CrouchingMoose Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 So, I finally got some practice in with Lazarus at 30 stones and my impression is that he may not be worth it at that price. At 35+ ss games i think he would be amazing and could be set up for some great combos, but you would be sinking a large majority of points into gimmicks. I'm also under the impression that his scrap for permanent assimilate turn 1, isn't as useful as people may think. Obviously use soulstone from ramos is a good one but in 30 ss you waste a lot of points for scrap to get it turn 1. If your going to avatar you could have ramos and lazarus salvage under fire and laz kill the spider and assimilate use soulstone on the next turn with the 2 scrap. I dont know if im missing something but lazarus just isnt seeming to live up to what he can do on paper. What does everyone else think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 I reckon he's a good Taelor alternative at 8ss. Decent at range. Sure, there's no real combo there but the Viks have never been about combos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the imp Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 In theory, I'm using him as ranged support for my Vics. In reality, I just want a big damned robot. :Smug_Puppet2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverBullet Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 In theory, I'm using him as ranged support for my Vics. In reality, I just want a big damned robot. :Smug_Puppet2: +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzo917 Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 I haven't had the chance to grab him yet, but after looking at him for awhile i've thought of a few possible combos. Grab a performer w/ mannequin and have him use link and attach him to the Viks. In the future using Vanessa to hire arcanist's constructs and either steals their abilities, or hires arachnids and smashes them for scrap counters. A good go to is just a tag team with Killjoy. I think it'll take a bit of testing before he finds niche to fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Forget assimilate, it's a gimmick. Well Armored Self Healing Automatic Grenade Launcher With Legs. That's worth 8ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Forget assimilate, it's a gimmick. Incorrect. ---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ---------- Obviously use soulstone from ramos Unfortunately, Use Soulstone cannot be copied from Masters since Assimilate was specified to work on printed abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poltron Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 He's still one of the best shooting construct for a Ramos's crew, can heal even when Ramos manifests and is one of the only minion that can use the scraps that Ramos dropped when he died. Need more scavengers! I'm getting one for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Unfortunately, Use Soulstone cannot be copied from Masters since Assimilate was specified to work on printed abilities. I've always assumed the abilities given generally to group of models in the Rules Manial (Heal action, Use Soulstone, things related to characteristics and such) count as printed on the card, even if they are not there. Otherwise you not only wouldn't be able to assimilate them, but also Hex them off or affect them in any other way (since the effects modify the card, don't they?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 I've always assumed the abilities given generally to group of models in the Rules Manial (Heal action, Use Soulstone, things related to characteristics and such) count as printed on the card, even if they are not there. Otherwise you not only wouldn't be able to assimilate them, but also Hex them off or affect them in any other way (since the effects modify the card, don't they?). Had this discussion with Ratty. You can't Assimilate abilities that aren't printed on the card under Talents and Spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q'iq'el Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Had this discussion with Ratty. You can't Assimilate abilities that aren't printed on the card under Talents and Spells. It is quite an interesting development. Granted, I'm not sure if other actions/spells mention they affect only the talents/spells printed on the card, but now we in effect have two categories of talents/spells, which are not defined as such in the Rules Manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Incorrect. A slight overstatement, granted, but not by much. If you permassimilate (TM!) some useful ability, great, but building our crew around the ability is a bad idea. On the other hand, adding mobile artillery to a Viks or Schill list (or plenty of others) is pretty sweet. Edited September 1, 2012 by 011121 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 A slight overstatement, granted, but not by much. If you permassimilate (TM!) some useful ability, great, but building our crew around the ability is a bad idea. On the other hand, adding mobile artillery to a Viks or Schill list (or plenty of others) is pretty sweet. Nevermind the Permassimilate, the ability to poach Talents and Spells, for Hoffman at least, as some pretty stellar results. I have no doubt Laz and Ramos are going to having similar awesome coolguy stuff they can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Are you sitting down? Okay. The world does not revolve around C. Hoffman. I'm sorry to have to do that to you. Glad to see that "permassimilate" is catching on, though. Edited September 1, 2012 by 011121 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Are you sitting down? Okay. The world does not revolve around C. Hoffman. I'm sorry to have to do that to you. Okay, then lets talk about how good Assimilate going to be with Lazarus and Ramos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Had this discussion with Ratty. You can't Assimilate abilities that aren't printed on the card under Talents and Spells. What the FAQ implies is that you can't assimilate things that have been gained during the game. What was it exactly that Ratty said? ---------- Post added at 01:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ---------- by the way, I do believe it was ruled that Use Soulstones was counted as Printed on the Card. I think they explained it was to save Card Space Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 What the FAQ implies is that you can't assimilate things that have been gained during the game. What was it exactly that Ratty said? Hang on, I'll try and put this in the public eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 (edited) Here's the bit from the FAQ. Q. I'm confused, what can I Assimilate? A. If you can copy a Talent, you may copy any printed Ability, Action, or Trigger the target possesses only. Action Modifiers are not considered Talents for the purposes of Assimilate unless they are printed Talents possessed by the model. Example: Hoffman can Assimilate (+1) Melee expert from a Large Steampunk Arachnid as it's printed on the card. He can't, however, Assimilate Reactivate from a construct if it has been put on him by Rusty Alyce. More or less effects placed onto the model can't be copied. The question here is, is use soulstone from a Master or Henchman an ability printed on the card. As the FAQ is written I would say no, it's not physically printed on the card. However it is on the list of things to discuss, because Use Soulstone doesn't qualify as an effect. It's something that is always on the model. It acts as if it was a printed ability. So it's possible the FAQ item needs to be tweaked a tiny bit. Edited September 1, 2012 by Ratty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrouchingMoose Posted September 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Back towards the OT, I can understand how Lazarus can get some great stuff from any of the crews he goes with, espicially with Ramos or Leveticus. That being said, it's seeming like assimilate, and espically permassimilate, shouldn't be the focus of what lazarus is trying to accomplish. What he should be focusing on is moving into position and trying to set up for Automatic Fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Are you sitting down? Okay. The world does not revolve around C. Hoffman. I'm sorry to have to do that to you. Glad to see that "permassimilate" is catching on, though. Wait who is this Hoffman guy again? :Hiding_Puppet: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 Back towards the OT, I can understand how Lazarus can get some great stuff from any of the crews he goes with, espicially with Ramos or Leveticus. That being said, it's seeming like assimilate, and espically permassimilate, shouldn't be the focus of what lazarus is trying to accomplish. What he should be focusing on is moving into position and trying to set up for Automatic Fire. That's what I'm saying. He's artillery who may assimilate something useful, not a doppelgänger with a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenborne Posted September 3, 2012 Report Share Posted September 3, 2012 I have yet to use him, but looking over my cards it seems one of the best uses for assimilate is to grab fast or melee master so he can attack more often. I like the look of his melee trigger. Fast can be taken from Ashes and Dust, Melee Master from the arachnid swarms. I think triggers can also be assimilated, and there are a couple of nice ones on like Paralyze from the Swarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTDemon777 Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 i doubt triggers could be assimilated since youd need the specific weapon/spell the trigger is associated with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 i doubt triggers could be assimilated since youd need the specific weapon/spell the trigger is associated with you could however assimilate the Trigger and the specific spell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTDemon777 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 i didn't know you could do that O.O triggers count as abilities/talents or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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