Dracomax Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I just want to point out that just because you aren't the protagonist of someone else's story, doesn't mean that you aren't tthe protagonist of your own. And more, starting off as a minor, bit part character doesn't mean you can't rise to xhake the world on it's foundations--or at least part of it. Just look at two examples from the fluff--Misaki and Hamelin. Neither were all that important when introduced. Neither had more than hints before they started to grow therough their own stories. Now, Misaki is in charge of what seems like the biggest single disruption of the status quo yet, and Hamelin has become the walking incarnation of plague. Just saying, having larger than life CHaracters doesn't mean that you can't rise to the top. It does usually mean that people want to kill them in game, though. TL;DR: Everyone is the hero/main actor in their own story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) There are other subordinates to Sonnia and Lady J, but only one of each of the ladies. They're the bosses. By the same token there are plenty of rebellion cells but since everything of an consequence is done only by Luke, Leia, Han, etc players often feel like playing the little fish is... well, pointless. Few players want to play second stringers or redshirts. To go along with the Star Wars analogy...Luke in ANH was the subordinate of pretty much any pre-existing member of the rebel alliance, and he happened to be able to fly a fighter. That didn't stop him from doing something important and becoming a big fish. There's a lot of room for any player to become a big fish in a Malifaux RPG - as big of a fish as any of the existing characters, though they technically won't rank as highly (think Nekima vs Lilith). You'll have to be creative to keep within the cannon sometimes, but within that, you're only bounded by your imagination. Rasputina was just a citizen, then she killed another citizen and became a murderer, then December took an interest in her and she became a powerful fugitive, then the Arcanists took her under their wing and she became one of them. Edited September 8, 2012 by decker_cky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Van Stoker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triblayne Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) @ 011121. Um, I don't know what role playing games you've played, but if you want to start the game as the big bosses, what the hell is there to aspire to? There are so many stories to tell, you're kind of limiting yourself otherwise. The best campaigns I've played in or run started out with the player characters being nobodys and they rose to become heroes through the stories that got told. Edited September 8, 2012 by Triblayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 @triblayne: who are you talking to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagan Wolfe Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I think 011121... Last few posts seem to be in response to his comment about playing the big guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triblayne Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 @triblayne: who are you talking to? Oops. Yeah, sorry. That was is response to 011121. Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 np... just thought maybe you thought I was saying Von Schill, when I meant the Stoker guy from the new book. Thats the sort of thing I would enjoy. Just a smart dude, that maybe has a gun and/or sword, that is trying to figure out stuff in the world of Malifaux that occasionally interacts with "his betters". I don't want to spoil anything about him though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Okay, I know I'm an old geezer who likes to completely type out his words so people can understand and all.....yes it takes me five minutes to compose it a text message....but what the hell is TL;DR: ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Okay, I know I'm an old geezer who likes to completely type out his words so people can understand and all.....yes it takes me five minutes to compose it a text message....but what the hell is TL;DR: ??? Too long, didn't read. Generally is followed by a quick synopsis of what was posted above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Too long, didn't read. Generally is followed by a quick synopsis of what was posted above. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forar Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Honestly, depending on how the game mechanics/character creation are done, I don't see why it has to even be up for debate. If one could make, say, Perdita within the system, then you could play as Perdita. You could also presumably start a character at a much lower level of advancement (be it perks points, an actual tangible level, experience allotment, whatever). Basically, make Perdita a few years earlier; not quite as experienced or necessarily packing any special gear she might have, but with a natural talent for gunfighting. Over numerous adventures/quests/campaigns/years/whatevers she'd naturally progress from lowly "Minion" tier status to "Henchman" tier. Maybe she finds or personalizes her Pistol. Learns a few tricks of the trade from more experienced warriors, makes up a few things on her own. Which then makes me think of the Palladium RPGs Nightbane and Heroes Unlimited, both of which had a wide array of abilities, powers, and options for character creation. Hell, the latter is particularly noteworthy. Within it, you could totally make Superman if you wanted to. Some players and groups enjoyed having their own adventures with familiar characters and ability/power sets, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Maybe they're younger, or inexperienced with table top RPGs. Everyone has to start somewhere, and it can take loads of work and pressure off the shoulders of both the players and the game master alike if a great deal of the legwork is already done by others. Basically what I'm saying is that, in my opinion, there's no reason both options couldn't exist in the same system, at least assuming that it will be possible for player characters to attain a power level on par with that of the Masters within the skirmish game and its fiction. And now to dream of designing Avatars... Edit: and now a Net History lesson: when confronted with lengthy posts, some forumers would type TL;DR (as noted: Too Long; Didn't Read), so in response some people who typed out those massive missives began to add a summary at the end to give people at least an idea of what they had to say if they didn't have the time or inclination to parse the entire thing. Edited September 8, 2012 by Forar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Which then makes me think of the Palladium RPGs Nightbane and Heroes Unlimited, both of which had a wide array of abilities, powers, and options for character creation. Way back when I played Marvel Superheroes, we had 2 campaigns going. One was a bunch of average heroes.....like Captain America, Wolverine, and Spider-man level; and the other with demi-gods that traveled the cosmos...like more powerful than Thor, the Hulk, and the Silver Surfer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 I don't get the concern about the "major characters". Going on the Star Wars example, there were numerous novels written about secondary characters. They were still important. Still had a part to play. Just because you're not the main protagonist doesn't make you a red shirt. There's a reason you can get an academy award for 'best supporting actor/actress'. I love Perdita. But I don't want to be her. I want to run my own individual. Personally I agree with you but I can tell you for a fact every single time I tried to run a star wars game it was an issue, until I decided to break with the established continuity. Also not that many people read or gave a damn about the books. Shadowrun was an entirely different thing. It was a full setting not just a single story line the way Malifaux or Star Wars are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 Shadowrun was an entirely different thing. It was a full setting not just a single story line the way Malifaux or Star Wars are. I don't believe that there is only one story line in Malifaux. There are several stories going on....the Governor & Lucius, the Arcanist revolution, the Neverborn quest to rid their world of the invaders, the Avartar arc, etc. Also, Malifaux as a world is very young, not much has been fleshed out. There are only some limited mentions of places outside the city itself, but it is implied that there are plenty of outlying areas. The stories that are going are still pretty fluid. I think there is an awful lot of latitude that an aspiring FM can take. How integral players are to any story line is going to be up to the FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
necroon Posted September 8, 2012 Report Share Posted September 8, 2012 (edited) Deadlands would be a good place to start. It has some rules for cards instead of dice rolls for certain things and takes place in a western/horror setting. It has a foothold in Gurps and Wildlands. Was thinking about using it to run a Malifaux RPG a few weeks ago. Edited September 9, 2012 by necroon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 One was a bunch of average heroes.....like Captain America... urge to kill GROWING!!!! Cap is the MAN! He and spidey are the best heroes EVAAAAR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 urge to kill GROWING!!!! Cap is the MAN! He and spidey are the best heroes EVAAAAR! I think he means average in power level. Cap is awesome but in the Marvel universe is his abilities are still only classified as peak human. He is not bench pressing cars or shooting laser beams out his eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rancor709 Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 I think we all know better than to insult super heroes on the internet that is flame war that burns brighter than the human torch. I am very much looking forward to this and hoping for rules light, mainly because just getting to roleplay in a malifaux setting will be awesome, if I need the gritty combat component that's what good old Malifaux is for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triblayne Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 It was a full setting not just a single story line the way Malifaux or Star Wars are. I do not understand this sentence. The Star Wars setting, as a place to tell stories, is vast. The plot lines in the films are one tiny aspect of a universe that has been expanding for 35 years and encompasses thousands of years of history. If you're playing a role playing game in the Star Wars universe, where your imagination is the limit, and only use the films' exact time period as reference, you're selling the whole experience short. That's like saying you're going to play a D&D campaign in the Forgotten Realms setting, but you're only going to follow the story of one book. And while Malifaux is significantly younger than Star Wars, the same principle applies. The stories are there to introduce you to a much bigger world, where some background information and your creativity can take the stories you create to any place or in any direction you want. For me, that's kind of the point of role playing games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 urge to kill GROWING!!!! Cap is the MAN! He and spidey are the best heroes EVAAAAR! Settle down there buddy. Don't start the crusades against me because I don't believe in your god.....er...hero. Anyway, Nilus has it. I was speaking in terms of power level. Everyone understands that Cap and Spidey are are on the low end of the power scale....it is only their sheer awesomeness that allows them to stand toe-to-toe with beings of massive power levels. I mean...Cap even picked up Mjolnir...his awesomeness goes without saying. I'm a little old-school; 80's, I don't know much of what's going on anymore. But for the record, Cap and Spidey are my two favorite Marvel heroes...in that order, followed by Colossus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliver Chocobo Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 urge to kill GROWING!!!! Cap is the MAN! He and spidey are the best heroes EVAAAAR! But which spiderman? Superhero power levels weird, some would say superman is on the higher end of the power scale (middle of the road IMHO) and John Constantine was down at bottom end of power scale, but guess which one defeted the Enchantress, wasn't superman We might need to make superhero thread Back on topic, totem? Would be able start with one or would you have you work for one or bit of both ---------- Post added at 10:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 AM ---------- urge to kill GROWING!!!! Cap is the MAN! He and spidey are the best heroes EVAAAAR! But which spiderman? Superhero power levels weird, some would say superman is on the higher end of the power scale (middle of the road IMHO) and John Constantine was down at bottom end of power scale, but guess which one defeted the Enchantress, wasn't superman We might need to make superhero thread Back on topic, totem? Would be able start with one or would you have you work for one or bit of both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 I think he means average in power level. Cap is awesome but in the Marvel universe is his abilities are still only classified as peak human. He is not bench pressing cars or shooting laser beams out his eyes. He uses awesomeness as a weapon that cannot be beat. And he is the best leader they have ever had. Discounting him or saying he is lesser than the others is like saying that Nicodem's "Bolster Undead" is useless. He makes everyone better. But I understand why some people would not look past the straight combat stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 9, 2012 Report Share Posted September 9, 2012 I really want to talk more about Cap (and superheroes in general) but I don't want to clutter this thread. Re-direct to: here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Footman Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 There are other subordinates to Sonnia and Lady J, but only one of each of the ladies. They're the bosses. By the same token there are plenty of rebellion cells but since everything of an consequence is done only by Luke, Leia, Han, etc players often feel like playing the little fish is... well, pointless. Few players want to play second stringers or redshirts. it's like Dark heresy, you're often playing someone taking orders from an inquisitor higher up, usually communicating via messages or whatever. in this case we've just seen those higher ups in miniature form already. I doubt in a session of the Malifaux RPG, you're going to be riding along behind Lady J. who jumps up and kills off all the ressers in a major display of awesomeness while you almost die fighting off one measily zombie. at least if your GM's any good that shouldn't happen. and I wouldn't want to RP lady J. as a character, I'd rather play a character of my own making, like DeathMarshal Bob, leader of Squad A. who only occasionally see's lady J. and that's mostly at the Death Marshal picnic when she gives some speach about appreciating all the hard work all the deathmarshalls do, and awards the squad with the gighest headcount. yeah, if I GM, my campaign will have annual Death Marshall picnics, and Sam Vimes woul be chief of the Guild Guard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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