tadaka Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Curious what others think of guild hounds. To me the lack of soul stones to pool hirts there usefulness a lot. Any one have much luck with them as 10t? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I guess the question is "What do you gain by running McCabe as Ten Thunders that is better than running him as Guild?" He seems like the least Ten Thunder-y of the Book 4 Masters. I wish they'd made his "Baying of the Hounds" gain some sort of bonus based on the number of Guild Hounds nearby. It would have been really nice and thematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Well if your playing the game per the rules i picked ten thunders and i thought he gave me the best option to win at a specific goal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Heh. Well, if the reason he was going to be the best option included Hounds, then possibly he wasn't the best option after all. I would agree with your original premise that Guild Hounds are not worth the full 3 SS each. Out of interest, do you use Luna with McCabe in most of your games? I sort of wish she'd got some bonus to cast Baying of the Hounds as well. (Shut up, I like the image of a baying pack of hounds hunting people down.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I leave her out most of the time. I think i would use her more if dogs were better but shes pritty meh imho. Looks cool tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Hmm, fair enough. I really like the notion of a super-fast pack of dogs (with Luna) backed up by McCabe, tying up enemies in combat while McCabe fires his net gun into the melee with impunity. However, I haven't actually tried it (my Relic Hunters haven't arrived yet) so I've no idea if it's actually effective - I just think it's a cool theme. Given that five dogs plus Luna is effectively only 15 SS (playing as Guild, anyway) it's also super cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I guess the question is "What do you gain by running McCabe as Ten Thunders that is better than running him as Guild?" He seems like the least Ten Thunder-y of the Book 4 Masters. I get sense, looking at what's available to both factions, that McCabe's lists look the same no matter if he's running as Guild or Ten Thunders. As for the question: No, if I'm trying to run him as Ten Thunders, I'm probably looking to try out what he can do with Torakage or the Archers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I get sense, looking at what's available to both factions, that McCabe's lists look the same no matter if he's running as Guild or Ten Thunders. What would you include in a "standard" McCabe list? There are some pretty weird Ten Thunders lists possible with him, but I'm guessing from what you've said that you don't feel he gets much benefit from any of the extra TT or Guild models that would be available exclusively as one or the other? Even something simple like throwing in a Watcher seems like it would make quite a difference for some strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 What would you include in a "standard" McCabe list? There are some pretty weird Ten Thunders lists possible with him, but I'm guessing from what you've said that you don't feel he gets much benefit from any of the extra TT or Guild models that would be available exclusively as one or the other? Even something simple like throwing in a Watcher seems like it would make quite a difference for some strategies. With Guardsmen and Black Sheep, he's got a large, effective pool to draw from. As such, I don't seem him drawing heavily from the ranks of the Ten Thunders, with a few notable exceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 There are a few nice models that being 10 thunders opens up access to. I am not a guild player so I may not know about some thing that does some of this. Archers, Is there a guild model he can take that can slow models for his stun spell? Tora, any guild models that can make cover? Showgirls, ya you can get them for 5 stones as guild but hey we were just talking about how half a stone makes or breaks dogs. And they bring lure lets face it that spell is amazing. Ten thunders brothers, Companion options outside of guard options. All the ten thunder masters look to lose a lot going outside of there faction. You have to look a little harder but there are very nice reasons to field them all as 10t. They lose some things and gain others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 There are a few nice models that being 10 thunders opens up access to. I am not a guild player so I may not know about some thing that does some of this. Archers, Is there a guild model he can take that can slow models for his stun spell? Tora, any guild models that can make cover? The answer to both is Sidir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Cool good to know. Tho i got to say a 0 action for cover that can last 2 turns is a hell of a lot better then a 1 ap for the same thing that lasts one turn. I dont personaly use him much hes 2 damn slow for my taste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 The answer to both is Sidir. True but at his cost he really lacks an additional AP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Peacekeepers and Hunters both have ranged attacks that automatically inflict Slow. Not that they're particularly good choices for McCabe, just putting it out there. Being Guild also gets you access to all the standard great-value Guild stuff like Witchlings, Watchers, and Nino Ortega (who can murder the hell out of TT Archers any day of the week and twice on Sundays). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 i agree nino is a hell of a lot more killy but archers have amazing flexibility to there shots. there is a reason they got used to win uk gt this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I just thought I'd point out that running McCabe as Guild has its own set of exclusive advantages. Definitely not disputing that Archers are totally solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I have been wondering how good a crew of McCabe with Toshiro plus a Punk Zombie and an Ashigaru would be. McCabe and Toshiro solve the movement concerns around the Punk Zombie and with a decent Crow, Tosh can summon more Zombies/Skeletons once the killing starts. Unfortunately its not something I will be checking out until March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I just thought I'd point out that running McCabe as Guild has its own set of exclusive advantages. Definitely not disputing that Archers are totally solid. No doubt. I was playing every faction and have gotten rid of a ton of crews and am now focused on 10t. All the masters feal out of the box they are missing so much when they leave there parent factions. But as I play them more and more I find they just play different and as a whole the 10t is a very powerfull faction. The masters all play so differently that they bring some thing for any mission. Honestly the only master I feel is a little lacking is mei feng and thats only because I think Misaki is just a better option any time I would take mei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I've not played with Misaki yet, but I think the biggest reason to play Mei over Misaki is the use of the Rail Golem, Willie and the Metal Gamin. Misaki isn't lacking in big hitters, but I prefer the Rail golem to any of them. Willie is great area denial and area effect damage, which is what you need against some crews. The Metal Gamin can help protect key resources for missions. But if you aren't plannign on using one of those 3, then you may do better with Misaki. Meis only other advantage is the Steam cloud, which Torkagae can also do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 True but at his cost he really lacks an additional AP Yeah. Ranged expert would really make him sing. As of now, he's merely adequate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) The lact of a 3rd action point plagues a lot of the 10t minions. Some of it pull it off and are great like tora others are well meh. Its what keeps Mr Graves from being a great model. As is he is ok but pushed out of pritty much any list i would take him in. I think thats the main reason that jacob plays best with next to nothing of his NB crew models other then the girls. Edited December 21, 2012 by tadaka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I love the fluffy aspect of taking Luna and the Hounds, but I agree with others that the hounds aren't worth the 3ss each. If I play McCabe as Guild then I like to take them (just for the fluff/fun) but I'm pretty focused on the 10T side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 I am curious what people are looking for from Hounds. I always find that 9ss spent on hounds has paid off and been well worth it. Their walk of 6 and on-the-trail makes them ideal for grabbing objectives. In addition, their ability to bury counters has served me well in a number of games. Yes, with Wastrels coming on the scene I can see Hounds dropping in their usefulness, but not tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Don't get me wrong, I like them and as Guild I use them often. They're good for the moving thing and burying counters is situationally useful. My only beef with them is that they can really only do that movement thing or be a speed bump for 1 turn. They can't really do anything else if you need them in a pinch. In order to do Objectives, they need to stay together so you might as well call it a 6ss model that suffers the same problem as the Cerberus, take a few wounds and be half as effective - except one hound isn't even half as effective as two. They don't do any real damage, I guess it could be that I'm spoiled by Guild where most model's Weak damage is 2-3 (including the fact that most have Crit Strike built in)....if I'm paying 6ss for a model, I want it to do more than 2-3 points of damage....which is realistically all 2 hounds is going to put out unless your lucky enough to pull a moderate on one of their attacks. They have penalties when they're alone....insignificant, can only move and strike. The trigger is kinda useless - the only models that really carry counters are the masters, and attacking them with the hounds is just handing them over to be killed. Compare this to the 3ss Night Terror. Suffers no penalties from being alone. One point less Moderate and Severe damage with one less CB but has higher Wp and Ca.....can de-buff any model....has better movement thanks to Flight and Spirit and gets the extra move like the Hound with Flock Together and another extra move with 'Attracted to Noise'.....and works as a MUCH better speed bump - same Df, one less Wd, but Spirit and HTK. I just think that there is a lot that could have been done with them but wasn't. They're attack/hunting dogs....they could have had some kind of 'Run Through' style attack, or some kind of harassment effect if multiple dogs are together...like a 'Slow' or a de-buff. I would be happy if the Hounds stayed as they were but increased their damage potential. So many times I've activated 3 (or more) hounds, attacked a less expensive model (compared to the 9ss for 3 hounds), only did a few wounds, then had at least 2 hounds wiped out. Any of these things could stay in the 'multiple hound' theme. I don't know, call it 'Flanking' this model does +1 damage if the enemy is engaged by other friendly puppies. Edited December 21, 2012 by dgraz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted December 21, 2012 Report Share Posted December 21, 2012 10 thunders don't have access to night terrors, so that's the first point. McCabe doesn't have access to watchers either, so I think they're the only 3SS option, and there's not much out there with the same speed (not to mention working with Luna). If you have a guild McCabe, then hounds are only 2.5SS, and with that discount I think they compare decently to the 3SS options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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