Math Mathonwy

Good stuff, Vorschlag! Just a note here: it's "Ml" not "Mi" - lowercase 'l' as in 'Melee' If I have Crows in hand, I like to Focus and change a Gremlin to have three or even four Skeeters. It can be a bit card intensive but due to Somer's card draw it works most of the time. And due to his Summoning there's usually models you can do this to (going Drunk & Reckless near Lenny lowers Gremlins from two Wd to one).

That would be a really big change and it would make some Peons who can fight even semi-well quite scary.

You seem to have switched from what you were originally replying to to some other conversation. Yes, KJ is quite killable (well, he is if there is anything left after he has gone and Vikkies or Levi have gone to town as well). But that doesn't have much to do with what I was replying to. Forcing someone to skip Scheme Marker Schemes after they have possibly built their force to make those Scheme Marker Schemes easy is absolutely huge. Crazy huge. If you cannot appreciate that, I'm not sure what to say. Because really, GG2016 Scheme Marker Schemes aren't difficult at all for some crews but when facing Rat Kings they suddenly are difficult again. Also, Take Prisoner is a gigantic gamble as a savvy opponent can deny is pretty trivially if they realize what you're doing. The person I was replying to did say that and then you took exception to my reply to them. Though this was apparently a bit beside the point: Stuffed Piglets. And they certainly blow the Rats out of the water by a giant margin. But that's neither here nor there, really. There's two kinds. The one you describe is the traditional version. Then there is the Killjoy delivery system which also incorporates Nix to give the Rat who gets Reactivate from Rat Catcher Fast in order for it to be sacrificed to deliver Killjoy. In Icemyn's report this engine was Nix, Obedient Wretch and four Rats. And I do agree, the two do get mixed up in this conversation.

He is but I feel he overlaps with Raphael and Francois. He is extremely good but if going with a tight budget, he wouldn't be my first choice for expanding the Ophelia box. For expanding most other boxes he would be pretty damn high on the list (well, not for Ulix, naturally).

How does he "go after the killjoy hard" if he can't activate anyone? Or was that 'and' supposed to be an 'or'? Huh? In GG2016 the Scheme Markers need to be put on the table before the final round unlike in the original Schemes. I don't understand what you mean by 'lightness' here but Rat Kings, having played against them under GG2016, are much more annoying. Especially when the opponent has activation control and can activate the Rat King after you have put the Scheme Markers down. "Average" I can agree with, but the original claim that I took exception to was that you only get the cruise missile Killjoy (and the rest are dead weight contributing nothing of worth whatsoever).

Twisted Mind is Wp 12 duel or get Paralyzed. When your Wp is 2, that becomes a lot more annoying (let alone when you have Swill). And it's an Aura and you can shoot it into an engagement so perfect for the Brewmaster bubble. Oh, and overlapping Auras stack so if you put it on two guys next to one another, it's very annoying. His damage output does go up when the enemy's Wp is 2. He works nicely with Seamus and Pandora. But I do agree that he seems a bit expensive and I haven't tried him with Brewie. They are decent. Their defensive Trigger is pretty ace (it works on friendly fire as well) and they can do a surprising amount of damage and their stats are pretty good. They are IMO good against Ressers since the abundant HtW really benefits them and there even might be Poison to Push towards. I don't like Poisoning Moon Shinobi on purpose (they have too low Wp for that) but Ressers sometimes do that so there's some benefit there as well. They are also Yin's worst nightmare I've used a Zoraida list with two Nurses and three Moon Shinobi with the Nurses giving them positive twists to everything and +2 Armor. It's very funny though not tournament-worthy. In that list I do Poison a Moon Shinobi to get them all moving.

Ophelia's box is very self-contained. Just add Slop Haulers and then Merris or Sammy or Bayou Gremlins and you have a good core that you can play for a long time and do well with suitable for any Strat or Scheme, basically. Lenny is also fantastic with her but nowhere near mandatory. I have played Ophelia quite a lot without Lenny - he tends to get you to cluster up and that isn't always the best option - with your ample ranged power you can happily spread out and still have models supporting one another. Just take a big Pool and don't be afraid to Stone for Rams when needed.

Rooster Riders (always with the Roosters!) could be sorta nice in that they aren't very expensive but are really fast and hit really hard so four AP on one could be funny. But mostly I agree wiht Blacks85 - though Gremlins kinda seem like prime candidates since we have many models that hit hard while being sorta inexpensive and getting even more AP can make for ridiculous threat ranges, ultimately I feel that Aionus is too expensive and has none of the Gremlin synergy. But feel free to try him and report back.

Sammy's Jynx with Twisted Mind is pretty good. Also, though not a Wp Attack per se, The Sow can get an extra Attack through Smell Fear. Bishop (and Moon Shinobis of course) can also attack against Wp.

We actually do have some early feelers into that direction as well. I'm confident that we'll get a full team. Oh aye! Meeting people will be the best part! Really looking forward to it!

Ah, that's a good collection but a bit limited in some sense - I now understand the lists a lot better! And I'm not saying that Brewmaster is useless - he just doesn't seem to agree with my playstyle. Swilling stuff up and then killing with Roosters or Francois (Companion rocks here!) seems like a more promising approach than the lockdown. You could build an elite Somer crew as well - he goes really well with Rooster Riders (Encouragement rocks!) and can ride around on Gracie showing off his hat and shooting his gun.

No Francois or Burt in any of the lists? I have been plaiying Brewmaster a lot lately and find him by far the weakest of the Gremlin Masters. He locks down models while other Masters kill models. With lockdown you need to do it again every turn while the killer Master can move on to the next target. Brewmaster used as a debuffer that lets your other models kill the enemy works better than the lockdown but still isn't all that stellar. IMO, that is. As for the the other lists, I think they look fine. I love Sammy with Somer and I'd be tempted to exchange the Sow for Francois with Stilts or Burt with Dirty Cheater but I belive that the Sow will work as well.

Master Baiters from Finland are a go! Well, currently it's three people holding five tickets but we'll come up with something. Maybe Myyrä can play three games simultaneously...

It's easy to miss since Papa isn't very visible during the game But man your family is good in Malifaux!

I'll just use this one to launch into something here: Loudest Squeel is one of the most powerful defensive Triggers in the game. You can get Fingers out of engagement by just targeting him with something and defending with a Mask. It can also be used to traverse Severe terrain since it's a Push. Be wary of getting cornered, though. A canny opponent can box you in if you get close to terrain that you can't Push through. Often it only takes one extra enemy model if there is terrain around. Which, incidentally, is also why Hide in the Mud can work nicely for him as then you can hang out in the open a bit better. But the problem of course is that Focus takes away the bonus plus it tends to do more damage so Fingers really doesn't like it. So Hide isn't a panache but can be worth considering depending on terrain and opposing Faction (less useful against Ressers and Neverborn, in general).

Was it the same person using the same list (Sonnia with Papa-in-the-box)? (I really wish that the big tournaments included some kind of a results service for the community to be able to see the results. The big 40k tournaments are like sports events in that people are following them with keen interest but there doesn't seem to exist a similar culture in Malifaux. Which is why @Icemyn's reports are so brilliant)

Huh? Really? There's Summer and Winter Courts in White Wolf's Changeling: the Dreaming, which predates Dresden Files by a good five years or so. And I would be really surprised if that was the primary source for the Summer/Winter divide. But of course the summer/winter divide isn't all that hard to come up with from the light/dark divide used in the Scandinavian myth and kinda mirroring the seelie/unseelie divide.

In general I'd say that all the starter box models (except Blood Wretches if you can give them Fast and possibly Grimwell if you can give him Focus easily) are at the lower end of the power curve in this game. None are horrible enough to make you lose a game or anything but all are about 1SS too expensive.

"Flip a card (literally flip it in the air!) and Zipp moves 10" in the direction of the card. If the card doesn't land on the table, Zipp takes two damage which cannot be prevented and you are allowed to remove one model from the table to your left (if that model is a 40k Knight, you get a VP)." Little known fact: the Gremlin rulesmaking is powered by copious amounts of moonshine.

That's a pretty cool way of looking at it!

You aren't very likely to summon more in a game unless you take Lenny's Upgrade so in that sense it is sufficient. Piglets are pretty good, though, so you might want a few more somewhere down the line. And Stuffed Piglets are worth the 2SS cost so you might want more of them as well some day.

I'm pretty sure it was in Storm of Shadows (the fourth and last book of M1e).

We're trying to get a Finnish team going - we have three people currently that are ready to go and are trying to get two more.

That's completely untrue. You get way more than "a single cruise missile". Both, Rat Catchers and Rat Kings, though arguably not the greatest pieces for their price range, are surprisingly nasty when it comes to Schemes. And Nix is horribly annoying. And Wretch is one of the most underpriced models in the game.