Bishop...thoughts?

[-mustang-]

Hey,

I've only been playing Malifaux for a couple of months now. I use the Viktorias and I am wondering if there is a purpose to Bishop? It seems that he just takes up a lot of ss'.

He doesn't quite fit my play style either...I tend to use 2 Ronin, Convict Gunslinger and Johan at 25 ss.

I could be wrong altogether about Bishop...but he doesn't seem that great of a model.

Please let me know your thoughts!!

[SilverBullet]

I have never actually used Bishop. Although his card looks like he should be really awesome I always think that for one less soulstone I could have Lady Hammerstrike or even Von Schill, both of which (especially Von Schill) have always served my Viks crew well.

[Orboros]

Bishop is currently the most overpriced model in the game. He literally does nothing which would justify his ss cost. In my opinion making him 2 ss cheaper or giving him abilities on the line of Instinctual would solve the problem but thats only my humble opinion

[Bruglyother]

Bishop is more about control than damage. He's a toolbox of abilities. Rathnard did a pretty good review of him on the most recent Aethervox podcast. I think I'll be doing my own write-up of him in the not too distant future. (After my upcoming vacation).

[osoi]

I run Bishop a bit but only with the viks and/or Von Schill. He is a flexible control model that certainly has his uses. Yes he is expensive but I have never found him as dead weight.

[BloodDragonCC]

He might be very good with misaki (master version) I hear she likes isolated models and bishop can do that quite well.

[DireTrollJake]

I REALLY like him. But he is an 8 point, MAYBE 9 point mode.

[Rathnard]

Like Bruglyother said, I give a rundown on my experiences with Bishop on the latest Aethervox episode, so definitelty give that a listen if you're curious about Bishop.

Basically though, Bishop is not comparable with mercs like Von Schill or Taelor simply because he fulfils a completely different role to those models. For the most part VS and Taelor are mostly about damage dealing (plus VS's mobility and the anti-construct, anti-undead tricks) - something that I'd argue the Viks already tend to have in spades.

Instead, Bishop is a disruptor. He's much faster than his stat line suggests and his vast array of triggers/spells allows him to slow, paralyse, push or otherwise disrupt the enemy models he's engaged with. He can deal a very respectable amount of damage if you want him to but for the most part, his best trick comes from using is Toss trigger to push enemy models around however you want. With it you can push models into/out of combat, away from key objectives or out of cover for the rest of your crew to deal with.

So unlike the rest of the Viks usual "punch you in the face" style of crew, Bishop offers a very versatile and tactical piece with which to play with. Is he overcosted? Probably, but he's still not a waste of soulstones and certainly isn't as useless as many people make him out to be. I'll continue to use him with just about every Viks crew I use, because Bishop is the exact kind of model I love using.

[Barbagianni]

Not much experience, but I think he is a lot more useful in defense. His triggers might be a bit card intensive, but not many minions like to attack Df 6/8 on defensive stance that can riposte them, or leap away (if they have 2'' of melee).

Problem is, I'm not going to field him much under 25ss.

[Rathnard]

Problem is, I'm not going to field him much under 25ss.

This is what I'd recommend at 25SS;

Viks

Bishop 10

Convict 'Slinger 5

Student of Conflict 3 (7SS Cache)

Bishop's the tactical piece while the Viks do your melee damage. The Student helps slingshot the Viks, after which it's enhancing the Convict Gunslinger. At 30SS, I swapped the Slinger for Sue and added a Ronin.

[gonzo917]

Recently after looking at his card for far too long if found out about a few nasty combos bishop has.

-Combo 1 : Cast study opponent. +1CB and dmg against target enemy model. Cast Cage Fighter +2CB. Charge target enemy model. You'll have a 10cb and :+fate dmg flip and you'll have melee expert for a 10cb and for 2nd strike. It's range is about 7in, but it'll hurt just about anything.

-Combo 2 : First activation move into proximity of enemy and Cast study opponent. +1CB and dmg against target enemy model. Cast Cage Fighter for +2 Def to keep you alive through next activation. 2nd Activation. Use adaptive fighter for :masks. If enemy model is in melee use melee expert and trigger toss aside. Move model 3" away. Use 1ap to Charge model again and trigger toss aside again. Repeat one more time. You'll end up with at least 2 charge strikes at 8cb :+fate dmg and 1 melee expert strike at 8cb and . Even if you don't kill kill the individual model you'll force your opponent to discard at least a few good cards. Also having the :masks from adaptive fighter increases your odds of Riposte on the defensive.

Combo 3 - This is very similar to Combo 2 but works against a small group. Rather than targeting a single model you'll bounce between a few enemy models using adaptive fighter for :masks to toss aside or cage fighter and using the +2 def to avoid disengaging strikes and increase your survivability if the enemys are still alive.

Edit: Rathnard has posted a similar thread earlier and went over some of these combos as well. A lot of credit should go to Rathnard.

Edited December 4, 2012 by gonzo917

[MudgeBlack]

Nice observations, I'll have to give them a go when I get Bishop back.

[Nephilim Nate]

Bishop is fine, he has an answer to a lot of situations. I've not used him much because of cost and I like Taelor.

I think I would be tempted to try him again after reading all this. I do like to try and mix things up.

[Bruglyother]

My local group has begun to dread (in a humorous manner) when I bring Bishop out. It's not that he's overly powerful, but they never seem to know what I'm going to do with him in any given game. I feel I get my worth out of him when I play him, usually with no real problems. As Nate said, he has answers to a lot of problems.

[Chargy]

My local group has begun to dread (in a humorous manner) when I bring Bishop out.

I was beginning to wonder when you would chime In here, Bruglyother. I don't have the good fortune to have the model to play with, but i do see that he is versatile. That is his most obvious strength. He seems to be a swiss army knife in most respects...not the machete peiple seem to expect from certain outcast minions.

[Rathnard]

He seems to be a swiss army knife in most respects...not the machete peiple seem to expect from certain outcast minions.

And that's exactly the point about Bishop. If you want something that mostly just kills things then you're best off taking models like Taelor and Von Schill. Bishop is capable of killing things, but he's also capable of so much more. He's a tactical piece, able to adjust to the situation at hand to both disrupt your opponents crew and support your own. And it's a role that I feel he's very capable at.

[gonzo917]

I did some play testing yesterday with a my friend who was just starting Kirai. He's a champ with Lilith, but wanted something new. Bishop really shined in that game. I was not fully aware of what Kirai could do with Senshin. Bishop used adaptive fighter and toss aside to throw seishin away from kirai preventing her from passing on the hits. This let me get off my Assasinate scheme against kirai which i now learned is very difficult. Using the Student of Conflict to give Bishop fast also gave him so many more options. i think Bishop has earned a new found respect from me.

[twenty4seven]

Bishop is one of my favorite models in the game and most people don't like him much so I frequently toy with ways to get the most out of him on the tabletop. Here are the most fun synergies I've come up with thus far.

Glow Bishop - This solves the problem of Bishop being a relatively slow model. Take Bishop in a Kirai crew and turn him into a spirit with the lost love. You now have a spirit Bishop that Kirai can swirling spirit to get anywhere you want him on the board in no time at all. This also gives you an efficient way to heal Bishop and will ensure that he remains in the fight.

Family Man Bishop - Whoops I was mistaken. Edited this one out.

Rot Bishop - Back on the green team you can make Bishop undead with the necrotic machine and then use Nicodem to bolster him to a potential cb11, df 8, or cb7, df10.

Scholar Bishop - This one is kind of a last resort but can be devastating and hilariously fun. Have Hungering Darkness Heed my Voice Bishop to get tons of actions out of him and then once you have an opportune moment give Bishop brilliance and have him reactivate.

Beastly Bishop - Use Bishop in a crew with Avatar Marcus. Turn him into a beast to benefit from the Instinctive Behavior and Rise of the Beasts abilities.

Bishop is a ton of fun. None of these tactics are super optimized but some of them can be very effective and your opponent will never see them coming. In order to inspire more Bishop hilarity I'm going to run a tournament called "A New Challenger Approaches" which is a 25 stone tourney where the only restriction is that Bishop must be hired by every player in every round!

Edited December 6, 2012 by twenty4seven
Removed "family man Bishop" as it was illegal. My mistake.

[Carse]

Family Man Bishop - Marry Bishop into the Ortega family with Abuela's Shotgun Wedding ability. This one's pretty straight forward and doesn't augment Bishop much but allows him into the mega family companion chain.

If I remember correctly Shotgun Wedding doesn't work on unique models.

[twenty4seven]

If I remember correctly Shotgun Wedding doesn't work on unique models.

Whoops you're right. Too bad because Bishop in a cowboy hat would have been hilarious.

[Kadeton]

"Beastly Bishop" could also give Myranda access to Study Opponent, which might be nice. A bit expensive to take both of them together, though.

[osoi]

Rot Bishop is fun (primarily do it with convict gunslinger) but Family Man Bishop wont work since shotgun wedding cant target named characters.

[Dunni]

I don't know if its beginners luck, or what, but Bishop always seems to remove a lot more points worth of enemies than he cost me to hire. As long as I remember to activate him in the right order of actions.

[Euclid (#ScottishMeta)]

Does Vanessa help bishop any? He can now get the suit he needs AND get +2 cb. I'm going to be trying this out later in the year when my viks make a return.

[Barbagianni]

Or give him +2 dmg with critical strike (and +3 if you're lucky on the card draw). Or an auto 2-suit trigger.

Still a costly combo, though.