Totem

[syanide]

Hi all played my second game last nite and won :-) the guy i was playing has been playing a while and said that my totem adds a mask to my hand is this the case? Also is there a limit on how far my totem can be away from my master to activate together? also is there anything else the totem adds?

Thx

[Ryu]

Which totem and master were you playing? Different totems do different things.

Edit: As for companion, you have to be within 6" of each other to companion activate.

[syanide]

Neverborn and its Lilith and Cherub its the companion

thx that answers one question

[13th Warrior]

The Cherub adds nothing to Lilith's hand, it can just cast one of her spells (as can any Totem).

To be honest I've given up using the Cherub with Lilith, I get much more use from the Primordial Magic - the extra card from Arcane Reservoir works nicely with Lilith's Rush of Magic - draw to 8 cards, discard down to 7, usually enough to give you a couple of decent cards at least.

It's possible that it's this ability your opponent's thinking of.

Cheers

Rob

[i_was_like_you]

And the Primordial magic actually has a decent, dual suited Ca that works well with Lilith's spells (at least transposition and illusionary forest)

[Marcalla]

I'm a big fan of the PM as well, though the cupid can be nice too. Especially if you also bring an Arcane Effigy (also has arcane res). Stat wise the PM and Cupid are nearly identical, the big difference is that the Cupid only has a mask in its casting, but thats good enough for transposition. The cupid does have a nifty ranged attack though which can be quite interesting

Generally speaking I run the PM when I can't run the Arcane Effigy.

[amor sanguinis]

I don't think you can take a totem nd an effigy

[hippodruid]

You can, but only in a Neverborn crew. Aetheric Demands only applies to non-Neverborn leaders.

[i_was_like_you]

You can, but only in a Neverborn crew. Aetheric Demands only applies to non-Neverborn leaders.

Exactly.

[The Godlyness]

Puke snake is a spirit. survives slightly better and can hide slightly better.

[Joel]

only reason I could see myself taking the cherub over the Primordial magic is that its a nephilim - as such it can be sacrificed to summon a lelu/lilitu. Obviously this would mean building a crew around this.

In almost all cases, I prefer the primordial magic

[syanide]

Thx guys for the replys i have bought the pm today so will try him out this week

[Marcalla]

So after pulling out the cards again...

Differences between Cherub and PM:

Movement: the Cherub has 5" walk and 10" charge (not that you really want to be charging) over PM's 4/6. Also the cherub has flight.

Def: Cherub is 2pts higher with the disappear trigger for a possible 8 def.

Wounds: PM has 1 less wound, but it is a spirit so it actually has one more "phantom" wound.

Casting: Cherub is one higher with built in mask, the PM has built in book as well as mask but is one lower. That means transpose on any 9 for the cherub and any 10 for the PM. None of Liliths spells require the book so its wasted there.

Other abilities: The cherub has a 10" ranged bow and a 12" spell that causes losers of w WP duel to either be unable to make strikes for the rest of the turn (with wp >6) or be at -3 CB for WP 6+ not too shabby really. lastly the cherub is a nephalim so can be sacrificed to summon one of the twins if needed.

The PM has Arcane reservoir. nuff said. lol

Final thoughts.

As I mentioned before, in a straight up between the two with no other factors I generally choose the PM over the cupid. The extra card is worth much more in my opinion than the other abilities the cherub brings. However with the addition of the Arcane Effigy to the arsenal I find that the cherub is far superior as totems go for Lilith. It adds a bit of ranged support/damage to a list that is lacking ranged attacks. It is also as survivable if not more. The spirit characteristic of the PM only means it can survive 5 wounds instead of 4 for the cherub, but the cherub has a 6 def and an effective 8 def if you throw a mask. if you add in "love" to that you've got a 11 def if the model can attack you. Now you may want to be channeling Magical extension but not always and the ability to cast love and or use your bow at 10-12 inches is quite nice.

So to sum up. PM if you aren't bringing the arcane effigy, cherub if you do. Its pretty much that simple. I always choose the arcane reservoir as the extra control card is invaluable.

[i_was_like_you]

Marcalla, good run down, stat by stat. I might have to dust off my cupid.

[Marcalla]

Marcalla, good run down, stat by stat. I might have to dust off my cupid.

Thank's. Its easy to overlook the cherub because Arcane Res is such a Good ability. I shelved the cupid for the PM just because of that ability. But when you remove AR from the equation with the Arcane Effigy, the cupid really becomes better than the PM in alot of way's.

[LordZombie]

The old puke worm? I know of a malifaux podcast that just came out today that discusses that very model. Check out Through the Breach!

http://throughthebreach.com/blog/?p=111

[MinimumPhase]

Casting: Cherub is one higher with built in mask, the PM has built in book as well as mask but is one lower. That means transpose on any 9 for the cherub and any 10 for the PM. None of Liliths spells require the book so its wasted there.

Transposition requires two masks, so transpose on a 9 of masks or higher for the cherub and on a 10 of masks or higher for the Primordial Magic.

[Marcalla]

Transposition requires two masks, so transpose on a 9 of masks or higher for the cherub and on a 10 of masks or higher for the Primordial Magic.

Whoops, Good call. Right you are. The point is the same though, you need a 9 for the cherub and a 10 for the PM.

[i_was_like_you]

AR + a cast / channel action on a fast Lilith...Very nice.

Cupid's ranged attack becomes quite a bonus, too.

---------- Post added at 02:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 AM ----------

Oh, and that sacking for a twin, surpise!

[Marcalla]

@i_was_like_you

Agreed, the bonus 2 cast/channel AP's are why its replaced the insidious madness in my core lilith lists. And the cupid being nephalim is awesome. I had been looking at desperate mercs given the neph characteristic via the shaman for summoning Lelu with. But if its later in the game and you need a replacement lelu/lilitu the cherub would make a handy sacrifice. Not to mention you don't need to have the BBS for it.

[13th Warrior]

Casting: Cherub is one higher with built in mask, the PM has built in book as well as mask but is one lower. That means transpose on any 9 for the cherub and any 10 for the PM. None of Liliths spells require the book so its wasted there.

Not quite - they're both Ca5 according to the rulebook 1.5 and the replacement cards.

Not quite sure why the :tomes is in its Ca, as none of the book 1 Masters have a spell that requires it.

For the rest, though, I agree; I think I'll have to look into getting the Arcane Effigy to see how that works

[Marcalla]

@ 13th Warrior

Whoops, so it is. I was looking at the wrong spot on the card.