Gremlin crew box to start with

[Gdead909]

Hey guys I am new to malifuax scene but not new to wargaming in general. I wanted to take a break from playing warmahordes and my buddies started playing this so i thought I would give it a try. I have only played one game with the brewmaster box and even thoughh i lost badly it was amazing. I was wondering if there was a gremlin crew box that I should start with to get the best grip of the faction. I know online it said somer was the most well rounded but I wanted to hear your guys thoughts.

 

We have league starting up on thursday so I need to decide soon if I want to use them there. Or use the arcanists I picked up.

 

Thanks,

Dave

[Omenbringer]

Well probably the easiest entry into the faction is the Ophelia Lacroix crew box. Competitive and fairly self sufficient right out of the box. Only thing you'll likely want extra is a Slop Hauler (and pretty much every Gremlin crew wants one of those anyway).

I am a huge fan of Som'er (and have been from very near the start of the game) though he can have a bit higher learning curve due to all the options he has available and typically has a higher cost of entry. Because of all those options and synergies he is likely the best exposure to the Faction as a whole.

[Dogmantra]

I'd suggest Som'er, Ophelia or maybe Wong as a first box to not only learn the game but give you a good start to build off.

Som'er is an all rounder and has a fantastic box to provide more models for any crew, he is also one of the two main summoners in the faction if you were interested in that, his crew box is based on spamming Bayou Gremlins. The upside of starting with this box is you're running a lot of the same model - once you start to remember Bayou Gremlin stats, you can really speed up your game.

Ophelia is a killing machine who juggles upgrades to help her out. Her box is the opposite of Som'er's in a way, since she comes with four elite models. The advantage of starting here is that Ophelia is arguably the most straightforward master in the faction, but she still has enough interesting tricks to learn.

Wong is a blasty mage. He comes with a cool and fun Henchman and three Lightning Bugs. This box is the most complicated overall with some shenanigans going on, but once you've figured them out a little, Lightning Bugs are very versatile and cool models, and Wong himself can be very fun to play.

 

EDIT: like Omenbringer said, Slop Haulers are very very very good and should probably be your second purchase in the Gremlin faction. You get two in a box but one is often enough to make a crew turn from good to great.

[Gdead909]

First off thanks for the fast responses. Secondly would you recommend getting more then one box? I believe all 3 of those boxes are available.

[daniello_s]

Go crazy, man! Take Ulix!

[Omenbringer]

If I was going to purchase 3 Gremlin Crew Boxes to maximize the faction they would be Som'er, Ulix, and either Ophelia or Mah. Som'er provides the middle ground for those crew boxes being great with both pigs and Gremlins. Still likely going to want a box of Piglets, another box of Bayou Gremlins and of course the Slop Hauler (first purchase honestly) however, that right there covers virtually every base except perhaps a Pigapult list for Som'er.

[Gdead909]

So I picked up two boxes that were left. Wong and somer.

[Kobayashi]

7 minutes ago, Gdead909 said:

[...] Wong[...]

I for one welcome our blasty overlord... next box I'm gonna get, too >:D

[Kofibrake]

Picking up mine today (Wong). Will be welcomed into the rest of his crew (Gracie and Burt).

Do you guys recommend more than the boxes' allowance of lightning bugs or is 3 the sweet spot?

 

[Dogmantra]

I don't think you need more than 3, and I tend to play with 3 just because 15 stones is about what I can spare on 'em. That said, you totally could spam the heck out of them. They are very versatile, although slightly lacking on the damage front. Since you've just started picking up models, I would focus on widening your options before buying into a ridiculous spam list.

 

Unfortunately this is the case with me and my 9 slop hauler crew too :c

[Math Mathonwy]

22 minutes ago, Kofibrake said:

Do you guys recommend more than the boxes' allowance of lightning bugs or is 3 the sweet spot?

Three is certainly plenty. If you feel like you need more, get Slop Haulers instead.

[D6Damager]

With only the models in the box, I would suggest Ophelia or Wong. They work well right out of the box and are fairly straightforward to use and thus learn the game on.

Somer is great, but needs extra models to really shine (pigs, slop haulers, extra bayou gremlins etc.). He is very versatile in that he can be built in many different ways, but you will need more models for that to happen and he works best at a higher SS game IMO.

In Ulix's box only, the boars aren't that great and you need more piglets, slop hauler, and a gracie or pigapult. A warpig or two for summoning as well here.

Mah's box is good, but I wouldn't recommend her for just beginning as she relies on careful positioning and triggers. Not bad...just more difficult to learn on.

Brewmaster is the same as Mah in that his box is fine, but not beginner friendly. Like Somer, His crew can be built in many different ways.

Zoraida is a good box set for straight up Neverborn. As gremlins you are not getting the optimal use out of Bad Juju since the upgrade that makes him good is Neverborn only. Considering he is the most expensive model in the box it's kinda not the best use of points. That being said, Zoraida + 3 Sillurids + Hexed Among You is a fantastic base for any scheme and strategy relying on placing or interacting with markers.

[Sordid Strumpet]

11 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

I don't think you need more than 3, and I tend to play with 3 just because 15 stones is about what I can spare on 'em. That said, you totally could spam the heck out of them. They are very versatile, although slightly lacking on the damage front. Since you've just started picking up models, I would focus on widening your options before buying into a ridiculous spam list.

 

Unfortunately this is the case with me and my 9 slop hauler crew too :c

Wong and whoever ends up being Glowy do most of the damage dealing in the crew, so I don't think it's a big issue that Lightning Bugs don't put out massive amounts of damage. The ability to put 6 damage (they are reckless right?) on something with armour, and do so consistently with Ca 6 is what I'm very keen on.

[Omenbringer]

11 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

If you feel like you need more, get Slop Haulers instead.

This is fairly solid advice for any of the crew boxes. For the most part, Slop Haulers should be the first additional purchase for any Gremlin crew box. You likely wont need both of them (more true as you learn how to pilot your crew) but you will definitely want at least one.

[Sordid Strumpet]

I've heard mixed reports on slop haulers - some say they're essential, others say they're a trap. If you have a way of moving them (Trixie, Ophelia, Gracie (?) or something like that) I'd say they're fantastic. But otherwise I think they're a bit of a liability if you give in to the temptation of clustering up around them for the heal.

[Dogmantra]

1 hour ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

Wong and whoever ends up being Glowy do most of the damage dealing in the crew, so I don't think it's a big issue that Lightning Bugs don't put out massive amounts of damage. The ability to put 6 damage (they are reckless right?) on something with armour, and do so consistently with Ca 6 is what I'm very keen on.

I was talking lightning bugs in general, although I still stand by not super high damage as a reason not to spam 'em - even if you do have your glowy target and Wong to put out a bunch of damage, that's 7 - 10 stones for the model, 3 or so on upgrades (glowy, dirty cheater, stilts if francois) and 5+ for general support, so you're still only looking at 15, maaaybe 20 stones being reasonable to spend on bugs, with 10 - 15 spare for utility.

 

1 hour ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

I've heard mixed reports on slop haulers - some say they're essential, others say they're a trap. If you have a way of moving them (Trixie, Ophelia, Gracie (?) or something like that) I'd say they're fantastic. But otherwise I think they're a bit of a liability if you give in to the temptation of clustering up around them for the heal.

Really? I have never heard anyone claim they're anything but brilliant. Reckless and bayou two card, 8 inch charge, minimum 2 damage Ml5 attack, a Df debuff and an okay shoot for backup is worth 5 stones on its own imo, and that's ignoring the heal. I've never had much problem having them keep up, particularly because gremlins are generally a ranged crew, so the Wk 4 is normally enough, and if it's not, a single turn without healing for a reckless 12" walk is way more than sufficient. They're pretty much the only model I would run a crew consisting solely of, and I actually did although it didn't get past deployment because we changed our mind about board and faction choices.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Oh I agree that more than 3 bugs is pointless (I take 2), but they're fantastic damage dealers against the right target.

I don't think Slop Haulers are bad by any means, just if you focus on trying to stay in the healing bubble they're holding your crew back. They've got enough utility that they're not required to run as healers - I'd look at the healing as more of an opportunistic ability and use them for their other skills instead, but I'd also not run more than one of them. Maybe two if you have lots of piglets and need the debuff to turn them into more reliable damage dealers.

I just don't think they're essential (Unless you're Ulix and want to summon all day long). There are other sources of healing (such as lightning bugs, eat your fill etc.) and Gremlins can run pretty well as a melee list (with Mah or Zoraida or Ulix) or as an elite list that doesn't need much healing. I think the necessity of slop haulers is a remnant of the time when Gremlins were forced into a particular play style due to the limited number of models that were out.

[rgarbonzo]

Ideally you would want Ophelia and Wong boxes as they are the most complimentary and give you some flexibility in list building.  Somer should ideally have at least 8 Bayou Gremlins,  but if you read the Pull My Finger entry on Ophelia 1.5 you can play Somer that way also. 

[Kivi]

Hi & sorry for hijacking this thread, but...

Bonzo, could you be a bit more specific with that? I'm switching from warhammer (I played night goblins) to something playable where I live and Somer is clearly coolest. So this all is really new to me, but I thought that I could get by with those four gremlins and plug any gaps with bushwhackers and slop haulers. Here the standard is 35ss, does it have something to do with? I'd like to not have that many same miniatures, because I still have nightmares about those 70+ night goblin regiments...

[Adran]

35 ss is quite a small game (sort of like a 1000 point warhammer game), and can lead to some odd effects. If you are planning on using the Family tree upgrade with Sommer, and summoning gremlins, then you probably need 8 (some people will suggest more. In my experience, if you need more than 8, then its probably a win more situation)  . If you aren't summoning them, then you can easily get by with the 4 from the box.  

 

For a dissenting Slop Hauler voice, you want to look at Malal's view on them. 

[Omenbringer]

23 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

I've heard mixed reports on slop haulers - some say they're essential, others say they're a trap. If you have a way of moving them (Trixie, Ophelia, Gracie (?) or something like that) I'd say they're fantastic. But otherwise I think they're a bit of a liability if you give in to the temptation of clustering up around them for the heal.

Got to echo Dogmantra, I have never heard anything bad about Slop Haulers. Moving them or having them keep up with the rest of the crew is rarely an issue for Gremlins. A single piglet tender can provide plenty of "free" mobility for any gremlin crew that needs it.

22 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Really? I have never heard anyone claim they're anything but brilliant. Reckless and bayou two card, 8 inch charge, minimum 2 damage Ml5 attack, a Df debuff and an okay shoot for backup is worth 5 stones on its own imo, and that's ignoring the heal. I've never had much problem having them keep up, particularly because gremlins are generally a ranged crew, so the Wk 4 is normally enough, and if it's not, a single turn without healing for a reckless 12" walk is way more than sufficient. They're pretty much the only model I would run a crew consisting solely of, and I actually did although it didn't get past deployment because we changed our mind about board and faction choices.

Dont know if I would run an entire crew of them (or more than 1) though do agree they offer plenty of benefit outside of just healing.

22 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

I don't think Slop Haulers are bad by any means, just if you focus on trying to stay in the healing bubble they're holding your crew back.

I just don't think they're essential (Unless you're Ulix and want to summon all day long). There are other sources of healing (such as lightning bugs, eat your fill etc.) and Gremlins can run pretty well as a melee list (with Mah or Zoraida or Ulix) or as an elite list that doesn't need much healing. I think the necessity of slop haulers is a remnant of the time when Gremlins were forced into a particular play style due to the limited number of models that were out.

Would agree that the first bit is where the trap could occur with them, though it doesn't take long to learn how to navigate the trap (Gremlins have a lot of tools in this regard).

As for the second bit, well sure you can play with out them (just as you can play Menoth Warjacks in Warmachine without the Choir), but doing so often times places you at a distinct disadvantage (as they did influence the factions design quite a bit). Even elite lists tend to really benefit from having them around, Gremlin's are not the most durable of models (in terms of Wound values). Even with all the new model options and play styles available, there aren't many builds that dont function significantly better with them in the list.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Not bad by any means, just nowhere near as essential as people keep saying. You need to be in a 3" bubble and it's a 2 action. The debuff is nice, but that's more AP you spend making another model more efficient and not much besides when for 5 stones you can have any number of fantasic models like lught ing bugs, and for onky a stone or two more you can get stuff like Francois, Pere, Remi etc. 

 

I never end up having room for them in my crew, but that might be because I mainly play adcanists so I don't use reckless as a default and most of my crews don't have a whole lot of dumb luck.

[Omenbringer]

14 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

Not bad by any means, just nowhere near as essential as people keep saying. You need to be in a 3" bubble and it's a 2 action. The debuff is nice, but that's more AP you spend making another model more efficient and not much besides when for 5 stones you can have any number of fantasic models like lught ing bugs, and for onky a stone or two more you can get stuff like Francois, Pere, Remi etc. 

I never end up having room for them in my crew, but that might be because I mainly play adcanists so I don't use reckless as a default and most of my crews don't have a whole lot of dumb luck.

If Gremlins aren't your main faction then I can see your argument up to a point, however all the models you mention above function a lot better (more efficiently) when healing is available (Just as the faction as a whole functions better when the overlapping synergies are available). For example the Lacroix's are decent without Reckless and Dumb Luck but they are much more effective with them, healing is what allows them to function turn after turn. Lightning Bugs are good on their own (probably a bit to good for their low cost given their versatility) but as of this moment there isn't a way to replace them when they are killed, meaning keeping them alive is still important. Mass Healing from a Slop Hauler is one of the best ways to do that.

Again, sure you can forego Slop Hauler's in a list and still be somewhat competitive, but the Faction as a whole was largely designed with access to healing in mind, so doing so is going to make the game much more difficult. I have never had a game where they did not easily offset their 5 SS cost by keeping my other Gremlins/ Pigs alive and functioning at peak performance.

[Math Mathonwy]

14 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said:

Not bad by any means, just nowhere near as essential as people keep saying. You need to be in a 3" bubble and it's a 2 action. The debuff is nice, but that's more AP you spend making another model more efficient and not much besides when for 5 stones you can have any number of fantasic models like lught ing bugs, and for onky a stone or two more you can get stuff like Francois, Pere, Remi etc. 

If you forget the healing, is Lightning Bug really that much better than a Slop Hauler? They have very different ideal targets and do different things. Personally I would nearly always take one Slop Hauler and one Lightning Bug rather than two Lightning Bugs.

 

20 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

I have never had a game where they did not easily offset their 5 SS cost by keeping my other Gremlins/ Pigs alive and functioning at peak performance.

In all of my recent games my two Slop Haulers have died turn 2 at the latest. Double Austringers or double Trappers with I Pay Better make really short work of them, unfortunately Of course, Lightning Bugs wouldn't have fared any better.

[Omenbringer]

40 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

In all of my recent games my two Slop Haulers have died turn 2 at the latest. Double Austringers or double Trappers with I Pay Better make really short work of them, unfortunately Of course, Lightning Bugs wouldn't have fared any better.

The bane of virtually the entire Gremlin faction unfortunately. A pair of Austringers is such a hard counter against us (though truthfully a lot of crews), about the only answer we have is a Pigapult list which comes with it's own set of issues.