mcmourning san Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Hey, thanks for stopping by my post and taking time to read this. First things first I recently made a Lilith purchase and have the following models: -Lilith -Nekima -Cherub -Primordial Magic -x2 Lilitu -x2 Lelu -Tuco -x3 Terror tots -x2 Young nephilim -x2 Mature Nephilim -Black blood shaman My first question is what other models do I need to purchase to have all available competitive options available to her and secondly is she as competitive as say zoraida or pandora? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnegan Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 The one big thing with Lilith, in my opinion, is Transposition. In short, it allows you to put any model you want anywhere you want as long as you have the card to cast it and plan in advance, usually through a Terror Tot sprinting into position for the switch. That said, I would advise you to look at any model you belive you would benefit from being able to drop at specific places. My personal favourite is Coppelius for auto Paralyse, Poison and free Alps. Note this won't work with Immune to Influence models, unless you remove it first with the Insidious Madness. You also have nearly all the models you'd want for a (somehwat cheesy) grow list. Add a Desperate Merc or two to get the early blood/corpse counters for your Tots, Nekima and the Shaman and you can build a fast crew that can at a moment's notice (with the right card) turn a lot more bashy. As for competitive, in my opinion, Zoroida is likely to be the most competitive of the three but I would put Lilith above Pandora. Still, I'll leave the final word on that to those who know more than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicte Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 All three of the mentioned Neverborn masters are competitive. Lilith is the easiest of the three to learn, just because her method of play is more straightforward than Pandora (and than Zoraida, frankly) as well as her model selection being "easier" than Zoraida. Though Lilith can benefit like all Neverborn masters from grabbing some of the standard "power" minions, like Stitched Together or Arcane Effigy, you can get a lot of mileage out of Tots, Tuco, and the Twins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmourning san Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yes, I thought about buying a pack of stichy's because of the cover they provide for my vampire bats.What are your feelings on waldgeist and the different effigies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yes, I thought about buying a pack of stichy's because of the cover they provide for my vampire bats.What are your feelings on waldgeist and the different effigies? Brutal Effigy is great with Lilith- giving her access to a healing flip is just fantastic. Brutal himself has 3 attacks with a built in critical once locked in melee, can be transpositioned and has object 1...a favourite tactic of mine is to transposition an activated model into b-b with the effigy. Primordial magic, for me, is a must. Even masters like Rasputina will be jealous of you drawing 8 cards+ any Lilith gets with triggers. Its high cast also means it can cast liliths spells easily. This crew works brilliantly imo: Lilith Cache 7 Collodi 4 Marionettes Brutal Effigy Primordial Magic (attached to Collodi). Lilith has 7 stones as collodi wont really need them. Collodi needs to cast "filled with stones" on the BE then himself the following turn. If one of the marionettes is then also filled with stones and 'cuts its strings' lilith can transposition it with an important enemy model, locking it in combat. Collodi can make his marionettes and the brutal fast...they will make short work of almost anything. Add a widow weaver in at 35ss and you have an awesome crew. Brutal is your anti-spirit weapon, and collodi and effigy can take out constructs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmourning san Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I had not ever thought of using collodi with lilith I always figured he was more of zoraida's toy, but it does sound interesting. I really appreciate the responses so far thank you for the input. are there any tricks with Lilith that are particularly useful? I had read about using sorrows and arcane effigy somewhere around here for multiple earthquakes, has anyone had luck with this tactic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Why would you not attach the primordial magic to lilith so you can transposition lilith in and out of places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmourning san Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Why would you not attach the primordial magic to lilith so you can transposition lilith in and out of places. I think it is because you cannot attach totems when you take the effigy so in order to bring them both he had to attach the magic to the henchman collodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 The no attaching a totem when you take an effigy only applies to non neverborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Why would you not attach the primordial magic to lilith so you can transposition lilith in and out of places. If you were to attach it to collodi it becomes ridiculously potent vs constructs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicte Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Really you can't go wrong with just Lilith on her own as long as you don't run her into a totally suicidal situation. She's a super solo that can handle herself well alone, and using transposition on Lilith to drop her, unactivated, into a group of enemy models that will all get to meet the business end of Whirlwind is just brutal. You can also link Sorrows to Lilith (though this will cause wounds, Brutal can help heal these) and use them as targets to transposition enemy models to Lilith. When Lilith takes a walk action, all of the Sorrows snap back into base to base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcmourning san Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 How do Lilith players in the community usually deal with high armor targets, spirits, immune to influence, and shooty crews? Assuming I had access to all neverborn models which would I use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 How do Lilith players in the community usually deal with high armor targets, spirits, immune to influence, and shooty crews? Assuming I had access to all neverborn models which would I use? Shooty you can alpha strike, spirits= brutal effigy, constructs = collodi with attached primordial magic, because dissassemble when you are drawing 8 cards a turn is horiffic and just slap ItI targets hard in the face! See me first post, it actually deasl with some of these... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i_was_like_you Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Primordial Magic isn't Unique, so if you wanted, you could hire two of them: One attached to Lilith, the other attached to Collodi. It, like Essence of Power (usually for the Arcanists) and Grave Spirit (usually for Ressers) make for some interesting situations when you hire more than one of them (up to three of each in Brawl containing two Masters and a Henchman). Of course, those two have the advantage of Link, letting 'em be dragged around for free, like the Sorrows example, but I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 How do Lilith players in the community usually deal with high armor targets, spirits, immune to influence, and shooty crews? Assuming I had access to all neverborn models which would I use? BAsic tactics- Focus on your objectives. If thsoe involve havign to kill then.. High Armour -Hit them lots. Spirits - Hit them lots Immune to influence - Hit them Shooty - Transpositon then hit them. Neverborn have quite good damage profiles, so whilst armour slows them down, they often can still kill just on volume of attacks. Likewise against spirits, you are going to use volume. Most of the neevrborn models have a greater threat range than people have gun range, so if they can shoot you, you can hit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 If you feel you really, really need to sidestep ItI, then you can either: not use Wp effects - transpostion your own stuff around and build a crew that does this well. Bring in things like inisidious madness to remove ItI from a target. to bypass armour, neverborn's best tactic is simply to hit them for lots of little damage. collodi and his puppets are one of the best examples of this - armour is irrelevent if you are only doing 1dg anyway. Spirits used to be more of a problem than they are. With the ability of any neverborn crew to pick 2 effigy dolls (brutal and mysterious work well here with lilith), and the new illuminated coming in, magical attacks are not really an issue anymore. Don't miss things on cards either - Mr.Graves has some magical ranged damage for example - one that he can get positive flips on easily... as for shooty - earthquake, transpostion, illusionary forest, the diving charge ability of some nephilim and lilith's ability to see through terrain - not to mention overall speed - can really nullify the shooting capabilities of any crew. Not really a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 How do Lilith players in the community usually deal with high armor targets, spirits, immune to influence, and shooty crews? Assuming I had access to all neverborn models which would I use? High armor: Hit them over and again. Her crew can put out a lot of attacks. Spirits: Same as armor. Immune to influence: Doesn't really make a difference against Lilith. Shooty: Illusionary forest, transposition, master of malifaux, and diving attack. Hit and run warfare is what the traditional nephilim excel at. Illusionary forest to block LOS, transpose your models around, and diving attack from behind cover. I have thought a lot about using Taelor in place of a mature nephilim. She has almost the same threat range, and is much more dangerous to constructs and spirits. With transposition, you could mitigate her movement disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malicte Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Pretty much it boils down to either 1. Just kill them. 2. Transposition and then kill them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnternalVoid Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I will throw out that I do use Taelor over a mature nephilim often with Lilith. That 3" threat range with magical weapon and ignoring armor covers alot of gaps in the issues Lilith might have trouble cutting down herself. Also while slower the Brutal Effigy does not really have a problem keeping up with her. With Hard to Wound and Hard to Kill she is not the easiest to drop and having an option to put a few wounds back on her from rogue attacks *rather than something concentrated like a Vik being dropped on her*. Not to mention a back up melee option right near her that also has a magical weapon. If I need her to go faster I have Transposition as an option as well as Earthquake *from either Lilith or the Primordial magic*. I think Lilith is competitive but part of what makes her so is the threat of the Neverborn as a whole. Being able to say "Neverborn" as your faction and then having your opponent have to guess which master you bring is nice. She can also be rather good in several strategies so it will not always be clear which master you might favor, you can really make them cover their bases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th Warrior Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 You don't need to get overly complicated with Lilith, just hit them hard and fast, then hit them again. A very simple crew that I'm still having lots of fun with (at 35ss) is: Lilith Primordial Magic 3 x Terror Tots 2 x Mature Nephilim Cache 8 It's wonderfully fast, ignores some or all terrain penalties, and hits like a train, and with the PM you can usually guarantee at least a couple of decent cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.