Fastenhate Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 johan's action Open Revolt states : all friendly M&SU models within 6" heal 1/2/3 damage that cannot be cheated. Do you flip for each or flip once and apply results to all eligilble models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Flip once is how i read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fenton Crack Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 That's a good question. Since under Healing (pg. 47) it says "the healed model is considered to be the the model that makes the flip," would each model not need to then make there own flip? Since the healing flip may cheated, it seams a tad OP if you can cheat one face card to heal multiple models 3 wounds each? Would surely be good for the clump of two-wound spiders hanging out together after a Ramos triple-summon, as a single moderate card would have all three back to full health if the scrap marker used was located near Johan. As a Ramos player I am certainly interested to hear the verdict on this one....one flip would be nice, but would leave be feeling guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Clement Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 based on the line Fenton quoted, it seems pretty clear. Each model makes their own 1/2/3 healing flip which cannot be cheated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ratty Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 That's how I would probably read it. each model makes a 1/2/3 healing flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fastenhate Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 The ability states its a 1/2/3 flip that cannot be cheated. That makes it different than a normal healing flip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 That's how I would probably read it. each model makes a 1/2/3 healing flip. Would it not read "all friendly M&SU models within 6" make a healing flip 1/2/3 that cannot be cheated." If that was the case? But as is i see it as one flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fastenhate Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I agree with Godlyness, a Ramos crew could have 6-10 models with M&su. Would be strange making 10 flips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 zFiend Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 It can be argued both ways.. That's a tough one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fenton Crack Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 I would agree that my commentary regarding the potentially OP nature would not apply since in Open Revolt's situation the flip cannot be cheated. However, if the default is that the model healing is the one considered to be making the flip, I would think that it is still perhaps one card per model. I guess it should be statistically a wash either way as the average wounds healed over many games, except that if there are many models each with a flip, you increase the chances of hitting one of the jokers in any one game for some fun with the flubbed heal /total heal. Flipping one card for the red that counts for all four or five models would be like hitting the lottery (although admittedly not necessarily a bad thing as jokers are supposed to be "swingy.") The other reason one card per model may be preferred is if there are abilities that say things like "this model get plus flips to healing flips", or "models within x" get plus flips" regarding distance to a model handing out a buff or a buffing piece of terrain in a Story Encounter. If it was one flip for all, the modifiers could not be used. An interesting issue, since healing flips are, by default, flipped by the model healing, and they did not go out of their way to say, "Make a single healing flip for all models in 6"....", I would probably continue to play it one flip per model, but I can see how intelligent minds would differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Drool_bucket Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 To the FAQ with it! Quick, someone send up the Justin-Sign! (Agree that it can be reasonably read both ways) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Aramoro Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 The way I read it was that it is not a healing flip, just an ability which heals damage based on a flip, so it was 1 flip for all. I can kinda see how it might go both ways so maybe does need an faq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Joel Posted February 25, 2014 Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 I'd agree with Fenton - healing flips, which this is, are covered in the rulebook and each model would flip an individual card. I see nothing in the ability that would override the basic healing flip rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Bloaty Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 I've been making just the 1 flip. I read the ability as "All friendly M&SU models within 6" heal [the amount of this flip] damage that cannot be cheated." My assumption would be that it would say something like "All friendly M&SU models within 6" make a 1/2/3 healing flip which cannot be cheated." if it were meant for each model. I could be wrong, but that way makes the most sense to me and saves time of flipping tons of cards if you have several models in range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 HalcyonSeraph Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 In a colloquial English reading of the rules (which we are encouraged to make), there is no difference between a healing flip and a flip that heals you a given x/y/z amount. Open Revolt fulfills all the characteristics of a healing flip (which you'll not is not capitalized, implying it is not a defined game term in the way that Condition or Walk are). Thus it follows all the rules for Healing, except where specified (such as not being able to cheat it). Since healing flips have characteristics that could be affected on a model by model basis, we have to assume models are meant to take those flips individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted February 26, 2014 Report Share Posted February 26, 2014 You might have intent and that's a might. But as it is written. He flips they heal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 HalcyonSeraph Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 No, that is my point. As it is written, it is a flip that heals people, that is a healing flip. There's no Healing Flips vs healing flips issue like there was with Attack vs attack in previous editions. A flip that heals people uses the rules for healing flips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Johan is making a healing flip that does not heal himself. But heals others his flipped amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Joel Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 no he isn't - the model(s) that receives the healing are the ones that make the flip. That is stated under the healing flips rules in the rulebook. In the absence of any other rule saying how healing flips should be done, I'll follow the one in the rulebook thanks He uses the ability, all eligible models individually make a healing flip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 What version of open revolt are you reading ? Clearly if it worked lije you want it would be written as i posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fenton Crack Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 You are a work in a restaurant and your boss tells you: "Make a hotdog for all the customers in the dining area." It can be read two ways. Do you make one hotdog for each customer, or do you make one hotdog they are all expected to share? The command can be read either way, however the context of the situation lets us know that a restaurant is not likely to expect a group of people to share a hotdog. The context in the question at hand is less certain, however in the context of healing flips, which the book only references doing one per model, I feel the context leads us to read it as one flip per customer. I see how others can and will disagree, and don't imagine anyone being convinced to change positions. We will all likely just have to wait patiently for an official word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 mattyboy22 Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Johan is making a healing flip that does not heal himself. But heals others his flipped amount. He does heal himself. He is a friendly MSU in the specified range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 CRC Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 You are a work in a restaurant and your boss tells you: "Make a hotdog for all the customers in the dining area." It can be read two ways. Do you make one hotdog for each customer, or do you make one hotdog they are all expected to share? Technically, from an English grammar perspective, it can only be read one way. You make a single hotdog, large enough that all can partake. For the other meaning, the boss should say "Make a hot dog for each of the customers in the dining area." However, the context of the statement is strong enough that the employee will know what he meant, and his editor will circle the word "all" and suggest "each" as a replacement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 baskinders Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 Or less clearly, maybe it's another one of those times where humans wrote the rules and because of everyday human issues this particular case is worded less clearly than it could be? I'm inclined to agree that it should follow all the normal rules for healing flips and it should be done individually as there's nothing in the action specifically stating I can break those rules. However I can see the argument either way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 The Godlyness Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 He does heal himself. He is a friendly MSU in the specified range. My bad thought it was a (pulse)6 not a within 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Fenton Crack Posted February 27, 2014 Report Share Posted February 27, 2014 My bad thought it was a (pulse)6 not a within 6. I think they put it in as a raw 6" because as a Pulse they would only emanate as a 2" high cylinder and could not help models standing on terrain? As written I would imagine you can measure up to heal non-coplanar friendlies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Fastenhate
johan's action Open Revolt states : all friendly M&SU models within 6" heal 1/2/3 damage that cannot be cheated.
Do you flip for each or flip once and apply results to all eligilble models?
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