Collette help

[LupusUmbra]

So, I am have a blast playing with Collette, but am running in to a problem, I cant seem to win. Still having a blast, but would like some suggestions on what i can do to turn this around.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Gonna need some specifics.

[CircusBear]

In general - never forget your schemes and strategies!

But as Jonas Albrecht says can you be a bit more specific, how do you normaly play? which masters/factions are you normally playing against? What persuaded you to choose the showgirls in the first place? (I ask this as there are a few different ways to play these girls and I've found that the reasons different people choose collette can differentiate their play style).

Which models do you have available to you?

[Mr. Goggles]

So, I am have a blast playing with Collette, but am running in to a problem, I cant seem to win. Still having a blast, but would like some suggestions on what i can do to turn this around.

My problem with Colette at first was paying to much attention to her shenannigans and not enough to my strategies/schemes. Focus on those and you will win, no matter what crew your opponent takes.

...And everyone else's comments are important as well. What is your exact problem, are you struggling with a specific master/crew, what models do you have, etc.

[LupusUmbra]

Well, I like the shenanigans, and i think that's whats doing me in. As for what I have, that crew box, added some doves, Avatar and Angelica "in crew", out of crew in faction, I have Rasputina and crew, Kaeris and crew, Essence of Power, and a Dec. Acolyte. Just got Mei Feng crew, haven't used. For outcasts, i have the Viktorias 3 Ronin, Hons, Misaki (original), Bishop, Taelor, and Johan.

I find my self playing VonSchill a lot, how ever, people play about everything around here.

Sorry the OP was so vague. Thanks

[Kadeton]

In my experience, the thing that takes Colette from "decent" to "ridiculously overpowered omg I can't believe it" is the Coryphee Duet. It makes everything so easy, mainly because pretty much the only thing that can match it for mobility is Collodi.

I hate to recommend it because it's such a crutch, but if all you want to do is win some games it's the easiest first step.

[CircusBear]

In my experience, the thing that takes Colette from "decent" to "ridiculously overpowered omg I can't believe it" is the Coryphee Duet. It makes everything so easy, mainly because pretty much the only thing that can match it for mobility is Collodi.

I hate to recommend it because it's such a crutch, but if all you want to do is win some games it's the easiest first step.

Bad Kadeton, go sit in a corner and think about what you are suggesting *grin*

I'm yet to get the avatar, so can't offer much help with that, but in terms of a Colette none coryphee crew, I can offer some suggestions (as its my prefered crew build!). The main mistake is getting too focused on the movement shennanigans, much like all things in malifaux, there is a time and place for them!

One of the most powerful things I have found within the the none coryphee crew is the ability of you models to hand out paralyse. The seduction spell that the performers have is as far as I'm concerned very powerful, its effectively a lure to get your opponent out of position/isolated and possibly paralysed if you can pull them close enough! Don't forget also that Cassandra can copy this spell as is a (1) spell. Combine this with the ability for any of your showgirls to get the ability to use soulstones (inherent for Cassy, and through a mannequin for performer) and a +ve if that soulstone is a mechanical dove, and you have the chance to get the resist well out of reach of most models (I've managed to get Von shill to follow showgirls around the table like a dribbling idiot *grin*).

This is not only useful for getting your opponent away from objectives/areas you want/need to be in, but is also useful for isolating models from any protection that was offered by other members of their crew for you to then gang up on with the movement tricks of colletes crew.

[Kadeton]

Bad Kadeton, go sit in a corner and think about what you are suggesting *grin*

Sorry! :-$

Anyway, this might be a good chance to delve more into Performer-based Colette tactics. Some starting points for the discussion:

1) Do you find that Angelica is essential to a Performer-heavy crew? What does she bring other than Morale support?

2) What movement shenanigans does the crew bring to the table? Is it all based entirely on Colette's ability to swap positions?

3) Does Cassandra suffer much from being unable to use Dance Partner to get into position?

4) Are there any key support (non-Showgirl) models you would recommend to back up the crew?

5) What Schemes work best with a Performer crew?

6) Can you tell that I'm bored at work?

[Odin1981]

In reply to kadeton:

1. Why would she? Oiran are now in stores same cost and better + give lure. She only brings a eldrad like 40k ability to redeploy one model before game starts.

2. No idea I fail hard at non coryphee lists.

3. I feel she takes a serious hit without the duet around no minus giving combat 7 paired sword user is hard and I don't ever want to spend a ss on a spell to give a model a minus (or two in this case).

4. I would gander a guess at steampunk guy from outcast faction Johan maybe kaeris but with here in a non duet list she (colette) is really the best ss generator for any type of arcanist type play imho.

5. I would guess frame for murder, sabatage, extermination type ones.

6. Maybe?

I honestly think ebonstar said it best about the performers in his showgirl tactica on his malifaux site (the club he is in) that we often expect too much out of performers due to having big elite pieces that are great at quite a bit. I have often found them most useful when I am not proactively using them towards my opponents crew but using them to do things that I would rather not waste ap on the big 3 doing. Usually if you push on the crew with the duet or cassie you will often find the performers generally left alone to do stuff unimpeded.

Granted I don't think they are bad but they generally will fail if you try to compare them to our high standard of expectations when going up against our other elite options. I know I often bring them (1 pair) mainly for companion showgirl that the mannequin brings. But they are a good jack of all trades (barring damage), master of none type model. I have appreciated their trade they bring in against ressers most of all irresistable is a great trait to have on a model when in particular that faction lacks in wp. A lot of ap has been wasted on them at failed strikes in my time using them against that faction but generally speaking anything that is a heavy hitter will be made to pass that test and then they are often not long for the world.

[Kadeton]

Odin, it sounds like we're at about the same point with our Showgirls crews - I tend not to think much of the Performers in their own right, simply because they aren't necessary for the central powerhouse of Colette, Cassandra and Coryphees. However, there seems to be a "new breed" of Colette crews based around Angelica and Performers that I keep hearing about, and I want to know more from those players about how they make those crews work.

On the face of it, running without the Duet makes it look like the crew should be much worse at killing (no super-mobile debuffing death machine, no forward jump beacon for Cass or Colette) and worse at objectives (can't send a nigh-invulnerable significant model running 27+" across the board in a turn) - so basically, I want to know what the crew actually is good at.

[Barnaberible]

tips from me -

1.use your first turn to discard your cards to get soulstones, you probably wont need cards in the first turn

2.remember your +1 flip when using a soulstone, handy for dissapearig act,

3.take johan and use him to smash anything that you dont mannequin replace,

4.most masters are great targets for magicians duels from doves,

5. keep your mannequins in anchor positions to use to switch with colette if you need to, remember mannequins are Armour 3 AND Object 2 so effectively armour 5, also use them if you need to companion your showgirls, particularily duet turn 1.

6. Cassies breath fire is an awesome spell, bounce the blasts onto masters etc, remeber cassie can also cast other performers spells, including all of colettes as she has use soulstone

7. If there is anything real nasty on the board target it with dissapearing act, keep the second tome and soulstone flipping 2 for the 3rd, it comes off quite alot, if it dosent switch and feed it to Johan or drop it into something nasty.

8. Get a duet and learn how to use it

9. dont run out of soulstones!!!

As for schemes I find sabotage, power ritual, bodyguard are quite easy

my normal 35 crew build would be cassie, performer, duet, Johan swapping duet or cassie out for anything specific if needed depending on strategy, kaeris fits quite well but she does eat stones quickly, orian look nice but havnt tried them. I think swapping duet and cassie out for kaeris, rail golem and extra performer might work quite well

[Adran]

You've still not actually given us any information about your problem.

Firstly, the game is about VPs. You plans should start with working out how you are going to get them, and deny them to your opponent. Shenanigans that don't help you win, whilst fun, are ineffectual.

Colette has got the tools to handle pretty much everything, but knowing when to use them is vital. Her crew, more than any other in this game rlies on resource management. Just because pretty much every one can use soulstones doesn't mean they should or you will run out before you really need them (My normal problem). Remember that the duet has a healing flip, so unless you think it is likely to be killed in one shot, let them hit you and heal the damage rather than spendign the stone.

Use your doves wisely. They are mobile soulstones, but they also help give you activation control and their ability to magicians dual is great. Try and only sacrifice ones that have already actiavted if you can, and personally I would try and have as many doves out as you can.

Soulstone manipulation can be really useful, ditching poor cards to become soulstone, but don't become reliant on it. You might find you need the mid range cards more than you need the soulstones.

Disapearing act. This is a pretty useful spell even if you don't go for the maniquin replacement. Personally I find the replacement odds are pretty low, and I'm instead happy to remove a model before its activated, anmd if I managed to get a mask, its cost me no soulstones. Others will tell you to try for the 3 tome trigger when ever possible. Neither is completely right but don't over focus on the one thing.

Mobility

The Crew has plenty of mobility tricks, but something has to move there first. And, unless you are really careful somethign wil get left behind as you move other stuff. This might allow your opponent to focus on only part oy your crew at a time, which is good for them, but bad for you.

Hope this helps somewhat, but not knowing what you are struggling with makes it tricky

[CircusBear]

I'll try to organise my thoughts on the non coryphee crews and write something detailed when I get the chance and am not doing a crazy work schedule before the christmas hols!!

The main general point that has been made is not having a coryphee reduces movement and (to some extent) hitting power, I find I need to think more subtly when playing Collette without the duet, which is why I enjoy it!

@Kadeton, if you wanna be bored by my rambling we could catch up for a game sometime *grin*

[Sybarite]

tips from me -

1.use your first turn to discard your cards to get soulstones, you probably wont need cards in the first turn

2.remember your +1 flip when using a soulstone, handy for dissapearig act,

3.take johan and use him to smash anything that you dont mannequin replace,

4.most masters are great targets for magicians duels from doves,

5. keep your mannequins in anchor positions to use to switch with colette if you need to, remember mannequins are Armour 3 AND Object 2 so effectively armour 5, also use them if you need to companion your showgirls, particularily duet turn 1.

6. Cassies breath fire is an awesome spell, bounce the blasts onto masters etc, remeber cassie can also cast other performers spells, including all of colettes as she has use soulstone

7. If there is anything real nasty on the board target it with dissapearing act, keep the second tome and soulstone flipping 2 for the 3rd, it comes off quite alot, if it dosent switch and feed it to Johan or drop it into something nasty.

8. Get a duet and learn how to use it

9. dont run out of soulstones!!!

As for schemes I find sabotage, power ritual, bodyguard are quite easy

my normal 35 crew build would be cassie, performer, duet, Johan swapping duet or cassie out for anything specific if needed depending on strategy, kaeris fits quite well but she does eat stones quickly, orian look nice but havnt tried them. I think swapping duet and cassie out for kaeris, rail golem and extra performer might work quite well

Don't you find that a ss cache of 4 is a little low for Colette? i play the standard crew with 7ss and i don't feel like i can fit any more models in.

[Odin1981]

Depends on how many doves you start with Sybarite. I play the stock 35ss crew but I start with 2 doves and 5 cache and it really isn't all bad. If you count the doves as "situational" soul stones anyway I have only one less then the 1 dove build (they would in theory have "8") but I do not need to zero make a dove outside of turn 1 to have full doves on the board and can have a +1 cache total at the end of turn 1 (make 1 each of her activations make 3rd dove on reactivate) so at the beggining of turn two I have 9 ss's out to play with accordingly in addition to 8-9 activations. Also depending on how the opponent sets up I can delay the power trio's activations or do a quick companion chain early in the turn to take out potentially 2-3 minions from the top of two depending on my opponents minion board position.

Also one thing worth of note is the more you play with her and the girls the more familiar you know when/what is worth spending stones on. Also one thing of note with the duet I would highly advise learning positioning with them. The first 3 turns or so you want to begin the turn with them out of los and threat range of the enemy masters/henchmen but within threat range of models you care to threaten. That way you don't suffer from the "whoops" moments of losing a turn 2 or 3 initiative and having them in range of a ss user for a quick down 14 point activation at the top of the turn.

Also one reason I am a big proponent of the duet is the hypnotic movements trigger it all but assures that unless I am attacking a use ss model I rarely if ever feel compelled to spend a ss on offense (generally one is spent for the biggest "mannequin" target but sans that I hate with a passion having to spend ss's on offensive duel totals) if you can keep a steady stream of the majority of your ss cache for defensive and/or resist flips it is absolutely amazing the attrition games you can play with the girls in addition to pretty much any turn outside of turn one you can grab 6 vp's very reliably in just one turn with about any strategy (be it 1/2 points strategy and 2 schemes or full strategy and one scheme).

[Sybarite]

Odin: Well yes i know, but Barnaberible talked about having a standard crew with Colette, Cassie, Duet, Performer and Johan at 35 ss and that leaves Colette with a 4ss pool without doves. But i suppose that could work if you're careful and build up some ss the first turns like you suggested with the 30 ss crew.

Yes hypnotic movements is a fantastic trigger i still get carried away with ss usage sometimes and that's what i've got to practice at. Hypnotic movements really helps in that department.

[Barnaberible]

Don't you find that a ss cache of 4 is a little low for Colette? i play the standard crew with 7ss and i don't feel like i can fit any more models in.

I havnt had any problems with only a 4 cache, unless you are using Colette very offensively early on. I tend to discard cards in the first turn to build the cache and summon a dove leaving me with 5-6 and a dove for turn 2.

I also dont tend to use my doves as mobile SS, I find that most things can take care of themselves and use doves for magicians duel / harassing masters.

I do like to have Johan in just as a bit of hitting power, and for 5 SS he is great but with Colette I dont want to drop any showgirls so make do with the lower cache.

for a 30 SS or lower game I find Colette is a struggle to play with as you will realistically have to lose either cassie or the duet

[Odin1981]

You can play duet and cassie both at 30. However you will more than likely outactivated. Also it really at the least takes 2 turns to get up and running (summoning doves). If you play both at 30 it generally behooves you to position for vp turn 1. Turn 2 grab as much as you can and then on turn 3 start taking out models you don't want to deal with.

25ss I think you basically have to choose if you want one or the other but you can play both at 30ss fine. The only thing that hurts is at 30ss you have to accept that the first 1/3 of the game you aren't operating at full force and while you set up for mid game (turns 3-4) you have to be aware of models that you don't want to deal with and avoid them rather than in a 35ss list being able to take them out in turn 1 or 2.

[ttsgosadow]

Little tip: I recently played against Colodi, and he has a spell that can insta-gib Coryphee Duet (its called disassemble or something like that). Basicly you loose the Coryphee unless you discard two cards. At that time I had none remaining, as I had Colette baking soulstones. That was quite the cold shower on turn 1

Just didnt know Colodi could do that.

[Barnaberible]

I think Sonnia can also do it

[OTP]

yeah its a trigger on her ranged weapon

[Sybarite]

It's a trigger on both of her weapons actually

[wardsey]

hi, i have seen people mention mannequins are object 2 aswell as armor 3 however this isnt stated on my stat cards for mannequins could sumone tell me where i could find where this is stated? thanks in advance for any information on the matter.

[Usiel]

Object is a characteristic, find it above the stat block, where you'd see construct, undead, etc.