Defensive stance?

[SpiralngCadavr]

So, it says you spend a card and action number equal to the number of defensive +1's you want. Can you gain 0AP and use it as a 0 action?

[Dracomax]

I think if you did, it would give you defensive+0.

[craftysteve]

No, you can't use your (0) action since it is a "free" action - no AP actually spent. You must spend at least 1 Action Point to gain anything from Defensive Stance.

[The Godlyness]

Unless you are shenlong.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I understand you wouldn't get Defensive +1, I'm asking if you can do it, because, among other things:

-you can dump a useless card for the Void Wretchs' defense to go up

-Reading the Stone says when you use the action, not when you gain anything from it

 

...there are likely other ones I'm forgetting, but there are reasons to use a 0 action, spend a card, or take a Defensive Stance, that don't create benefits on their own.

 

I'm not saying it would be a brilliant move, just asking if it's a legal option.

[Dracomax]

In reality, I don't think so. That being said, is there anything that keeps you from just discarding cards for no purpose?

 

I haven't really read through the rules with that in mind.

[The Godlyness]

Shenlong specifically states his crew can do it. So to me this means you cant do it. Page 34 small book. But frankly under the defensive stance it does not say you cant. Nor is anything preventing you from doing so.

So sure you can do it. But it feels.....uncouth.

[dgraz]

I'd say no. You have to spend something...........zero is nothing....therefore you can't spend something.

[Ausplosions]

I've always read it as you must spend AP.

A (0) gets you no Defensive Stance.

I've read it the same for Shenlong as well.

His ability allows you to take Defensive Stance as a (0),but you would then also need to spend an AP to gain anything.

This will need an errata, because as is, Shenlong ability doesn't do anything.

[The Godlyness]

Knowing the Wind and Stone: Friendly models within a6 may take the Focus Action as a (0) Action and may take the (1) Defensive Stance Action as a (0) Action.

His abilty works fine. You are taking a 1action. But spending 0 ap. Or rather gaining the benifits of a 1 action.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Ausplosions, the question is not getting the benefit, but if you can take the action.

 

Shen Long's ability specifically says you can take a (1) action as a (0) action, it doesn't say you're allowed to take defensive stance as a (0) action, so doesn't factor in to this.

[Ausplosions]

Okay.

How do you gain 0 AP anyway?

[rancor709]

Technically There is no such thing as a generated zero ap. Call out box on pg 37

 

zero ap action.

Some models will have actions that have an AP cost of 0. A model may only take one of these free actions per turn.

 

No where in AP generation does it state you generate a zero ap. However specific ap are mention as is the ap difference between minions and masters. The call out box to me demonstrates that unless you have a listed zero, or a granted zero action, you don't have the ability to take a zero action.

[baskinders]

Rancor is correct, not all models receive "a free (0) AP to spend", but some models have an action that doesn't cost you any of your AP and you may take only one of these free actions per activation.

Defensive stance isn't free, it costs 1AP. Some models have abilities that allow you to also take Defensive stance for free once per activation as long as you don't take any other free actions, but it doesn't cost you "your (0)AP point" because there's no such thing.

[The Godlyness]

But under general. Actions it says these are not listed on cards and may be taken. Ie. Charge and walk and defensive stance. I don't like it but you can us defensive as a zero action. You don't gain the condtion but you can still. Discard a card.

[The Godlyness]

Or we can take the completely literal wording and say spending no ap is not spending ap. Therefore you can not take the action. I like that better.

[baskinders]

But under general. Actions it says these are not listed on cards and may be taken. Ie. Charge and walk and defensive stance. I don't like it but you can us defensive as a zero action. You don't gain the condtion but you can still. Discard a card.

Sure all models can take those actions even though they're not listed on their cards, but they still have to have the resources to pay for them.

The only resources models generate to pay for actions (without special rules) are their AP. You don't generate any (0) AP, just AP. And unless an action says you can take it for free, or in shorthand (0) AP, you have to spend one or more AP to take the action.

I think the OP is visualizing models generating 2 x (1) AP and 1 x (0) AP each turn, but this is not the case. You (normally) generate 2 AP which can then be spent on (1) AP or (2) AP actions, and you can take a free (0) AP action without spending any AP if you specifically have access to one.

So in a long explanatory way, I'm agreeing with your second post

[Thaarup]

(0) Action is a special kind of Action. It can only be used for the specific (0) Actions that is available to that specific model...so no, you can´t make a Defensive (0) Action unless a specific rule tells otherwise.

[Ausplosions]

This was fun.