Competitive Guild 2013

[Odin1981]

I agree with everything dgraz said. I know most prefer to run guardian with santiago but I would only do that in say a lady j list. I have also for a long time left the two brothers to cover a flank of a battlefield and have never felt they were lacking (santi + fransico).

I believe one of the main reasons some people can't make him work is they try to put him up on the frontline and in all honesty that is why they don't get their money's worth with him. He cannot survive hard hitting models or focused master pressure (but in all reality only a handful off minions can survive a ss user attacking them). What he is great at is a support/countercharge model (often off a obey followed by flurry) that kills in those 4 attackis damn near anything that isn't 9+ wounds and armor 2 or better. He is a ever present threat to take out any model that engages santiago in one activation barring masters. And more than likely will take out at least one 7-8 point model if you know when to commit him.

I agree with dgraz that in my eyes perdita is in the top tier of guild masters. She has outside of one specific matchup never let me down. The versatility she provides in doing just about any strategy plus her kill power to me is what makes her so good. Even to this day with all the book 4 masters added to existing ones she still has the best defensive stats in the game cast 7, wp 7 with i2i, and the ever present def 8. She might not have alot of wounds but if you place her well on turn 1-2 it should not matter much unless you are drawn against a 20+" melee threat master. One thing also that doesn't get mentioned much on the boards is how she is a great model especially for guild to get objectives with. It really pains me to see everyone talk about her as always quickdraw (0) and shoot all game long. She is easily our most versatile master.

I remember in another thread awhile ago I would gladly trade fast for nimble and instinctual for her if their was ever a update for her in a mark 2 malifaux setting. Her fast most often to me is always a walk anyways and to have the ability to use any two of here (0)'s as they all are great would just make me jump for joy (spellbreaker + whatever else every turn yes please , ) . The closest master I could compare her too would be zoraida. In that she just has a whole slew off options to use/do and she has really in my eyes in my humble opinion only like 2 50/50 matchups and 2 40/60 ones. Granted I have yet to take her up against the recent books masters but pre book 4 out of close to 25 masters too only have 4 coinflip or slightly bad matchups is not bad at all.

[mythicFOX]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, and keep them coming.

I'll stress I think all of the guild masters have a place competitvely. I only went with the Hoff first as that's what I happened to have laying around. I plan to add a lot of models as the year goes on, and things like Austringers will follow fairly quickly, but I can't have everything ready for the next tourney (first weekend in Feb) so I'm having to prioritise.

I'm really keen to hear Perdita vs McCabbe thoughts for my next master, given my model pool.

Onto more games from the weekend:

Round Two

vs Rasputina in shared DtE

Destroy the Evidence is difficult for a crew that can't split up, so if I could have picked one master to face here it was 'Tina. I won't dwell on this game overly as I didn't so much win this game as my opponent lost it with a couple of key play errors. It ended 6-2 to me, with me only missing out on one of the evidence counters for the full eight and the Arcanists taking the two inevitable points for Sabotage.

Round Three

vs Viktorias in shared Claim Jump

Seeing the Viks with Taelor and three Ronin is a scary sight over the table from you when armour is your best defence. I took unannounced Kill Protégé (Taelor) and Stake a Claim on some terrain with an edge just inside the claim zone. My opponent took two unannounced schemes.

He deployed for a two pronged assault on the claim, Taelor the Vicks and a Ronin approaching from 10 O'clock and Sue and the remaining two Ronin approaching from 12 O'clock. I positioned on turn one so that the Hoff-star was facing the Vicks and blocking their line of attack to the softer Wardens and a Wastrel who were looking to hold up his other group.

My opponent seemed heitant to engage and I managed to harpoon an activated Tealor into the Hoff-starr for the first kill of the game. My Wastrel took secret passages to a hidden place on the second floor of a building less than eight inches from my Stake a Claim.

The Vicks and Ronin went into my Hoff-Starr a little nervously over the next couple of tunrns. With a little better combat management than my opponent and some luck I managed to wipe the Vicks and that Ronin in exchange for my Guardian and five wounds each on Hoff and the Peackeeper.

I put my Hoffatar into the remaining two Ronin and Sue on the objective, taking one of the Ronin down to one wound in the process. My opponent took the next turns initiative and could see myself losing Hoff.

Fortunately my opponent blundered and activated Sue first. Sue failed to make the impact his sisters would have and I activated Hoff and the Peacekeeper to finish his Ronin. This just left my Wastrel to pop up behind Sue and stab him in the back. Job done 7-1 to me.

I felt my wound management was off in this game. I think I'm passing too many wounds down the chain from the Peacekeeper. Should only do this where I'm sure I can them off? Hoff players how do you manage wounds in a simple: Peacekeeper > Hoffman > Guardian chain?

[Jonas Albrecht]

I felt my wound management was off in this game. I think I'm passing too many wounds down the chain from the Peacekeeper. Should only do this where I'm sure I can them off? Hoff players how do you manage wounds in a simple: Peacekeeper > Hoffman > Guardian chain?

I usually go Peacekeeper > Mobile Toolkit > C. Hoffman, and let the Guardian go protect Santiago. As far as wound management, I'm not shy about dumping them onto C. Hoffman, and spending soulstones to mitigate them. With the Toolkit around, you get access to a healing flip, twice if you really need it. However, if I were to do a PK > Hoff > Guardian chain, I'd kick em down to C. Hoffman and swipe the Guardian's healing.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jonas Albrecht

[mythicFOX]

Thanks Jonas,

Does the Peacekeeper > Mobile Toolkit > C. Hoffman approach not leave Hoffman very vulnerable? It's not hard to feed wounds into the system via the MTK.

I'm interested in how you handle wounds you're not expecting to be able to prevent/heal. My thought is to leave them as high up the system as you can without them stacking up on the Hoff. how do you guys handle it?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Thanks Jonas,

Does the Peacekeeper > Mobile Toolkit > C. Hoffman approach not leave Hoffman very vulnerable? It's not hard to feed wounds into the system via the MTK.

Not especially. I tend to use the PK as mobile terrain, and very little survives when I smash into it. Plus Dampening is so damn awesome.

I'm interested in how you handle wounds you're not expecting to be able to prevent/heal. My thought is to leave them as high up the system as you can without them stacking up on the Hoff. how do you guys handle it?

Here's my take on it. When I invest in a Peacekeeper in a Hoffman crew it is, to an extent, more valuable than Hoffman early in the game. At least, enough so that I want to keep it around by risking wounds on Hoffman. Given this, and the high armor of the Peacekeeper usually ensuring only one or two wounds, I'm willing to load a few on Hoff.

[FearLord]

In theory there is no need to take any damage until you need to, but in practice because of the healing abilities of the Guardian and the Hoff I try and spread a few minor hits their way so that I can deal with it as it comes. I try and share it so no link in the chain is especially vulnerable to a big hit...

I haven't tried a whole lot without the Guardian protecting Hoffman, but the one game I did, we had quite a lot of tall terrain and he was sniped out... This may have prejudiced me against it, but he's pretty vulnerable with his low def...

[LupusFerreus]

Urge to buy Hoffman...rising...

[Jonas Albrecht]

Urge to buy Hoffman...rising...

He is the most fun I have had with a Malifaux master... outside that one dream I had about Perdita.

[LupusFerreus]

He is the most fun I have had with a Malifaux master... outside that one dream I had about Perdita.

My current "dream" and competitive Master is in fact Perdita. What makes Hoffman so fun for you and why should people taking him for competitive play?

[mythicFOX]

Here's my take on it. When I invest in a Peacekeeper in a Hoffman crew it is, to an extent, more valuable than Hoffman early in the game. At least, enough so that I want to keep it around by risking wounds on Hoffman. Given this, and the high armor of the Peacekeeper usually ensuring only one or two wounds, I'm willing to load a few on Hoff.

I get loading wounds you expect to heal onto Hoff, as FearLord points out. However wounds that are going to sit there are surely better on the Peacekeeper?

Each model in the protect chain can be considered to have a Wd stat the sum of it's wounds and that of each model below it in the chain. So in a PK > Hoff chain the Peacekeeper can only be killed if it is dealt enough damage to kill it AND Hoff, where the Hoff can be killed when he is dealt enough damage to kill him alone.

So by passing wounds down the chain to Hoffman you just make him more vulnerable without making the PK less vulnerable, unless I'm missing something?

[Letux]

I always keep the guardian at the bottom personally. Protecting Santana is to risky vsa good player because they will just have an easy kill on Hoffman imo.

On a side note I really like Death Marshals for the new recon since they are a little harder to kill, don't have to get tired up in melee and can reliably kill things in other quarters.

[Gruesome]

He is the most fun I have had with a Malifaux master... outside that one dream I had about Perdita.

I cannot personally speak to the "tournament competitiveness" of Hoffman. (Not really a driver for me to pick what I like anyway)

But I have to say, after a recent "tour" of the Guild where I played all the masters a few times to learn more about them, that Hoffman was the most fun I had.

As soon as I get over "new model smell" with Yan Lo, I intend to play with Hoffman some more because it was just so fun.

[Jonas Albrecht]

My current "dream" and competitive Master is in fact Perdita. What makes Hoffman so fun for you and why should people taking him for competitive play?

I really like how all of his abilities come together to make a really interesting playstyle. Assimilate gives you access to a giant list of Talents and Spells that Hoffman will find useful. Drawn to Metal means that all of his AP is spent on getting stuff done instead of getting around the map. Maintain Machines means that all of your construct suck is gone. Plus he's a master that gets to chose if he wants Instinctual or Fast every turn.

He's competitive because he's fast, versatile, hits like a truck, and your crew selection tends to put up a wall of ItI.

---------- Post added at 10:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 AM ----------

I get loading wounds you expect to heal onto Hoff, as FearLord points out. However wounds that are going to sit there are surely better on the Peacekeeper?

I totally get what you are trying to say, and must admit I didn't really think of it in those terms. You are correct, keeping the wounds "high" is a better method.

[LupusFerreus]

I really like how all of his abilities come together to make a really interesting playstyle. Assimilate gives you access to a giant list of Talents and Spells that Hoffman will find useful. Drawn to Metal means that all of his AP is spent on getting stuff done instead of getting around the map. Maintain Machines means that all of your construct suck is gone. Plus he's a master that gets to chose if he wants Instinctual or Fast every turn.

He's competitive because he's fast, versatile, hits like a truck, and your crew selection tends to put up a wall of ItI.

Okay, now I definitely have to get him.

[AgentRock]

The Guild are like an abusive husband to me. They keep telling me they've changed. I keep coming back, only to get punched in the face again.

Maybe these Wastrel people won't be so bad. In any case, while using their secret passages, at least I can hum "Here we go, a Wastrelling" to my opponent, which would amuse me and likely not them in any way.

[FearLord]

I totally get what you are trying to say, and must admit I didn't really think of it in those terms. You are correct, keeping the wounds "high" is a better method.

I think the only thing to worry about is people that can "break" the chain some how - i.e. dispel type effects, but otherwise I'd try and keep the wounds as high as possible, while making the most of Hoffman getting healing from other models healing...

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

Okay, now I definitely have to get him.

He was my first master and I always have fun playing him - he may not be the best master for Guild, but I certainly find him more interesting than some (I don't know why, but I always find Perdita kind of dull to play...)

[mythicFOX]

So I got some time in with the lovely Ms Ortega last night. *heart*

Amazed by her vital statistics, all lovely 7's and 8's.

On a serious note I've decided to get her crew together for the Vapnartak tournament a week tomorrow. There are better options competitively but I don't have the time left to learn McCabbe or gather enough models for Criid. So my to paint list (to add to the models in post one) looks like;

• Witchling
  
• Witchling
  
• Wastrel (2nd)
  
• Perdita
  
• Enslaved Neph
  

To this list I might squeeze in another model. Anyone have thoughts on Nino vs Santiago in this situation?

[Jonas Albrecht]

Santiago, definitely. You need someone who can take some punishment in that crew. Also, a Watcher is a good match for Perds.

[LupusFerreus]

+1 on Santiago. He's a beast, especially at 4 wounds. Be careful with him though if you're not taking Guardian/Francisco.

[dgraz]

Agree. Santiago rarely lets me down. Whereas Nino is effective maybe 50% if I'm lucky.

My startup list for Perdita is; Enslaved Neph, Santiago, Francisco.............the rest is based on the strat/scheme/terrain. But those models make a solid core to build from.

Agree with Jonas that a Watcher might be a good investment. Forewarned combined with Hero's Gamble is great and the ability to remove a cover bonus is great (since Perdita is not paired).....and since I2I doesn't make you immune to Terror or Pitiful....the Watcher can remove it.

[13th Warrior]

I generally take a base of Perdita, Enslaved Nephilim, Santiago, Nino and Watcher. Admittedly that's 19ss, so it doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room, but generally I'll add to that from a pool of Executioner, Peacekeeper, Exorcist or another Watcher, or some combination of those.

Also, I like to keep Perdita's cache as high as possible - she may have great stats, but once you get past her defence, she only has 8 wounds. I don't usually feel comfortable fielding her with fewer than 6ss, and generally like to take 8 if possible.

Cheers

Rob

[Odin1981]

Agree. Santiago rarely lets me down. Whereas Nino is effective maybe 50% if I'm lucky.

My startup list for Perdita is; Enslaved Neph, Santiago, Francisco.............the rest is based on the strat/scheme/terrain. But those models make a solid core to build from.

Agree with Jonas that a Watcher might be a good investment. Forewarned combined with Hero's Gamble is great and the ability to remove a cover bonus is great (since Perdita is not paired).....and since I2I doesn't make you immune to Terror or Pitiful....the Watcher can remove it.

+1 to what dgraz said that is my core as well for dita. Outside of 5-7 masters I am comfortable playing 4ss cache but I don't play her as a strict frontline shooter. If you come up against someone who has one of the 5-7 I would consider dropping the totem for 6ss for me those masters are: lilith, viks, misaki, pandora, colette, and dreamer with a hm to Leveticus (depends on crew build and if I have played against the opponent before).

I started playing her with 2 stalkers but dropped one when watchers came out but really it is just a matter of preferance with what you need after you have locked down 25ss or so of your list in what you feel will round your list out the best.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Odin1981

[mythicFOX]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. Looks like I'll be spending some time getting Santana painted this week. I've already got Watchers in my case for the Hoffman crew.

I assume the recommendation for Watchers, other than for their objective grabbing goodness is to get around Perdita's lack of Hunter?

Also how do people find her personal scheme? Easy, difficult, good or bad against anyone specific?

[FearLord]

Also for the card manipulation...

I can't really speak to her personal scheme, as I've never tried it... In theory, it should be do-able (depending on the composition of your opponent's crew), but I don't think I've ever actually cast Execute...

[13th Warrior]

I assume the recommendation for Watchers, other than for their objective grabbing goodness is to get around Perdita's lack of Hunter?

Also useful to look at the top 2 cards just before Perdita uses Hero's Gamble

Also how do people find her personal scheme? Easy, difficult, good or bad against anyone specific?

I've tried it about four times. Once I managed to kill two models using Execute... :-(

In theory it should be good against high model count / low wound opponents. In practice, for me anyway, there's already such a demand for :masks in the crew that finding three spare ones is often far too much to ask, especially when her Cb is dropped to 4 as a result - you'll often find yourself using a high card and / or a soulstone to get it off. I just found it waaay too tough to achieve so I gave up!

Cheers

Rob