Does Seductive work when channeling Lure?

[spydr261]

The rule for the Rotten Belle's Seductive as it appears on the card says that it gets "+4:masks Ca when casting Lure". Compare that to the text for Lilitu's Dark Beauty which reads: +2:crows Ca when Casting or Channeling Lure.

As you can see, casting is capitalized and in bold on Lilitu and channeling is explicitly mentioned. Seductive is rather vague by comparison. The rule for Channel in the RM says "this model Castsa (1) Spell. There are two possible solutions I can see to this problem:

a) Seductive doesn't work with channel because you are using the Channel action instead of the Cast action

Seductive does work with channel because it involves Casting Lure as part of the Channel action and the mention of Channeling on Lilitu is just for extra clarification.

As a Seamus player I hope it is ( but I just wanted to be sure.

[ArcticPangolin]

Well, I think it would be option a) going by what has been written. Perdita Ortegas Quickdraw ability is from the same era, and it states:

"This model may make a Peacebringer Strike against a model within this weapon's Rg and LoS that has declared a ranged attack, Cast/Channel, or Charge Action before that model flips a Fate Card or moves..."

I would think that the intention was to affect Channeling as well, but maybe they can only Lure so hard before things start to fall off.

[Omenbringer]

A Channel action results in the Casting of the spell (though with a bonus) so I would say that Seductive would buff the casting of a Channeled Lure. Reference for this is the definition of a Channel action on Page 50 of the Rules Manual or page 46 of the new 1.5 edition Malifaux book.

Keep in mind this is a very different interaction (read as nothing alike) than not being able to use Casting Expert/Master, Melee Expert/Master or Ranged Expert/Master to focus or Channel (as those abilities provide specific AP for Named Actions i.e. Cast Actions, Melee Strikes, or Ranged Strikes).

[Q'iq'el]

I think it falls under the difference between "a cast" and "a cast action".

That is to say, because Seductive refers to casting, it covers every kind of Ability or Action which generates "a cast". On the other hand if it specified it affected only "a cast action", then it wouldn't work for channeled spells.

[Omenbringer]

Q'iq'el your elegance of expression is always appreciated.

[Barney]

What is the advantage of channelling Lure vs 2 normal casts?

As it has no damage stat, surely it would be better to attempt 2 casts?

[Adran]

The only one I can think of is if you are trying to lure someone like Zoraida (or Lucius or the lawyer I think), who add negative flips to attacks against them.

Or if you are falling back, so on negative flips.

But normally you're right, 2 attempts is better than 1.

[Barney]

Ah, good call. Never thought of that

[Kadeton]

Or if you're within a witchling's "screw you, spellcasters!" aura. Which I know I've done, personally, without realising that I wouldn't get the Seductive bonus. Oh well.

[Omenbringer]

Or if you're within a witchling's "screw you, spellcasters!" aura. Which I know I've done, personally, without realising that I wouldn't get the Seductive bonus. Oh well.

You should get the Seductive bonus for channeling Lure because you are still casting it.

reference

Seductive: +4:masks when casting Lure. Page 141 of the 1.5 edition Malifaux book.

(2) Channel: This model Casts a (1) Spell. The casting recieves to both its Casting and any Damage flips. Page 46 of the 1.5 edition Malifaux book.

*No emphasis has been added to the above

As Q'iq'el points out the lower case casting in the wording of Seductive makes the difference.

[Kadeton]

You should get the Seductive bonus for channeling Lure because you are still casting it.

As Q'iq'el points out the lower case casting in the wording of Seductive makes the difference.

Good. That's the way I've always played it anyway.