Nicodem-Strategy and Tactics

[ddot]

The extra errata changes Exhume to be cheatable.

Also.. Mindless Zombies are friendly while you control them, so they get bonus Cb, but not bonus Df (which is the important thing here).. This last bit is argueable, but this is my interpretation of it.

Actually, I believe your interpretation is spot on. Mindless Zombies are only controlled by Nic (and thus only Friendly to Nic) during the end of the Activation pahse (eg, after all other models have activated), so during the pre-MZ portion of the AP,hase, they do not benefit from Bolster Undead, but during the MZ portion of the APhase, they are.

[shekbo]

I wouldn't kill any of the dogs. Seems like wasted effort to me, when you can still fodder dogs if nico is hit, and they're going to die in droves anyway! If I start with a low crow I always go with Mortimer's exhume and cheat the flip for my first corpse. That leaves Nicodem in so much of a better position, and the dogs are better suited as suicide troops anyway.

[total.boredom]

Has anyone tried the Dead Rider with Nico?

I haven't tried it yet (actually... I haven't tried much... since I just got my first game in last week...)

But it seems like he could give some much needed mobility (plus, dragging people around sounds like fun!)

[Mach_5]

I've got a proxy I plan to use on occasion, but the steep ss cost means he's not an auto-include for me. Like you said, in some strategies that require a fast moving element to the crew he looks great. Would likely try to keep him in range of Nicodem's bolster, then strike out and drag opponents back for the punks to flurry on...

[Iamwyrd]

Has anyone tried the Dead Rider with Nico?

I haven't tried it yet (actually... I haven't tried much... since I just got my first game in last week...)

But it seems like he could give some much needed mobility (plus, dragging people around sounds like fun!)

I've tried him today. He seems decent with nicodem, the only problem is he is really fast so its hard to keep him close to nicodem for the bolster or the decay healing. But he still seemed pretty good. The 10ss cost is kinda high, but he is good. I may try to play more reserved next time with him just to see if he is a little better. Ill post it here when I try it.

[total.boredom]

I tried the dead rider out for myself last night as well, (second game, second tie!). Played against my friend's viktorias, and I was pretty impressed. He managed to drag back a convict gunslinger and someone else ( can't remember her name, but she had a glave and could get a 6" melée range) back to their messy deaths. He also dragged a ronin away from nicodem. Was also handy to bring the corpse counters back to nicodem. Most of all, it was fun dragging people around!

[quotemyname]

I'm not sure if this was covered in the tactica earlier or not:

Can Mortimer use his (All) Make My Own Friends spell to resurrect Nicodem due to Nic's ability to be considered undead, and lack of soul stone cost for being a master?

[Wodschow]

I'm not sure if this was covered in the tactica earlier or not:

Can Mortimer use his (All) Make My Own Friends spell to resurrect Nicodem due to Nic's ability to be considered undead, and lack of soul stone cost for being a master?

Eh.. All masters are unique so no.

Also I certainly don't think Nicodem can be considered Undead for purposes such as this when he's not actually on the field (very much like I'm certain that hiring him with Leveticus is a no-go).

[hippieshopper]

Yeah, he can't be summoned.

Someone asked a similar question at my LGS about turning Johan into the undeadliness and doing that. He did get a nice benefit from Bolster Undead though. (it was a 2v2 idea)

[Q'iq'el]

Was also handy to bring the corpse counters back to nicodem.

There are several wrongs with this.

1. To be able to pick up a corpse counter, you must be able to use it (Book1 p24). The Rider cannot use any counters.

In a classical Nicodem crew it makes only Nicodem and Mortimer capable of picking up Corpse Counters. Vultures work around the restriction - if you check the wording of their Bring back ability, you'll realize it is Nicodem who picks up a counter within 3" from the Vulture, not the Vulture itself.

2. You cannot drop a counter and a counter carried by another mini is impossible to use (Book 1 page 24). Even if the Rider could pick up counters, Nicodem couldn't use them. There are exceptions, but none of Nicodem spells falls into that category (if you want to compare with spells that can do it, check out Nephilims' Grow and Mature wordings).

Edited April 1, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[total.boredom]

Sorry, I was unclear with that,

He brought the corpse counters back before they were corpse counters. By dragging models back to be killed near nicodem, he helped control where they were placed.

I apologize for being unclear

[Brence]

I'd have to say altough I dont think many will agree I rather enjoy playing Killjoy in my Nicodem Crew at 35 points.

Nic's ability to summon Mindless Zombies with fair ease makes for a nice sacrificing unit to summon KJ to the table. Also they can act as a nice meat buffer when KJ thinks its better to charge your way then towards the enemy. In my last games where I used him he was quite impressive.

[Q'iq'el]

I'd have to say altough I dont think many will agree I rather enjoy playing Killjoy in my Nicodem Crew at 35 points.

Nic's ability to summon Mindless Zombies with fair ease makes for a nice sacrificing unit to summon KJ to the table. Also they can act as a nice meat buffer when KJ thinks its better to charge your way then towards the enemy. In my last games where I used him he was quite impressive.

The meat buffer thing is OK, but I don't think you can use Mindless Zombies to actually summon KJ.

Only crew members receive ability to summon KJ via Blood Sacrifice. Mindless Zombies are under Nicodem's Zombie Control if in range (and considered friendly in such case), but they do not become crew members due to their Neutral rule.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Q'iq'el

[Brence]

Hmmz didnt see that one, well throwing out a Punk Zombie just before death would also get KJ in the game.

[Borzag]

I think a dog would also work to summon Killjoy, yeah? It's something that I've been doing some research on, but haven't had a chance to test in practice. It's a (1) action to summon KJ, so having a dog Wk and then summon might do it... maybe.

[ispep]

While you can use a dog as a Killjoy delivery system, its not as good as a Necropunk using Slow to Die. The Necropunks are speedy, and will get more than 10 inches into your opponents face. Also, its better to bring Killjoy out during one of your opponents activations instead of your own. That lets Killjoy have some fun before your opponent gets to activate and wreck his day.

If you wanted to go with the dog, make sure your opponent has finished activating all of their models before you run the puppy up.

[hippieshopper]

While you can use a dog as a Killjoy delivery system, its not as good as a Necropunk using Slow to Die. The Necropunks are speedy, and will get more than 10 inches into your opponents face. Also, its better to bring Killjoy out during one of your opponents activations instead of your own. That lets Killjoy have some fun before your opponent gets to activate and wreck his day.

If you wanted to go with the dog, make sure your opponent has finished activating all of their models before you run the puppy up.

I gotta go with ispep's idea.

I prefer to use a slow to die action as well. Which makes Necropunks ideal.

Also if you get a Punk Zombie in the mix and he gets wiped out, you can try that too.

But just be warned...although I am sure you folks know this. As cool as KJ is, he's not invulnerable, so bringing in some backup is a great idea.

[Borzag]

Okay, finally got around to trying this on the weekend:

Rez v Rez (Nico vs McM), 20SS. He took a few Necropunks, the Chihuahua, a Flesh Construct (or was that summoned... can't remember) and Seb. I took KJ, Mortimer and a Burd.

Given the Strategies (his was Assasinate, mine was Recon) and Schemes (his Bodyguard vs my Land Grab) I'd planned to use KJ to eliminate McM, by delivering him via Gull and Punk Zombie (Mortimer digs up a corpse and Interacts with the Gull to hand it over, Gull flies over and creates a Punk via Reanimator, Punk does his thing). If all went well, create a couple of dogs to take quarters and whammo.

Worked out well, and agree that Summon KJ is the best way to use a Punk. If McM hadn't succesfully run away I'd have had him too...

Question based on a suggestion from the local Henchie: in larger games, would killing the Punk summon Bete AND summon KJ? I ask as Drawn to Death indicates that the model has to die (covered by losing the last wound) but Slow To Die means he acts before this, and therefore summoning KJ instead.

Just a thought...

[Sandwich]

Both Killjoy and Bete Noir are placed.

So yes, one Punk Zombie could be used to summon them both.

[Golden]

Please explain why, and "where" I can find the info to summon them both off the same punk. Your strategies sound solid Sandwich, but I seem to remember something about only one model being able to be summoned as a result of Drawn to Death. Think it was in the second book.

I had the same idea at one point, but remember finding a reason that it wouldn't work like that.

[Q'iq'el]

Please explain why, and "where" I can find the info to summon them both off the same punk. Your strategies sound solid Sandwich, but I seem to remember something about only one model being able to be summoned as a result of Drawn to Death. Think it was in the second book.

I had the same idea at one point, but remember finding a reason that it wouldn't work like that.

Drawn to Death is not a "summon". The model is placed. There's a difference - Placed models do not get Slow, for example, while the Summoned do.

Other than that you have to look into the threads discussing the rule of equivalency - it doesn't apply to everything.

[Golden]

Thank you, Qiqel. I didn't actually notice the difference in wording. Pointing it out should be enough to discourage any arguments from future opponents.

[MoosePandy212]

well i read this tactica but i am sad that it is so short and did not really help me . you say that rigor mortis is his most powerful combat spell but have you not looked at decay? nicadem is the master i want most right now and so i am reading these tacticas to learn more about the undead masters so that i will be better off when i finally buy my nicadem crew. thank you very much for writing this tactica

[quotemyname]

well i read this tactica but i am sad that it is so short and did not really help me . you say that rigor mortis is his most powerful combat spell but have you not looked at decay? nicadem is the master i want most right now and so i am reading these tacticas to learn more about the undead masters so that i will be better off when i finally buy my nicadem crew. thank you very much for writing this tactica

Nic was one of my first masters, and I play him frequently. I would have to agree that Rigor Mortis is the more powerful spell in combat. In Malifaux, activation control is KEY. Being able to create a hole in your opponents activations with Paralyze is amazing. As far as decay goes... It does damage, sure. But keep in mind that it heals undead units. Let me say that again. It heals undead units. I would submit that Decay is actually a support spell that doubles as a ranged attack from time to time. It is not to be used as his main source of offense. Nic should be healing his creations with that spell. If he really wants to hurt someone with Decay, he should STILL attack his own units, cheat down their resist, and have the spell blast onto adjacent enemy targets (or more of his zombies for healing)! The only time I really directly target an enemy unit with Decay is if I have a high Tomes in hand and foresee cheating it in for the discard trigger.

Rigor Mortis: Offensive

Decay: Mainly support; Some offense.

[shekbo]

I apologize about the short length, moosepandy, I think you'll find many cool tips and tricks in the replies to the thread, there is 5 pages of them.

A note about gravedigger: there was an early errata that made search not work with gravedigger. Dogs cannot search. Currently the only way to pull corpses out of nowhere is mortimer's exhume.

decay is a good spell, but for a master, it actually is one of the least powerful "main combat" spells. It's good for finishing things off, but rigoring your opponent's most powerful model for a turn, or two, or however long you want to keep it up... That's huge. Nicodem very much relies on a swarm of undead minions to do the real fighting for him. Rigoring a powerful enemy model than either subjecting it to a swarm of attacks or fighting something else while it's frozen is a great tactic. The other advantage of Nicodem himself having it is he can soulstone it to potentially freeze even masters. That is just huge, and can knock armies where the master is the lynchpin of the force haywire.