E.T.A. Hoffman Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) 8/29/2012 - Played a game yesterday. I got some things to add, so I'll ad Let's get down to it. First I'd like to just say I love the Lynch fluff. It's funny because his crew is more the master than he is. Nothing more than a loud mouth with a good luck streak. I decided that, because I love this crew, I would post up a review of the models and my overall opinion of them. This is simply my opinion and a place to start a Lynch thread. So enjoy in good health, feel free to skip to the end if it’s too long to read. Mr. Lynch: Lynch is not a typical neverborn master. We are used to masters that bring some level of shenanigans to the field, I.E. the Dreamer/Chompy sling shot, Pandora willpower grape, Lilith Transposition, ect. Lynch, IMO (sorry I wanna’ stress this point), doesn't have this. Not to say that is his crew is without it gimmicks, but it doesn't have that horrible power move that I feel is customary for NB. But, that isn't a bad thing. It's really about time that NB got a master who was just...good. A master that players didn't throw cock-eyed glanced at when you set him down on the table. Though I see ways of making them do so. Mr. Lynch Continued: Jacob is a support character to his crew. His pistol is respectable with a nice, random, trigger, but at 8" you'll find it situation. He is also very soft, with 8 wounds and only 1 defense trigger (it's an auto trigger that pushes him 4" back when in melee) he still is not made for prolonged combat. Plus he only has a stash of 2 stones, 4 if you don't take his totem. By and large, Jacob's role is to maintain your deck. He has three very nice abilities. One, he makes the 1 of mask a red joker, so he has two in his deck, but it only works for him, not his minions. Two, he can once a game trash his hand after the draw phase and then redraw. Last is his best, Dead Man's Hands. This spell allows Jacob to draw three cards but for each card, if the value is odd your opponent drops a card, and even he draws. This is a double edged sword, and in some of my games was a boon to my opponent. But, at least for Jacob it's always 6 cards, unless it's a 1 or 8 value card then you would not keep it. I found that taking the Arcane Effigy allows him an additional card each turn and a third attempt at Dead Man's Hands. So a possible 16 cards in your hand a turn if all goes very well. Of course, if you really want to abuse the power. You could take the doppelganger and copy his spell and then you could do it four times, for a possible 19 cards. But, it’s so many stones worth of models to do it, and you’ll get to the point that it really won’t matter. Pip the ace! An awesome trigger. I had three pistol shots and I needed to kill Lady J, who was under the protection of a Warden. I had two Red Jokers in my hand. Arguably, I could make this work. So I shoot once, hit LJ and do damage, she is going to ignore it though. I'm at a negative flip, but, I triggered pip the ace. I discard a card and bam! I got a straight flip. I drop the RJ for damage. Didn't kill the warden in one hit but it could have happened. Anyway, it's a great trigger that needs mentioning. Also should not, that his Roulette trigger is very frustrating when your opponent has no cards left. The Hungering Darkness: Arguably, this is the real master of the crew. If not that, then he is definitely the work horse. He comes free with Lynch, but you can opt not to deploy him and receive 2 extra stones in Lynch’s pool. I wouldn’t not recommend that unless you want to attempt one of Mr. Jacob’s schemes which requires HD not to be deployed, but I’ll get to that later. The Darkness is spirit with 7 wounds. Luckily he has a trick. If a model with brilliance dies, you can discard two cards of the same value and place the Darkness in B2B with that dead model. I'll repeat that, Placed, not summoned. The Darkness gets half as many wounds as the value on the cards you discarded. HD has a duel role in this game. He’s a melee beat stick. With a pair, magical, attack of 2/4/6 and a 3” reach. No extra AP for attacking but he does get a bonus damage flip to models with brilliance. He also gives brilliance with each attack. Let’s discuss his triggers for a moment. There are three, one requires the target model to make a CB-13 duel or suffer the same damage you dealt again. Which is nice, but it only really works if your opponent has few to no cards left. The next allows the Darkness to make a healing flip when he kills a model. Last, and best, he can make the target model brilliant for the rest of the game. Which brings us to his primary role. The Darkness has a 10” spell that gives out brilliance; both the spell and attack use this trigger. With his casting expert, and impressive CA of 7, I have found the best way to use him is to sit back on and give out brilliance for the first few turns. You’ll find a lot of things get easier once that job is done. What I have tended to do is simultaneously activate the pair and first use Lynch to rob you of your cards, which is a 10” spell, and then have the Darkness give out brilliance. I should mention that the darkness has use soulstone ability. You could also use the Arcane Effigy to give the Darkness an extra spell, since the Darkness counts as a master though he is worth 0 VP ever. I didn't get to try this, but it was discovered. Have the Beckoner gives HD brilliance. The Darkness uses serve me on himself, which he can do. He then gets reactivate after his turn. Plus, if he dies, and you manage to bring him back again, using his ream ability. Then you could get 3 activations out of him. Mr. Graves: Is your tank for all intent and purposes. He’s not the toughest customer ever, but for 7 stones, he’s more than worth it. He has black blood and armor +1 and 9 wounds. His damage is respectable but he’s more than just a club swinger. He has a few abilities designed to move models around. One allows him to push a model 5” then walk up to them and if you get the trigger, take swing with your club. This is a 1 action, so you can do it again and possibly shove a model 10” which is pretty big. He can also pick a point on the table and force all models off it within 6”. I found that his beat stick powers often get muddled with his shuffling abilities. I have not had too much success with him yet, but I speculate that the trick lies within making sure you use the right abilities at the right time. I also believe that combined withed Tannen, Mr. Grave can be very scary. Don't look at Graves as just a beat stick. This man has a lot of utility that I didn't realize till now. Before that though, I need to make a amendment, show yah the door only works on enemy models. Ok, so what I learned with Graves is, if you take Illuminated and Becks, he can use his bar's closed ability to get 4" of free move each turn. The crew is faster then they appear. Lynch has a spell that gives +1 movement. So you can double walk for 12" then use bar's closed, or whatever order you like. So 16" a movement. Mr. Tannen: Is not tough nor does he output a lot of damage. But what he does do is make it hard for your opponent to cheat fate. He has a passive 6” aura -I mean passive as in it is always active-. Enemy models in this aura must discard a card before they can cheat fate. He can also cast a spell that does not allow a model to cheat fate higher than me. He plays very much the way a cooler should. I try and put him right behind Mr. Graves and just follow the big guy around. When Graves gets into combat, Tannen gives him a huge edge. Honestly, I like this model. But, his 6ss could be spent else where. He's great, if you can get a fight in one big cluster. Otherwise, he'll be of little use for the first half of the game. He's good if you got the extra stones, but I need more playtime to be convinced. Beckoner/Jezebel/Honeypot: Whatever you call her, she is a great utility model. She can lure, not as effectively as some models, but she can also get a free walk action out of it at the same time. Her ranged attack is not high in damage but it ignores cover and grants brilliance. She has two other abilities that are very useful. One she can keep the party going, it’s a passive ability, 6” aura, models in it do not lose brilliance at the end of the turn. They can also rob people of their AP with one of her spells. For 5 SS she is a great combo with Illuminated. She lures the enemy in while he takes a whack. She has irresistible and if the model attacking her is brilliance then they receive double negative twist to the attack. I see myself running Lynch as a 10T and using Oiran with Beckoners. Illuminated: Are the potatoes of this crew I think. They are overall generalists. They have armor 1, regen 1 an impressive 2/3/5 damage arc, and a spell that gives them various enhancements. Their 8” gun can bestow brilliance, but I think it’s the melee attack with a flay trigger that makes them good. When I use them, I use the Beckoners to lure and these guys to attack. Once nifty trigger allows their range weapon to place a blast marker that gives out brilliance. Depleted: One of my favorite models. These guys are what inevitably happens to people on the ‘Stuff’. They are dried out husks. They are cheap but insignificant but if they can see the Darkness then they become significant. I prefer not to run them if the Darkness is not going to start the game on the table. They have hard to kill and severe damage against them turns into moderate, that plus armor 1 makes them very sturdy. They can give out burning tokens with their decent melee attacks and can push towards other models with brilliance, gives them a bit of speed. I have not found any really impressive synergies with them yet, they are simply an overall good model for the cost. Probably best for sitting on objectives. Schemes: Jacob has two Master specific schemes, which I believe makes him the first of his kind. One is called, “Read ‘em and …” and it’s probably one of my favorites. You need to end a round with a straight of 5 cards in your hand. It’s very thematic and more than a little challenging, because you cannot take the Hungering Darkness during deployment. I tried this once with the Arcane effigy and was very lucky to actually draw the cards I need in the first two turns without having to cast dead man’s hands. Which was pure luck, but you can see how it was supposed to happen. His other scheme is spread the light. This one is probably easier, because you get the HD to start. You have to end the game with no enemy models without brilliance and at least 2 models left alive. Synopses: The thing I’ve come to understand about Lynch is that he doesn’t come at you sideways. This crew is comprised of models that individually are very good. There is really no weak links among them. But, they also don’t have any tricks to make them faster. They still have to walk, one at a time, up to the enemy to punch them in the face. They don’t have a lot of long ranged attacks either. This is what makes them so different from most Neverborn. Compared to Collodi or Chompy, his crew is practically sluggish, though they are not as slow as other crews. They don’t have any safe way to get at the enemy like Lilith does with Transpositions or Pandora’s ability to bounce around and interrupt your activations. You also don’t get any guaranteed damage. Like Hoffman and his open circuitry spell. You have to approach Jacob thematically, like a poker player. You need to know when to fold them and know when to hold them. The essence of this crew is manipulation fate. We have models that can prevent our opponents from cheating and possibly even rob them of all their cards. I find this a lot of fun but also challenging. This crew seems to like being near each other. I look forward to running Stitched Togethers and Oirans to add some extra card stealing tricks. As I continue experimenting I’ll post up my findings here. If you got any questions or comments please throw them up here. Edited August 29, 2012 by E.T.A. Hoffman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thank you very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soseito Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Just finished reading and I'm glad the dark debts stuff will be my first new purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Yep, 'twas a good read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thanks! Glad it was informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttsgosadow Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Thanks for the nice read! It informs me as a player interested in this crew, and will help a lot when I face the crew on the table! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snord Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Regarding speed, I think it is a matter of learning the crew. It is a lot faster than the average crew of other factions. For instance, start by moving an illuminated up, and now your Depleted get a free (0) push towards the illuminated. Then you can activate Mr Graves and use "Bar's closed" right behind your own models, and there you go another free push. That is not to mention all the tricks the Beckoners can add to this with "Come Hither". In a game I played with a friend of mine, he had Mr Tannen meet me on my side of the board turn 1... pretty fast if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted August 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 That's not bad. I'll have to try that. I'm very much still learning this crew. You can use Mr. Graves to charge/push a beckoner 10" then when she activates she could come hither some models and then the depleted can use the free 5". Didn't see all the movement synergy there. Nice find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undisclosed Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Great read, thank you for writing it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
011121 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Depleted: One of my favorite models. These guys are what inevitably happens to people on the ‘Stuff’. They are dried out husks. They are cheap but insignificant but if they can see the Darkness then they become significant. I prefer not to run them if the Darkness is not going to start the game on the table. They have hard to kill and severe damage against them turns into moderate, that plus armor 1 makes them very sturdy. They can give out burning tokens with their decent melee attacks and can push towards other models with brilliance, gives them a bit of speed. I have not found any really impressive synergies with them yet, they are simply an overall good model for the cost. Probably best for sitting on objectives. Sounds like they have a few aspects that may make hamelin and maybe Levi sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxdie82 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Great read, thank you, i'm glad the dark debts will be my first purchase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwyrd Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 I want to run jakobs as 10T and bring a torakage so I can switch spots with Tannen so he moves up field way faster. It also let's you position other 10T models where you need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 Torrakage graves together i think will prove to let 10 thunders be able to do amazing bursts of speed in the early game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted August 23, 2012 Report Share Posted August 23, 2012 That's not bad. I'll have to try that. I'm very much still learning this crew. You can use Mr. Graves to charge/push a beckoner 10" then when she activates she could come hither some models and then the depleted can use the free 5". Didn't see all the movement synergy there. Nice find! Just keep in mind that the Come Hither is a WP resist spell, so it won't work on your Depleted and Mr. Tannen as they are both Immune to Influence. Torakage can really help with Mr. Tannen, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blog Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Great write up. Definitely my next dual faction master. Mei feng can wait Even though she comes after Jak anyways lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 I was afraid to start a thread of my own since I've yet to play him, so I'm happy you did. Nice writeup, and I hope there's more nice synergies out there to find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viruk Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Great read, thanks for sharing that. I ordered the Derk Debts set along with a few of he Neverborn plastics just because I liked the models but now I can see that they're going to be fun to play with too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarsnick Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Played a 25pt game with Jakob Hungering Darkness 1 Beckoner 2 Illuminated 2 Deplated Just to see how they worked. It was against Ramos using Bird Lady, the new Rail Golem, and Willie I took Bodyguard and Holdout just to see how things would work as was my opponent with the Rail Golem Here's some things I've discovered The Depleated are AWESOME board cloggers. Having a 0 to push their Wk to a Brilliant model anywhere on the board is amazing movement along with Shambling for their regular movement. I will have now have to seriously think of why I wouldn't take them with Jakob if the question comes up. I knew they were good, but not this good. 2 Beckoners are highly critical when trying to get Jakob's Candyman scheme done. I felt very vulnerable with just 1 Beckoner keeping the Party going (Brilliant does not fade at end of turn). It's either 0 or 2 in a crew I feel when running Jakob. Brillance makes the enemy so much weaker. Beckoner side note. You cannot Come Hither a Depleated. It says a Brilliant model uses it Cg to get closer to the Beckoner while the Depleated, well, has no Cg. There is no option to use Wk on a Brilliant. Found this out too late Hungering Darkness end of turn ability to eat a wound from a Brilliant model to heal a wound is great. Never forget it! He doesn't even need to see the enemy, just has to be within 5". Good to finish off those Hard to Kill models. The critical models that keep the crew going all have great ways to break combat. Jakob has a 0 action to push him 4 inches away if he is in melee AND also has a Df auto-trigger to push him 4 inch away if he is hit in melee. The Beckoner's have a 0 action to push 4 inches away. Depleated can push 5" with their 0 toward any Brilliant models including your own. All pushes so not disengaging need apply. Very hard to pin this crew down. The easiest way to infect some model, I found, is the Illuminated Cloud Trigger that puts down a 50mm marker. Get a Depleated or a Illuminated near the thing you want to infect, use Brillshaper to give Cloud the mask if you don't already have a mask in hand, then nuke your own Depleated and be sure to make it hit. Bonus if your target is in some Steam for the neg flips! Pop out a cloud and it will automatically give Brillance to a model, even one you couldn't normally see in steam. Jakob's Holdout Pistol trigger has a lot of good things going for it. Paralyse and the Poison 2 are great. Dead Man's Hand is great even if you do what I do and give your opponent a Red Joker two turns in a row. Actually, that sucked, but making the opponent discard half-way through the round is harsh, especially if you do it once with Jakob and again with Hungering Dark's Magic Extension Always remember that when you summon Hungering Darkness, he will make remove immunities from things around him AND I think it can also affect Anathema models. All the pushes in Jakob's in the above crew read "up to" so if you don't want to bring your Beckoner up to meet her john, then you do not have to. What I saw on the Arcanist side. Willie is hilarious, but the cut on damage from the Illuminated and Depleated having both Regeneration made it not so bad especially when they flip Severe on a depleated. Hungering Darkness can back from the brink of dying using Consume. Thomas came up, gave him train drugs (in the streets, we call it "Choochoo"), and whomped on him. Armor 2 is something else on him. Really fun crew and I haven't even gotten to the Security of the Honeypot Casino! Also things rules wise to consider; Brilliance is a characteristic. I believe this can be Shrugged Off but Brilliance is not a token nor a counter. Edited August 24, 2012 by Sarsnick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Dead Man's Hand is great even if you do what I do and give your opponent a Red Joker two turns in a row. Actually, that sucked, but making the opponent discard half-way through the round is harsh, especially if you do it once with Jakob and again with Hungering Dark's Magic Extension Cant cast though magical extension:) Anyways, keep the input coming, much appreciated for one awaiting his own crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 I played two games with him last night...both were very interesting. His crew tends to have a lot of rules, forgetting any one of them can cost you the game in my experience so far. His crew plays so different from what I'm used too, it may take some time to really get the hang of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted August 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Something you wanna also notice. The Hungering Darkness is not Summoned, he is Placed. Big difference ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarsnick Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Oh, I know. Just had a mindfart when writing the post. Hahah I have played quite a bit of Dreamer and know how awesome "Placed" is. So awesome how they pulled the Darkness comic with the look of the Hungering. I might paint it pitch black with a slight purple glow and paint Jakob like Jackie Estacado. Maybe replace the skeleton things with Jakob with these Goblins as Darklings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JisaacT Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 Thanks for the posts. I'm excited to use them once my gencon order comes in. Speaking of which has anyone gotten there stuff from an order yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfndrate Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 This write up is great. I walked up to Wyrd's booth at GenCon, and picked up all of the new neverborn models (just need 5 more orphanage bases before I can play with my Beckoners and Depleted :'-( ). I don't know if I want to Run Lynch, Graves and Tannen consistantly, but if I do, I would probably try to center a list around those three for when I do. Any ideas of what you would suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarsnick Posted August 24, 2012 Report Share Posted August 24, 2012 This write up is great. I walked up to Wyrd's booth at GenCon, and picked up all of the new neverborn models (just need 5 more orphanage bases before I can play with my Beckoners and Depleted :'-( ). I don't know if I want to Run Lynch, Graves and Tannen consistantly, but if I do, I would probably try to center a list around those three for when I do. Any ideas of what you would suggest? I have no first hand accounts of Tannen and Graves but Graves is just an amazing tank with board control. He also folds into the Brillance mechanics by hitting Brilliant models harder (I forget if it was on the attack flip or the dmg). I would like to hire Jack Daw with Tannen at one point so every fight with the two of them within range will just cause laughs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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