011121 Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 One thing that bothers me about my beloved Collodi is why he uses scrap counters to make marionettes instead of corpse counters. The fluff makes it clear that he takes the souls of victims to make his "children." I think it'd make more sense, and probably be cooler, for him to have grave robber instead of scavenger and for puppet tools to use a corpse counter (or some new unique counter ala eye) instead of scrap. It'd be a lot more fun to taunt the opponent by referring to your marionettes with the names of his dead minions...well, more fun for me anyway. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I see it as him creating the vessels for the stolen souls of children to inhabit my 4 marionettes have names anyway (Punch and Judy, Jack and Jill). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeper00 Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I had Punch, Judy and Jack, but Jill never even occured to me. Thanx. I also think of it like scrap because of the "lines" coming off Collodi's fingertips getting snapped like a whip into a pile of scrap, which is why it can be up to 6 inches away, and a new little friend shows up to play made out of all the little parts. Little sticks of wood and gears rusting all around it. Doesn't strike me as the same if he cracked the whip into a corpse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted August 29, 2012 Report Share Posted August 29, 2012 I see it as him creating the vessels for the stolen souls of children to inhabit my 4 marionettes have names anyway (Punch and Judy, Jack and Jill). I was calling them Punch, Judy, Boy Marionette, and Girl Marionette. I am going to start using Jack and Jill instead. And I think it's creepier that the children are turned to wood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Shine Posted August 30, 2012 Report Share Posted August 30, 2012 He already has tons of children souls, just waiting on the scrap to encase them in for eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adanedhel Posted August 31, 2012 Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 Alternatively. Marionettes are constructs, and as such drop Scrap Counters. This way you can refresh Marionettes from your own dead dolls, because Nico can already tell you how unfun being reliant on Corpse Counters is, let alone if your own minions don't drop Copses, but Scrap. Also Scrap Counters are easier the Corpse Counter, because in despereate situatians a Scavenger can (All) Scavenge, to get a Scrap Counter, whereas a Graverobber no longer may take (All) actions to get a Corpse (blame 15 Canine Remains+ Nicodem lists for that). EDIT: Also see book 4, he needs victims to fuel Soulstones, and it are these Soulstones that fuel his dolls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted August 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'd like it better the other way, with collodi having to kill enemies (or living allies) to make his dolls, harder but more thematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addonexus Posted October 23, 2012 Report Share Posted October 23, 2012 But his puppets are made of wood and metal... so how could he make a new wooden puppet out of skin and bone? even in the fluff he doesn't make the puppets from dead children... he just transfers their souls into the puppets... he is after all giving them eternal life and a rotted corpse will rot away a lot sooner than a piece of crafted wood... so not very eternal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I was calling them Punch, Judy, Boy Marionette, and Girl Marionette. I am going to start using Jack and Jill instead. And I think it's creepier that the children are turned to wood! I named mine Twisty, Ugly, Girly and Posey...... >.> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 having it be a (2) action to only summon one seems a little weak too... lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 having it be a (2) action to only summon one seems a little weak too... lol. You are kidding right? Seriously this is a good thing, if he could make two of the lil buggers a turn he would be hella broken. As it stands he is almost silly good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 You are kidding right? Seriously this is a good thing, if he could make two of the lil buggers a turn he would be hella broken. As it stands he is almost silly good. Yea I'm serious. I really dont see marionettes doing a whole lot. If they are pulling strings, they arent really attacking. If they are attacking its because Collodi just cast Breathe life. My most recent game, I used Collodi as a master and my entire crew fell apart to 2 punk zombies. 2-3 Wd marionettes and wicked dolls dont get the job done imho. So if Collodi had a way to bring them back more economically. ( a (2) action to summon one from a scrap within 6 inches is not economical) Most of the time the scrap is more than 6 inches away due to Collodi's movement nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Yea I'm serious. I really dont see marionettes doing a whole lot. If they are pulling strings, they arent really attacking. If they are attacking its because Collodi just cast Breathe life. My most recent game, I used Collodi as a master and my entire crew fell apart to 2 punk zombies. 2-3 Wd marionettes and wicked dolls dont get the job done imho. So if Collodi had a way to bring them back more economically. ( a (2) action to summon one from a scrap within 6 inches is not economical) Most of the time the scrap is more than 6 inches away due to Collodi's movement nature. I'm afraid we also have a difference of opinion here. Collodi is the lynchpin of any crew I use him in. His disassemble spell is one of the best, if not the best, anti construct abilities in the game. Marionettes are his way of getting around and protection. If I take collodi and the arcane effigy I can summon a marionette and still use 2 spells... In any event it should be more of a last resort-he can create more of the models he needs to be effective, not every leader can do this. I'll give you 2 examples. Defense- imagine all you marionettes are smashed to bit and collodi is locked in combat... Collodi can cast a spell then summon a marionette, companion it an leave the dodgy combat he is in... Offensively he can really go for the objective late game by summoning a Marionette, pulling onto an objective and then having wicked dolls (0) to him before being able to attack twice or completing an interact action. Neither of these require collodi to DO anything, but he needs Marionettes to be the lynchpin. The (2) action is a great fallback option, not his best offensive tool. I also use him with zoraida- if I want to resuming a voodoo doll I have collodi use disassemble on it. That way he got the scrap counter for the potential bailout late on. One of my opponents rarely leaves his models in line of sight early in the game, so sometimes I also use this tactic to save myself 2ss- great if I'm using a weaver as I can start the game with some ravens or a desperate merc..... I agree it is not a game blowing ability, but it can save you games. Of it was an(1) action is would be OP- sure you need scrap counters but then collodi is never going to vulnerable...to be honest I would check the way you are using him, as after dreamer and Hamelin he is one of the most highly rated models where I play, and, with von schill, by far the best henchman IMO. Summary: useful ability to fall back on, rightly costed actions wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Yea I'm serious. I really dont see marionettes doing a whole lot. If they are pulling strings, they arent really attacking. If they are attacking its because Collodi just cast Breathe life. My most recent game, I used Collodi as a master and my entire crew fell apart to 2 punk zombies. 2-3 Wd marionettes and wicked dolls dont get the job done imho. So if Collodi had a way to bring them back more economically. ( a (2) action to summon one from a scrap within 6 inches is not economical) Most of the time the scrap is more than 6 inches away due to Collodi's movement nature. It is argueably already the best ability in the game to get new models. And having faced Collodi, if you are finding that the marrionettes aren't doing a whole lot, I honestly think you need to look at how you are using them. If Collodi and 4 marionettes are within 18" of a target, then in 1 activation you can have 12 paired attacks on that 1 thing. Thats going to push almost every model in the game to its limits. You can't pull it off with impunity, and models with area effect damage (like punk zombies) should be your priority targets. But masters like Nicodemus, Ramos and Rasputina have almost no way to survive a turn against this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I can't see myself taking him as a master anymore. Or at least until he gets some durable dolls to use. I'll still take him as a henchman with Pandora and Zoraida and such. But at least how I see him, I don't see him doing real well stand alone. with his 2-3 Wd dolls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I can't see myself taking him as a master anymore. Or at least until he gets some durable dolls to use. I'll still take him as a henchman with Pandora and Zoraida and such. But at least how I see him, I don't see him doing real well stand alone. with his 2-3 Wd dolls I think you may be missing the point of Collodi a bit, he is not there to be durable, he is there to get VP's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 My puppets are destroyed before they get any vp's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcXON Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 My puppets are destroyed before they get any vp's That seems like a PEBKAC problem more than a model problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Ruckuss Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 Persevere with him. He can win a game in a single turn if circumstances are right. I have had great success with him. If your looking for ways to bring the hurt add a pair of stitched. Most immune to influence models are constructs, which collodi eats for breakfast. If they aren't you +2wp stitched will own them. Collodi can heal them (so can wicked dolls) and also cast filled with stones to boot. Primordial magic hast the adaptable suit toactuallymake him better at casting disassemble anyway. Look at the way you are playing him- it sounds like you are trying to use him like Lilith. He's a funky ninja/shinobi, not a psycho samurai...persevere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BumpInTheNight Posted October 26, 2012 Report Share Posted October 26, 2012 I see it as him creating the vessels for the stolen souls of children to inhabit my 4 marionettes have names anyway (Punch and Judy, Jack and Jill). That's a lot better than what I call mine I painted each of them Black and another color so they're Red one, Purple one, Blue one, White one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 That's a lot better than what I call mine I painted each of them Black and another color so they're Red one, Purple one, Blue one, White one. Anyone else go to 'One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish' when they saw that? *wink* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychocamel Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 Using corpse counters sounds a lot less thematic to me. He uses their spirits, not their body parts. He traps them in dolls, not animated corpses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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