Misaki's Diving Attack

[DarcXON]

Does she need flight to be able to go through buildings?

This came after I finished a game against Misaki and I asked my opponent "why didn't you use Diving Attack to attack through the buildings?" His explanation was that Misaki required flight to do so.

My answer was that by RIW the part where it says "ignores Terrain" would mean she just draws a straight line to the target and finish the action as normal (unless she is out of range in which case she ends her activation).

At this point being so close to Adepticon, I just want to know how it works on her.

[i_was_like_you]

The simple answer: She's a ninja.

[Hateful Darkblack]

You don't need flight. Buildings are terrain. When you're ignoring terrain, you can ignore buildings.

[i_was_like_you]

Buildings...Misaki don't have time for that.

[Ryu]

I assume this also covers impassable terrain? Since it's also a type of terrain?

Very nice to clarify on this, one of my opponents didn't dive through impassable because it was vague to both of us.

[Kadeton]

All kinds of terrain, yes. Just pretend you're playing on a featureless flat board for the purposes of charging with Misaki.

[nilus]

Agree with the rest. She buts through the walls and kicks a bunch of ass

[sssk]

So if Misaki is at ground level, and wants to charge a model which is sat on a height 10 billion building, you just move her up to 8" horizontally and totally ignore the fact that she's climbing etc. You just literally place her 8" horizontally away from her current position (in this case, 8" horizontally, and 10 billion inches up)?

[Adran]

I don't think that works.

Diving Attack: This model Charges an enemy model ignoring LoS, terrain and intervening models. If the Charge fails end this model’s activation.

It doesn't allow you to move Ht for free as it doesn't grant flight, so Misaki will still need to get to melee range to attack.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I don't think that works.

Diving Attack: This model Charges an enemy model ignoring LoS, terrain and intervening models. If the Charge fails end this model’s activation.

It doesn't allow you to move Ht for free as it doesn't grant flight, so Misaki will still need to get to melee range to attack.

So there are quite a few contradictory responses in this thread. Here is my interpretation of it.

Diving Attack, Misaki has it and some Nephilims. I believe that she ignores the movement penalty for the terrain, but still has to move around, over, etc. She doesn't have flight like the Nephilims do, so she def. can't ignore the 8'' in the case where her target is up high. She also, can't move thru the wall since she is NOT a spirit. While she can ignore LoS to choose the target she can't move through a building she would have to go around the wall if inside (which would make the charge illegal since it is not in a straight line).

The way I understand it is that she just ignores any penalties, so if it isn't climbable she can climb it, if it is severe terrain, or impassible, she ignores the penalty, but still has to move the distance. She is a ninja, fluff wise I think of crouching tiger hidden dragon type maneuvers. Walks up and over walls, buildings, but can't move through them and can't fly.

Would love clarification on this from an official before Adepticon, because I expect to see quite a bit of Misaki players (and may play her myself).

Edited March 25, 2013 by PeregrineFalco
typo

[dgraz]

She would be placed 10 billion inches up. It doesn't ignore terrain penalties, it ignores terrain...period.

[PeregrineFalcon]

So you're also saying she can move through walls when using Diving Attack?

[Ryu]

She completely ignores terrain. So yes. She just can't end in a wall.

The Ht thing is interesting though. She ignores terrain, but her opponent doesn't right? So the opponent would still be Ht 10 billion. The question then is, when she's done ignoring terrain does she get placed on top of it? I'd say no, because she ignores the terrain and makes the attack in the same action.

The wording is, "This model Charges an enemy model ignoring LoS, terrain and intervening models..." So she doesn't need to see the enemy (ironically, her not seeing the enemy is impossible in this situation, since she is ignoring terrain; save for obscuring effects), but she does still need to be in melee range. Last I checked 10 billion inches > 2 inches. So she would fail.

Edit: Oh no, Malifaux just exploded. So I thought this through a bit more and in the terrain section it says you add the terrain's Ht to your Ht. If Misaki is ignoring terrain, the 10 billion Ht terrain would be Ht 0 to her. So her opponent would be its natural Ht and she would be able to hit it in this situation.

After the attack I have no clue what would happen. At that point she stops ignoring terrain, so I'd be inclined to agree completely with dgraz's statement.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Ryu

[dgraz]

I'd say no, because she ignores the terrain and makes the attack in the same action.

Only if she doesn't have enough movement to reach a spot where she could stand on the terrain. If the model was standing on a piece of terrain and was 11" away (top-down measurement) then she would fail. But if it were only 8" away, she would be placed on top and make her attack as normal.

[Ryu]

Only if she doesn't have enough movement to reach a spot where she could stand on the terrain. If the model was standing on a piece of terrain and was 11" away (top-down measurement) then she would fail. But if it were only 8" away, she would be placed on top and make her attack as normal.

Yes, I edited my last post. However I still think she makes the attack before being moved to wherever. This is hard to accurately show on a tabletop since you can't "delete" all the terrain for 1 action, but RAW that's how it reads, since the charge and the terrain ignoring are the same action - for what it's worth. This is actually more beneficial for the Misaki player because you can do shenanigans like attacking someone on a Ht 6 roof from the shadow of the building, provided they are within your 2" melee range.

[dgraz]

So you're also saying she can move through walls when using Diving Attack?

She ignores terrain. So yes. It may not make sense, but it is one of those quirky situations that can't always be accounted for with everyone's million types of terrain.

Yes, I edited my last post. However I still think she makes the attack before being moved to wherever. This is hard to accurately show on a tabletop since you can't "delete" all the terrain for 1 action, but RAW that's how it reads, since the charge and the terrain ignoring are the same action - for what it's worth. This is actually more beneficial for the Misaki player because you can do shenanigans like attacking someone on a Ht 6 roof from the shadow of the building, provided they are within your 2" melee range.

I'm afraid not. If you go back and read the (2) Charge action it specifically states that you make the move first (the Charge Move), when the move is completed you make the strike (the Charge Strike).

[sssk]

Just to clear up the charge thingy. A charge is "the model moves up to its cg in a straight line towardd the target... at the end of the charge move, if the target is in melee range, the model immediately makes a melee strike...."

(bold is from the rulebook 1.5)

So it's not one action, it's a move (up to the cg) and then a strike, not a move and strike

EDIT: Ninja'd (somewhat appropriately, given the topic) by dgraz

[Ryu]

Ah cool, I overlooked that bit. Thanks for the clarification. Still a dang good ability!

[micahwc]

Yes, and my Mature Nephilim doesn't like it when it's given to non-nephilim. Lilith is not pleased.

[sssk]

Avatar Marcus has it too!!!

... ok, I'll get back in the corner. Come on aMarcus, we know when we're not wanted

[micahwc]

I was under the impression that aMarcus was never wanted.

[Ryu]

While we're at it, aPerdita gets it too. Sorry Marcus, I almost wanted your avatar for about 2.9 seconds there.

[dgraz]

No one does it like Misaki!

[sssk]

No one does it like Misaki!

Hang on folks. We've missed a trick here. Think diving attack? Think Malifaux raptor!

[Joel]

Doesn't the hare ability on Marcus allow him to do the same thing? Except for the LoS bit?

[Ryu]

Hang on folks. We've missed a trick here. Think diving attack? Think Malifaux raptor!

Whoa now, whoa now. Hold your horses! You can have aMarcus and Malifaux Raptor in the same crew for 1-300% more diving attack goodness!!

Marcus' secret weapon?!