Too elite heavy

[Baron_EvilD]

I tend to find whilst playing Outcasts that for a majority of my games I seem to be going too elite heavy with only 6 or so models on the field in a 50ss game. Wondering if anyone has any tips or hints to help me figure out a more rounded out crew thought process. I tend to play Von Schill at the moment and Jack Daw

[Freman]

The Freikorps are a reasonably elite crew with most of their models in the 6-10 stone range so they tend to naturally produce smaller crews. You have to concentrate on lower cost models to get a higher model count.

Jack Daw is a bit less elite as most tormented models are in the 5-8 stone range, making building a larger crew easier (although they're not as durable as the Freikorps).

You do have to focus on each model doing its thing though.

Jack Daw 7 stone cache

three curses, twist and turn, writhing torment

leader, controller, somewhat of a beatstick

Lady Ligeia

complete pain in the butt, cheap activation

Montressor

brick by brick, fearful whispers

now he's a reasonably durable beatstick

Jaakuna Ubume

the creeping terror

lure bot, aura multiplier for the rest of the crew

Dead Outlaw

surprisingly tough shooter

Dead Outlaw

surprisingly tough shooter

Envy

more shooting

The pool of Tormented models has increased to the point you may not need the "beater+guilty to torment them" combination all the time. That's good because Guilty aren't particularly useful for anything else, so you can use the five stones to buy something decent, like a nurse.

[Rogue1]

Lately I have been running the following list:

Jack Daw (all 3 curses, twist and turn, writhing torment)

Hannah (I pay better)

Hans (advanced sight)

Freikorps Librarian

Guilty

Malifaux child

Hodgepodge effigy

Greed

3 cache

 

It comes in at 8 activations and has been surprisingly effective at both schemes and killing.

Hans especially can catch people off guard with 2 focused shots per turn using I Pay Better/twist and turn and Advanced Sight.  He also can get you out of one particularly bad matchup with Hoffman by getting rid of Arcanists Assets though it takes either some very good timing or a pretty good hand/luck (two 8's, an 11, and a 13).

Add to that Jack, Hannah, and Greed all using The Greed Spreads and things start dying faster than many opponents initially assume just looking at the crew.  The guilty is a bit of a letdown after the first turn but it does allow Hannah, Jack, itself, and possibly even the Malifaux child to torment the crew.  It can make an OK scheme runner using its push though.

[SuperFly TNT]

Typical Von Schill list that I use:

50 SS Outcasts Crew
Von Schill + 4 Pool
 - The Shirt Comes Off (1)
 - Survivalist (1)
 - Engage at Will (1)
Steam Trunk (3)
Strongarm Suit (10)
 - Oath Keeper (1)
Freikorps Librarian (7)
Johan (6)
Freikorps Trapper (6)
Freikorps Trapper (6)
Freikorpsmann (5)

 You can adjust to suit opponent and strats/schemes.  

[Cedar]

Emissary is good option for both VS and Jack since it provides free shirts or another curse.

[admiralvorkraft]

The typical weakness for Outcast masters is their low cache coupled with a heavy reliance on upgrades. That's probably part of why your crews are so small, and so it's good to be aware of budgeting for your master - Daw can easily cost you 9 stones if you aren't careful. Fortunately, the flip side is that many of our masters can be pretty durable even without stones for prevention. I find that 5 is pretty good for Daw and I'll sometimes run as few as 4.

I find that the sweetspot for crew count is usually 8 activations, and that 5-8 stone models are what do the most of my heavy lifting. With Jack I like one Guilty, and another cheap activation (Void Wretch maybe, Child, Student of Conflict, Effigy, etc...). Then a couple of Dead Outlaws almost always make the cut, and a heavy shooter Sue/Alyce/Envy. I like Johan and/or Jaakuna Ubume, and maybe Gluttony or Sloth depending on S&S. 

A typical crew for me looks something like;

Jack Daw - 5ss
 Writhing Torment
 Twist and Turn
 Curses
Malifaux Child
2x Dead Outlaws
Jaakuna Ubume
 Creeping Terror
Sue
 Return Fire
Guilty
Lust/Envy/Gluttony/Sloth

A common permutation drops Twist and Turn on Daw for Scout the Field, the Child becomes a Void Wretch, and (with some points shuffling) Papa Loco fits into the last slot. He might carry Oathkeeper or Creeping Terror depending on the terrain. The Wretch buries him late in the turn, Daw activates, ditches Scout to charge something, kills it, popping Loco out, who companions to blow himself up, taking out a good chunk of my opponent's support network.

[Seadhna]

1 hour ago, admiralvorkraft said:

The typical weakness for Outcast masters is their low cache coupled with a heavy reliance on upgrades. That's probably part of why your crews are so small, and so it's good to be aware of budgeting for your master - Daw can easily cost you 9 stones if you aren't careful. Fortunately, the flip side is that many of our masters can be pretty durable even without stones for prevention. I find that 5 is pretty good for Daw and I'll sometimes run as few as 4.

I find that the sweetspot for crew count is usually 8 activations, and that 5-8 stone models are what do the most of my heavy lifting. With Jack I like one Guilty, and another cheap activation (Void Wretch maybe, Child, Student of Conflict, Effigy, etc...). Then a couple of Dead Outlaws almost always make the cut, and a heavy shooter Sue/Alyce/Envy. I like Johan and/or Jaakuna Ubume, and maybe Gluttony or Sloth depending on S&S. 

A typical crew for me looks something like;

Jack Daw - 5ss
 Writhing Torment
 Twist and Turn
 Curses
Malifaux Child
2x Dead Outlaws
Jaakuna Ubume
 Creeping Terror
Sue
 Return Fire
Guilty
Lust/Envy/Gluttony/Sloth

A common permutation drops Twist and Turn on Daw for Scout the Field, the Child becomes a Void Wretch, and (with some points shuffling) Papa Loco fits into the last slot. He might carry Oathkeeper or Creeping Terror depending on the terrain. The Wretch buries him late in the turn, Daw activates, ditches Scout to charge something, kills it, popping Loco out, who companions to blow himself up, taking out a good chunk of my opponent's support network.

Why the Child though? I don't think he can copy Jack's (0) actions, and there aren't any curses on him to pass around. 

 

Sue with Return Fire is a nightmare for the opponent though. 

 

And I wish I had ordered the Outlaws from Black Friday (

[Baron_EvilD]

Really appreciate the feedback/input guys. I tend to find my auto include for both is the Emissary as I just think with these two masters especially they work. I mean running Von Schill with 3 upgrades and then giving him his shirt so he has 4 is awesome.

[Seadhna]

On the topic: 

we don't have many undercosted 7 ss Henchmen/Enforcers like Gremlins and Ressers, neither do we have powerhouse 5ss minions like Belles, but we do have pretty powerful models that synergize well with the master. 

 

Most of my lists tend to run as follows:

master + 3-4 SS cache and 3-5 ss of upgrades

Two 9-10ss models

an 8-9 ss model

a couple 5 ss minions

a hodgepodge effigy or something similar for 4 ss

 

So the most crowded/competitive slot would be 9-10ss, because there's so much to choose from (Rusty, Monty, Mad Dog, Sue with Return Fire, Emissary, Strongarm, Bishop, Hannah - all are amazing models). 

 

7-8 ss is kinda dominated by upgradeless Sue and the Libarian 

 

if I can take a strong 6ss model, I would always take one (so Jaakuna for Jack, Marshals for Tara, now Dead Outlaws for Parker, Johan for anyone else)

for 5ss there's little rivalry for Big Jake and Bandidos

if you got 4ss to spare, get the Effigy, it's amazing

 

If you're taking something really expensive (like A&D, Aionus or Rusty/Hannah with upgrades), you better have a 3 ss totem handy or you'll be heavily outactivated. 

 

Still, there are scheme pools where you don't care about activation control, so running even 7 models might be alright. 

If you're playing something like Interference with Tail'em, you better bring those minions in order not to be a sitting duck. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

What is a typical list for you Evil?

I often run into the same problem, but I've seen a number of von Schill lists with 7-8 models on here.  7 models is okay, at 6 models you're starting to make it really hard for yourself.

 

So I figured perhaps I'm using too many upgrades and too high a cache.  Maybe have a browse through some of the vS threads to look at some other lists.

[admiralvorkraft]

2 hours ago, Seadhna said:

Why the Child though? I don't think he can copy Jack's (0) actions, and there aren't any curses on him to pass around. 

Healing and tempo. He can copy the (1) on Twist and Turn, usually to torment a model (copying the Guilty's action) or Lure something (copying Jaakuna).

[KrazyIvan]

IMO we have some of the most cost effective Enforcers in the game:

• Johan: Good beater, flurry, condition removal, self heal on top of HtK
• Friekorps Librarian: Furious casting on a CA attack that can  , ranged healing, immunity to , suit stripping
• Friekorps Trapper: Ok, not an enforcer but very good for holding down sections of the board, especially from vantage point terrain
• Big Jake: Scheme/Strategy clutch shenanigans that can easily cause gotcha moments

All of these at 6 or 7 SS each, and they function perfectly well without any upgrades. I wold say that you might consider adding a couple of these guys to your pool rather than a 10-13 SS model with upgrades. It's a good to pad your model count without giving up too much effectiveness. Personally I'm hard pressed to run an outcast crew without Johan and a Librarian.