > everyone with OK summons options in NB, TT and Arcanists and I think Guild has no strong summoning play; Gremlins and Outcasts are special cases as the Somner and Hamelin engines are specific to single masters in the wider faction but they are probably the two most overpowering summons/crew size activation control engines in the game, Rezzers do it more but no one does the summon for activation control as well as these two. In game killing I'm going to leave open, every faction can do it well and equally can have poor crew selection for it. This depends on crew and the scheme/strat mix; hell you can wipe a summoning crew and lose on schemes or be tabled mid-game by a horde crew and still have built enough points to win - just like any Malifaux game. This is the counter activation control where you use special rules (Kin and such) to activate multiple models in a 'single' activation slot. Means you get more bang for the isolated activation but you'll run out of activation sooner. Arcanists have some options here but honestly I've never seen it as a Arcanist thing; Gremlins and Guild both can do this a lot. Its an aspect of activation control but entirely voluntary and heavily dependent on the individual player and game circumstance. Basically Arcanist generally fall in the middle road with activation control, we can play for it and have some options but most factions have at least a niche stronger option if they want activation control and the Arcanist player must disrupt it by either killing lots of spam activation and/or summons usually. Hopefully GG2018 will moderate the power of activation control, I personally feel the current meta places too much importance on it.

Generally agree with the Ice Golem thoughts, even as a summon its more for fun and theme then as a winning play, I mean it could but... It's simply slow with a near auto hit Df, armor is relatively easy to bypass and against Arcanists many stack some anti-armor already compounding the problem. Sure it has a crushing attack which is amazingly difficult to get against a worthwhile target and Toss which has limited utility (even in new Sandeep lists IMO) but that is not near enough. Basically significant array of Arcanist models do the Golem better for either less points, the same + extra or more and they bring a lot more with them as a result. I think its the worst model in Arcanists simply because it can be taken by any master and is not , it is universally sub-sub-par. Mouse ranks second for general uselessness, overly expensive and brings nothing to Ironsides terrible model but its narrow availability means the Golem edges it out. Essence of Power is actually not horrible but faces the problem that multiple masters have great totems (notably Raspy, Sandeep, Ramos, Colette, Marcus) and the masters with OK totems (Kaeris and Mei) don't get anything more from EoP and finally poor Toni has the above mentioned awful Mouse and for her EoP is not much better. Basically the masters where EoP would be good have better totmes and those that could use a solid totem don't want the poor EoP. Cojo has to rate as a bad model, he simply does not get a solid look in even the Marcus lists because so many other models do better and more for similar points. The Slate Ridge Mauler is the last model I struggle to find a place for, its OK and maybe even average with the dancing bear buff but he's strictly a Marcus take in Arcanists and the Beastlord has so many Beast options across the factions I find simply why??..... Gunsmiths are OK, niche and need support but they can do the job. Really suffer being a 7-cost model that should be 6.5 and in the same faction as the Dec Acolyte which is a 7-cost model that probably should be 7.5. Baring book 5 which I have not thoroughly explored most of the other Arcanist models have some place and book 5 seems solid and actually saves at least one other previous drudge model. The Poison Gamin was more or less non-competitive but the sudden potential niche take Marcus poison list has given it new life. Somewhat true also of the Scorpius which was not much to mention as it was fragile and needed specific support to work, but now poison can be an Arcanist thing. Kudra also has an interesting place with book 5 releases, she is not a great henchman and now has furhter Sandeep specific competition but with the possibility of poison having a list design she may find a role because she is cheap and can get a look based on that. A couple of models are OK but find themselves rarely featuring in my lists because other models do better at specific tasks for the same cost. The Captain is a good model but I find he's low on my henchman list, simply to expensive for what he brings. Fire Gamin are borderline, burning is not as big a danger as I'd like and the Fire Gamin is often edged out by the Ice, Metal or Wind depending what I want to do, also Rail Workers and Spiders feature here, but it does bring ranged its just the damage is so poor, average.

Yep true that. I want to really emphasize that the book 5 upgrades and contents really seems to aim for (and largely succeeds for Arcanists I think) giving the masters more value from staying strongly in theme, I really like having a positive motivation for staying basically in theme and that is a great meta-direction for my gaming satisfaction. I own the models and forgot them, stupid. Basically reinforces that Ironsides post-book 5 is on the upswing, which is good, always liked her. Still sad about Colette, really think she needs something. Losing tri-Prompt was fine, hated that play even though it was really strong but between the book 4 & 5 changes she has literally been tri-nerfed and despite Carlos (who is amazing) has in the space of 12 months gone from arguably the top Arcanist to possibly the bottom. Overall looking at my 8 I think 1 & 2 are really close, both super flexible tool boxes, and then there is a short gap to the almost joint 3/4 slot wheere they are superb but have some tough combo match ups. The gap to 5 is not huge and then 6, both these masters have a good range but can suffer hard counters and poor scheme-strat pools, flexible but they have a definite power curve with some game combos really good and others really bad. Then I think there is a definite space between those to 7 and 8 where the scheme-strat-match up pool becomes critical because Mei shines against certain combos but is at best pedestrian against many others and Colette is a solid master with now numerous real hard counters which she simply has no good answer for at all.