150.00 to spend

[mcmourning san]

Hey all! I'm looking into buying a new crew and would like some advice on what may fit my play style and what to buy. I have 150.00 set aside to make my purchase so hopefully it will be enough to buy key component models as well. A little about my play style I like to get into the thick of things and start wreaking havoc. I don't mind a bit of strategy but for the most part I'd rather not spend a whole bunch of time calculating precisely every single step with a magnifying glass so in a sense I'd also like a master and crew that is forgiving, competitive, strong, aggressive and adaptable for the local tournaments that are fixed master. So far I have thought Lilith, Misaki and Viktoria's all meet the cut, but am very open to suggestions as well as models to buy to complement the master of choice.

[Ryu]

Viktorias definitely seem to fit your bill. They're aggressive, very competitive (have won multiple large tournaments in the past), and relatively forgiving with Another One? + Ronin and now Vanessa coming out.

[mcmourning san]

Hadouken!! Haha I love ken n ryu on street fighter. So what are the staple models people consider a must have if you play viks and how about their avatar form?

[Jewomie]

I would say that of the three masters you suggested... i would have named them off as well.

I play a lot of Lilith. She has been one of my favorite masters since i started three or so years ago. She's fast, she's a melee monster, and her alt scuplt is really awesome! She is so flexable that she really doesn't care what crew you take her with. I usually hire other nephillem and play a bit of a "fluffy" list, but i have used a bunch of other neverborn and had great luck there as well. Her weapon is one of the strongest in the game damage wise, she has a lovely defense and a full 12 wounds. She is really tough to take down for most things. Plus, armed with black blood, your opponent will think twice about attacking her in melee, and with wicked, once you have them locked in melee, they will have extra trouble getting out. put simply... once you go toe to toe with her, someone is going to die.

The Viktorias are the reason i have lost almost all of the last 25 games (give or take) They are pretty similar to Lilith with the exception that while Lilith is capable of doing some things outside of Melee, the viks can't stand to be away from the fray. Most (most) viks players do their best to make them hit hard and fast and start the game off with some bloody mess all over the terrain. They are another master than doesn't so much care who she is hiring, so you can take her and build a crew to suit your strategies and schemes. Sure they like to bring along a Ronin so you can summon a replacement Vik on the chance that one dies. but outside of that, they are pretty independant. Their downside is their low(er) defense. it isn't terrible, but since you have two, they suffer a tad in the wounds catagory. each one has 7 which is the lowest of any master. The trick is to make sure you activate them last and cheat high to make sure you kill their target.

Misaki i know less about. From what i can tell she is a pretty nice inbetween of the first two masters. She is a bit of a solo model, though Yamazoku really makes her shine. She isn't as tough as Lilith on the defense, but she is better off than the viktorias. Damage wise, she is as good (if not better) than the other two as she can really focus in on a single target and follow it around the board. She can also steal soul stones which is crazy awesome to me.

From a gameplay perspective i think all three have what you're looking for so it could be more of an asthetics things on your part. Twins, Vampires, or ninjas. =]

Viktoria and Lilith have been around for a good while and have a lot of options for hiring so while you don't need to go overboard with them, you still have a decent pool to start. Misaki, not so much as she is new. However, she does share a few models with Viktoria so either one would be a good expansion if you want to start a new master. =]

I hope this helped!!! My fiance (Rebeccajo on the forums) is a huge Viktoria fan and has pretty much played her exclusively for about a year and a half, so if you have any questions let her know. i'm sure she'd love to help you. She also just picked up Misaki's box so there could be more details coming soon.

also if you want to read further, the pull my finger wiki is very useful. Sadly i don't have a link to it.

Happy gaming!!! let me know who you pick.

[Ryu]

I'm not a Vik's expert (I play mostly TT and Freikorps currently) but here's what I've seen across the table:

Ronin - having at least 1 is generally a must.

Vanessa - Not released yet, but everyone is excited about her (she can only be used by Viks and counts as another teleporting point for the sisters).

Freikorps Librarian - Just sick with the Viks. She can heal 3 times a turn and it affects both Viks, giving you up to 6 healing flips a turn if everything goes right (passes casts, both viks are wounded). Additionally she can give them +2 Df if one is within 3" of her.

Student of Conflict - For fast

There's, of course, many more options but I almost always see at least 2 from that list in a Viks crew.

Edit: Like Jewomie said above Misaki also shares a fair number of models with the Viks (Taelor, Ronin, Desperate Mercs, Hans). I absolutely love Misaki but in my personal experience I tend to think the Viks are more forgiving. Misaki is definitely aggressive and I love stealing soulstones and shadowing people (0 action that gives you an optional free move when your target moves, no range - just need LoS). Misaki also has one of the sickest instant kill triggers in the game, since it still does normal damage even if they discard two cards or two soulstones.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Ryu

[Jewomie]

I'm not a Vik's expert (I play mostly TT and Freikorps currently) but here's what I've seen across the table:

Ronin - having at least 1 is generally a must.

Vanessa - Not released yet, but everyone is excited about her (she can only be used by Viks and counts as another teleporting point for the sisters).

Freikorps Librarian - Just sick with the Viks. She can heal 3 times a turn and it affects both Viks, giving you up to 6 healing flips a turn if everything goes right (passes casts, both viks are wounded). Additionally she can give them +2 Df if one is within 3" of her.

Student of Conflict - For fast

There's, of course, many more options but I almost always see at least 2 from that list in a Viks crew.

haha, i can second this. Ronin are always on the table with Rebecca, and she has Vanessa on pre-order. Sue, Taylor, Desperate mercs, and the Ten Thunders Brothers have all been part of some recent lists of hers.

[Boshea]

I had a list done for the Vik's in outcasts on a budget, but pretty sure it needs updates.

[mcmourning san]

I had a friend tell me the people on wyrd forums were super helpful and you all have been so thank you for that! As for buys I have read that recently at gencon Lilith was 2nd place and I have also read that viks have won multiple things in the past so that was a toss up for me. I know not a lot is know. About Misaki but after reading her she does seem like she has some tricks and is aggressive too. Question, viks and Lilith are both book one masters and the general consensus in my meta is that power creep has left book 1 in the dust do any of you feel the same?

[micahwc]

Lilith does fine with anything and doesn't really have much synergy with nephilim (compared to the levels of synergy other master's have with their fluffy crews).

My recomendation for purchases based off of what I have used with her for since 2011 would be: (in order from first purchase to last)

Lilith with her box set.

a blister of young

2 sets of twins

a second mature neph

a second set of young

For a grow list you would add 2 desperate mercs, a black blood shaman, and nekima if you really wanted her.

You could also add the vomit worm for an extra card every turn.

[CannonFodder]

If I were you I would either go misaki or Viki, just because they can share a lot of models. So if/when expand you are able to expand you can mix and match minions.

Lilith is then odd person of you choices

[micahwc]

There is noticable power creep but I feel that both the Viks and Lilith can still keep up. They were both contenders for the best book 1 masters on most lists people made. Lilith has fast, ridiculous defense and offense, the ability to make cover, the ability to ignore LOS, the ability to swing her sword through walls, and the ability to move 18 inches in one activation.

All of her abilities except for 2 work with any neverborn minion. So even though she is a book 1 master, you can field her with a crew from later books very easily. The twins in book 2 are still really good.

[MinimumPhase]

I play a lot of Lilith. She has been one of my favorite masters since i started three or so years ago. She's fast, she's a melee monster, and her alt scuplt is really awesome! She is so flexable that she really doesn't care what crew you take her with. I usually hire other nephillem and play a bit of a "fluffy" list, but i have used a bunch of other neverborn and had great luck there as well. Her weapon is one of the strongest in the game damage wise, she has a lovely defense and a full 12 wounds. She is really tough to take down for most things. Plus, armed with black blood, your opponent will think twice about attacking her in melee, and with wicked, once you have them locked in melee, they will have extra trouble getting out. put simply... once you go toe to toe with her, someone is going to die.

As a quick note, Lilith has 10 wounds, not 12. One other consideration is that Lilith has a starting soulstone cache of 4 compared to the Viks' starting cache of 0. I am not sure about Misaki's starting cache.

Also, Lilith's Defense of 8 with a defensive trigger that gives enemies that miss her a -2 Cb on subsequent attacks is something which I find very useful. In Lilith I find a mobile master with good defense, good offense, and a few movement tricks to support her crew.

[Rifter]

As a quick note, Lilith has 10 wounds, not 12. One other consideration is that Lilith has a starting soulstone cache of 4 compared to the Viks' starting cache of 0. I am not sure about Misaki's starting cache.

Misaki has a starting cache of 4. (Wounds 10)

Misaki is one of my initial buys for my first crew (heavy 10T). But, while I LOVE the sculps, I hate how fragile they are.

[mcmourning san]

I actually currently own

Lilith box

Pair of youngs

Pair of matures

Double pair of twins

Nekima

Shaman

Cherub

And

Viks

Pack of ronin

Von Schill

Convict gunslinger

I just didn't know if it was worth it to keep Lilith crew and finish off with tuco, primordial magic, waldgeist and mercs or sell her stuffs and buy vik things and Misaki. I guess I should admit I haven't played a bunch of games with nephs, but was just hoping they don't have as many horrible match ups compared with what viks may have or Misaki.

[micahwc]

Unless you are playing against the Oretegas all the time I don't think you really NEED Tuco. Waldgeists have no more synergy with her than they do with anyone else unless you get her avatar. They work fine with her but for six points I think there are usually better options. Primoridial magic is good, but so are 2 (3?) soul stones in your cache. I don't intentionally play with grow lists but use it when it comes up during the game, so I have no experience with the desperate mercs.

The only games which are really difficult for the nephilim crew are those which require a large model count. Most of your models cost 6 or 7 points. It's easy to get out numbered. However, you have access to what is arguably one of the best 3 point significant models in the game.

With what you already have, I think I would say to go ahead and get Misaki. You have enouth nephilim for any size of game you want to play. You already have a good core of outcasts. Get Misaki and add another master.

[Jewomie]

As a quick note, Lilith has 10 wounds, not 12.

Oops, thank you. i was typing too fast i guess. XD That's what i get for not proof reading... lol

I actually currently own

Lilith box

Pair of youngs

Pair of matures

Double pair of twins

Nekima

Shaman

Cherub

And

Viks

Pack of ronin

Von Schill

Convict gunslinger

I just didn't know if it was worth it to keep Lilith crew and finish off with tuco, primordial magic, waldgeist and mercs or sell her stuffs and buy vik things and Misaki. I guess I should admit I haven't played a bunch of games with nephs, but was just hoping they don't have as many horrible match ups compared with what viks may have or Misaki.

well, i typically run a list made from what you have there. I find that she is one of the few masters where you can (sort of) prebuild lists based on schemes. For example i have lists in mind at both 25 and 35ss matches for many of the strategies. of course they can be swaped around as needed based on who i'm up against. almost always you'll find the shaman and or Tuco in a list of mine. i don't own (and have never used) Nekima. and i have the twins, but i find the tots, young and mature nephillem to be good enough to get me through most games so i rarely take them.

It also looks like you have a pretty great Viktoria list there. especially if that's viktoria's box set cause then you have Taylor (who i find myself facing in almost every single game) bishop and johan.. not so much.

anyway, based on what you're looking for, i don't think you can go wrong with any of the three. =]

[Boshea]

I actually currently own

Lilith box

Pair of youngs

Pair of matures

Double pair of twins

Nekima

Shaman

Cherub

And

Viks

Pack of ronin

Von Schill

Convict gunslinger

I just didn't know if it was worth it to keep Lilith crew and finish off with tuco, primordial magic, waldgeist and mercs or sell her stuffs and buy vik things and Misaki. I guess I should admit I haven't played a bunch of games with nephs, but was just hoping they don't have as many horrible match ups compared with what viks may have or Misaki.

With that much already into Lilltih, I'd grab Tuco, primordial magic, and mercs just to round everything out. Desperate Mercs are just good to own in general.

Your Vik selection makes expanding a little rough. Already owning the Viktorias and Schill makes picking up the starters less of a deal. Granted the only universally good models in each starter is the Freikorp Librarian, and Taelor. Jhohan is good to own since he's often the poor man's Taelor, and I have hopes for him with Vanessa and Joss. Bishop is weird and very very situational. The rest of the Freikorp are all just solid models that can each fill their rolls very well.

For models to add though beyond Freikorp and Vik starter these will probably get the most use. Vanessa (when release), Strongarm, Oiran, 10-T Brothers, and Sue. Most of these will also work for Misaki, with non-Freikorp getting around the mercenary rule. Hans also may have some new life with Misaki by using the Torakage swap to get around his movement problems. Expanding Misaki from the Viks isn't hard either since 10T has a fairly low model pool. With out getting into other 10-T starter boxes, Archers and Yamaziko are your main things to add.

[Jewomie]

Unless you are playing against the Oretegas all the time I don't think you really NEED Tuco. Waldgeists have no more synergy with her than they do with anyone else unless you get her avatar.

I guess i can't outright disagree with you on this as Tuco was the last thing i picked up for my Lilith crew, but i can say he holds up for his SS cost without the Ortegas. I haven't used him against any family models yet, but i find his range, use of blast templates, ability to buff his terrifying, and his use of blast markers on damage all too be great for only 7 ss. Also, while i haven't used it yet, his ability to take away someone's faction could be really dangerous to any crew that uses companion chains. and there are a lot of them out there. So while he isn't a MUST HAVE, i would say he's a high recomendation.

[micahwc]

I guess i can't outright disagree with you on this as Tuco was the last thing i picked up for my Lilith crew, but i can say he holds up for his SS cost without the Ortegas.

Same here. I have him. If I had an opponent to play against I would probably use him. He is also pretty mobile if I remember correctly.

[mcmourning san]

Can Lilith beat the Viktoria's? and how does her crew do against high armor targets and/or spirits?

[i_was_like_you]

No one recommended McCabe? He thrives on either harrying the opponents, giving them slow or paralyzed, or being in the thick of it, and going from df 5 up to a df 8 for having four or more enemy models engaged with him. His walk / charge is 8/12. With Bearskin armor, the options of taking the relics of Strangemetal Shirt for armor +1, and Invigorating Bridle for a (0) to heal his mount, after splitting wds between himself and his horse make him very difficult to kill, which is very forgiving.

I'm not saying that Viks, Lilith, or Misaki are bad choices, but if we're going to talk sharing models, Misaki and McCabe will be able to share them too. I've been running him as 10T and using her Torakage almost exclusively. Great for grabbing objectives while either Misaki or McCabe pulls all the aggro for the crew. His walk 8, twice, lets him cover 16", but Misaki's walk 5 with Reckless for three gets her 15" even without shadowing a model.

[Inquisitor Wall]

Just to add another voice to the chorus, I would go viks, Von Schill, pack of ronin, convict gun slinger, student of conflict, and preorder Vanessa. I have been playing the viks for a couple of years and I would argue that they have kept up with the power creep very well. They are also super fun to play (and that's the most important part for me).

[Ryu]

No one recommended McCabe?

The OP asked specifically about Lilith, Misaki, or the Viks, thus few other recommendations. McCabe seems very intriguing to me though, can't wait to try him out soon.

[Jewomie]

Lilith can beat the viks, but depending on the schemes and starts it *could* be a tough fight. Toe to toe in a fight it will more than likely boil down to who flips initiative or who has the most soul stones.

as for Lilith's crew in general, i find their damage output in general is high enough that they don't worry too much about armor and spirits.

[i_was_like_you]

Hey all! I'm looking into buying a new crew and would like some advice on what may fit my play style and what to buy. I have 150.00 set aside to make my purchase so hopefully it will be enough to buy key component models as well. A little about my play style I like to get into the thick of things and start wreaking havoc. I don't mind a bit of strategy but for the most part I'd rather not spend a whole bunch of time calculating precisely every single step with a magnifying glass so in a sense I'd also like a master and crew that is forgiving, competitive, strong, aggressive and adaptable for the local tournaments that are fixed master. So far I have thought Lilith, Misaki and Viktoria's all meet the cut, but am very open to suggestions as well as models to buy to complement the master of choice.

The OP asked specifically about Lilith, Misaki, or the Viks, thus few other recommendations. McCabe seems very intriguing to me though, can't wait to try him out soon.

He's been a blast. I thought Lilith, the Viks, and Misaki were fun, but McCabe is just crazy. Taking his master specific scheme Bring 'Em Back Alive, once per tourney, is fairly easy to accomplish against most crews support models, even if it's only McCabe handing out the slow or paralyzed. It's even more fun when either McCabe's crew can also dish it out, or when the opponent is summoning models, that, since they're slow, you then kill.

Plenty off topic, but with as crazy good as these 10T masters are, what the heck kinds of improvements / alternate abilities could they possibly introduce should these guys ever gain avatars?