Speedy Collodi

[Pinocchio]

Just had my first game of Malifaux. (Woot!)

My crew consisted of:

Collodi

4X Marionettes

4X Wicked Dolls

2X Stitched Togethers

One thing that i knew already was that Collodi is a stinkin' fast Henchman, hence the combo posted on Pull My Finger (PMF). However PMF, notes that i would need to give Fast to my Marionettes, thus giving them 3AP. However to (1)Walk, and then (1)Pull Strings, just requires 2AP.

I guess the point of giving the Marionettes Fast would have been for the sake of making the activated Marionette move to a quiet place to stay out of harms way and wait to be pushed into base contact next turn. But with PMF, i get the impression that i might have missed or overlooked something as to why the Marionette needs the 3rd AP.

[Alviaran]

I believe the point is so that the Marionette can get to safe place where they won't get shot after they move Collodi. I just played him for the first time tonight and he is tons of fun, even at a small level. But I felt like my Marionettes were in danger way too much when I didn't give them Fast to jump behind some cover after they moved Collodi.

[The Godlyness]

Also used for when you want little wooden talons beating non puppets up.

[M_Ruckuss]

I believe the point is so that the Marionette can get to safe place where they won't get shot after they move Collodi. I just played him for the first time tonight and he is tons of fun, even at a small level. But I felt like my Marionettes were in danger way too much when I didn't give them Fast to jump behind some cover after they moved Collodi.

You give the marionettes fast so that they can potentially have 3 attacks if you decide to Alpha strike or to move them to a slightly less vulnerable position, as previously stated.

As for keeping them safe, both the marionettes itself and Collodi benefit from the marionette you intend to ALWAYS keep closest to Collodi having filled with stones on it- sure you lose 2" a turn but this means that Collodi can deflect the effects of attacks onto the marionettes which are hard to wound and now have hard to kill and armour 2... pretty sweet. It will also keep the marionettes themselves alive longer. Although stitched are great and taking two is brutal once you become more experienced try the arcane effigy. It requires more finesse but is less spamy. It gives you a Ca 6 vs Ca range attack and allows Collodi to cast filled with stones twice during his activation, or give all dolls fast whilst still having x2 AP to cast spells.

[011121]

You don't really end up losing any movement as the walk of 5 means you waste 2" anyway, since they have to remain within 8" of collodi. There's really no downside to FwS other than that it takes a (2) cast.

Also note that 3 is on the low side of attacks for marionettes. Between fast, flurry, and melee expert (breath of life) you can get 5 attacks with the little buggers. It's sick.

I've been meaning to try more stitched with the idea that the stitched work forward through cover (their own fog if necessary). Once one is in position I have collodi jump in, give it fast and casting expert, then (0) doll friend to activate it next and let it go to town on an enemy with the damaging spell and gamble your life's (with Collodi's WP boost to boot). I've also toyed with the idea of trying to use the stitched's ability to bury a ht1 model to pull some marionette shenanigans, but I'm not sure what exactly. Maybe you could use it to evade the limit on marionettes? Bury one, make another? Does that work? I don't have my rules manual unpacked since moving.

Yes the arcane effigy is awesome. Extra card, extra casting AP, decent combat abilities. It's even better if using Zoraida with Collodi.

Edited August 9, 2012 by 011121

[Alviaran]

You give the marionettes fast so that they can potentially have 3 attacks if you decide to Alpha strike or to move them to a slightly less vulnerable position, as previously stated.

As for keeping them safe, both the marionettes itself and Collodi benefit from the marionette you intend to ALWAYS keep closest to Collodi having filled with stones on it- sure you lose 2" a turn but this means that Collodi can deflect the effects of attacks onto the marionettes which are hard to wound and now have hard to kill and armour 2... pretty sweet. It will also keep the marionettes themselves alive longer. Although stitched are great and taking two is brutal once you become more experienced try the arcane effigy. It requires more finesse but is less spamy. It gives you a Ca 6 vs Ca range attack and allows Collodi to cast filled with stones twice during his activation, or give all dolls fast whilst still having x2 AP to cast spells.

Oh, I've been playing the Effigy with pretty much every Neverborn Master. I love that guy SOOOOO much. I'm crutching hard. Probably the only master who isn't getting him right now is Lilith. And when I get her Avatar, I fully intend to run him instead of the Primordial Magic. (Yes, Neverborn can have both, but Arcane Reservoir doesn't stack so I don't see a point).

I played the Effigy with aZoraida for the first time too and man is that awesome. "2 for Create Voodoo Doll on Som'er across the table...and now I Pins and Needles him three times with a hand full of high Masks for my trigger. GG"

BTW, was it ever determined in the rules forum if his casting AP from Conduct Aether was allowed to be combined with the Casting Expert?

Edited August 9, 2012 by Alviaran

[Setoth]

I played the Effigy with aZoraida for the first time too and man is that awesome. "2 for Create Voodoo Doll on Som'er across the table...and now I Pins and Needles him three times with a hand full of high Masks for my trigger. GG"

I thought the Voodoo Doll couldn't Conduit a Master model? Or did that get errata'd?

[Alviaran]

I thought the Voodoo Doll couldn't Conduit a Master model? Or did that get errata'd?

Oh bah. Touche. Didn't see that on there. Bah!

Second Zoraida game and my first with the Voodoo Doll. Oh well.

[Setoth]

Oh bah. Touche. Didn't see that on there. Bah!

Second Zoraida game and my first with the Voodoo Doll. Oh well.

Haha, I know the feeling. The first two times I ran her I hadn't read the "Obey can only be cast once per activation" part. Four Obeys a turn is just wrong at 25 soulstones.

[M_Ruckuss]

You don't really end up losing any movement as the walk of 5 means you waste 2" anyway, since they have to remain within 8" of collodi. There's really no downside to FwS other than that it takes a (2) cast.

Also note that 3 is on the low side of attacks for marionettes. Between fast, flurry, and melee expert (breath of life) you can get 5 attacks with the little buggers. It's sick.

I've been meaning to try more stitched with the idea that the stitched work forward through cover (their own fog if necessary). Once one is in position I have collodi jump in, give it fast and casting expert, then (0) doll friend to activate it next and let it go to town on an enemy with the damaging spell and gamble your life's (with Collodi's WP boost to boot). I've also toyed with the idea of trying to use the stitched's ability to bury a ht1 model to pull some marionette shenanigans, but I'm not sure what exactly. Maybe you could use it to evade the limit on marionettes? Bury one, make another? Does that work? I don't have my rules manual unpacked since moving.

Yes the arcane effigy is awesome. Extra card, extra casting AP, decent combat abilities. It's even better if using Zoraida with Collodi.

Zoraida is usually my master with Collodi in her crew- I know all about the Arc Ef combos- they are great! Thats a great point on the movement, and I know the ridiculous number of attacks you can get from the marionettes. Its even better with their trigger- they are only 2 SS but become better than many more expensive minions. For me stitched are almost to gopd with him to ever use more than one- I get funny looks from my main opponent otherwise!

The other model to use with Collodi is the Widow weaver, especially when you are also using Zoraida. In a recent game I had Zoraida, a Doppleganger and the WW making wicked dolls for a few turns then zooming collodi up the field-their ability to (0) to him and make interact actions is incredible.

Oh, I've been playing the Effigy with pretty much every Neverborn Master. I love that guy SOOOOO much. I'm crutching hard. Probably the only master who isn't getting him right now is Lilith. And when I get her Avatar, I fully intend to run him instead of the Primordial Magic. (Yes, Neverborn can have both, but Arcane Reservoir doesn't stack so I don't see a point).

I played the Effigy with aZoraida for the first time too and man is that awesome. "2 for Create Voodoo Doll on Som'er across the table...and now I Pins and Needles him three times with a hand full of high Masks for my trigger. GG"

BTW, was it ever determined in the rules forum if his casting AP from Conduct Aether was allowed to be combined with the Casting Expert?

The main advantage the PM has over the Arc Ef is the ability (when linked to collodi) of casting diassemble, which is a great spell. However, the Arc Ef, whilst costing 2ss more, actually allows you upto three Ca 6 attacks, attacking against cast which is a nice ability to have in a crew which normally focuses on df and wp. Is is also significant as is a doll, so all of collodis buffs work on it. Most compelling of all is the ability to get x2 filled with stones off on turn 1, because yes, it does stack with casting expert to the best of my knowledge. Abilities such as poison, casting expert and arcane resevoir do not because they are the same ability. Different abilities which do the same thing tend to stack (for instance Hoffmans abilities allow him gain lots of armour and some abilities grant you fast and then reactivate.

[notmikehill]

I ran Collodi as a master a week ago and the list was something to this extent:

Collodi

4 Marionettes

Widow Weaver

Arcane Effigy

Brutal Effigy

2 Stitched

The Stitched with Collodi's +2 WP and a fast action made sure nothing was left alive on my opponents end of the table. That and filling Marionettes with stones made it close to impossible for my opponent to get through a marionette wall with my objective being distract. Widow Weaver just grabbed/made scrap counters waiting to make a Teddy too! Good times!

[CrouchingMoose]

Out of curiosity how would the colodi box plus all effigies fare in general?

[notmikehill]

I don't really know to be honest... I have Carrion for corpse counter denial and lose immunities to stitched, Brutal for ranged support and healing, and Arcane for the extra card and free spell for Collodi. Never really looked much into the others honestly.

[Alviaran]

Zoraida is usually my master with Collodi in her crew- I know all about the Arc Ef combos- they are great! Thats a great point on the movement, and I know the ridiculous number of attacks you can get from the marionettes. Its even better with their trigger- they are only 2 SS but become better than many more expensive minions. For me stitched are almost to gopd with him to ever use more than one- I get funny looks from my main opponent otherwise!

I Gambled Kaeris to death with Reactivate and WP8 with a Stitched last night. That...didn't seem fair.

The other model to use with Collodi is the Widow weaver, especially when you are also using Zoraida. In a recent game I had Zoraida, a Doppleganger and the WW making wicked dolls for a few turns then zooming collodi up the field-their ability to (0) to him and make interact actions is incredible.

I have yet to put the Widow Weaver on the table, but that many high cost models makes me stop. I just feel like I'd be down a lot at that point.

The main advantage the PM has over the Arc Ef is the ability (when linked to collodi) of casting diassemble, which is a great spell. However, the Arc Ef, whilst costing 2ss more, actually allows you upto three Ca 6 attacks, attacking against cast which is a nice ability to have in a crew which normally focuses on df and wp. Is is also significant as is a doll, so all of collodis buffs work on it. Most compelling of all is the ability to get x2 filled with stones off on turn 1, because yes, it does stack with casting expert to the best of my knowledge. Abilities such as poison, casting expert and arcane resevoir do not because they are the same ability. Different abilities which do the same thing tend to stack (for instance Hoffmans abilities allow him gain lots of armour and some abilities grant you fast and then reactivate.

This isn't about same named abilities not stacking (also, Fast does not stack with Fast. Some abilities say that if you already HAVE Fast you get Reactivate, but it does not mean they stack. Armour is the only stacking ability in the game). The problem is that Specific AP cannot be combined with other AP. For instance, Collodi cannot walk once and then cast Filled With Stones because he cannot combine a general AP with his Casting Expert AP. Some feel that the Conduct Aether is a special exception to this but the Marshals have been quiet on it so far.

[notmikehill]

The ruling for conduct aether was talked about in a rules forum. It's understood to be giving another ap to cast spells, it can be combined with another general ap to cast 2 action spells or even channel a spell.

[tadaka]

Casting expert however cant combine with a general action point so casting a 2 spell 2x in one turn is not an option. (Well unless he gets fast from some where else)

[Setoth]

Casting expert however cant combine with a general action point so casting a 2 spell 2x in one turn is not an option. (Well unless he gets fast from some where else)

But couldn't Casting Expert combine with Conduct Aether? I know that it says +1 AP for casting spells, but the +1 AP isn't a general AP is it?

[Pinocchio]

Thanks for al the replies so fart.

So basically put, the 3rd AP on the marionettes doesn't contribute towards Collodi's movement, but rather giving them the chance to either strike when they arrive, or to move to a safe spot until they pull themselves towards Collodi again.

[Alviaran]

But couldn't Casting Expert combine with Conduct Aether? I know that it says +1 AP for casting spells, but the +1 AP isn't a general AP is it?

And thus you hit the crux of the argument. IIRC the "cannot be combined" says unless the other ability permits. Some feel that with the option to channel (since Conduct Aether is a specific AP and cannot be combined itself but the option to channel makes it sound like this AP CAN be combined with others) means that this one is permitting it.

It isn't worth hashing out the argument here since it is already in the rules forum, but that is my understanding of the argument. It is good for people to be aware that this is still to be ruled upon so for now, check with your opponent or TO before a game rather than getting into an argument at the table when you try to do it.

And yes, Pinocchio. The Fast is really for when they go to get into combat. I kind of stumbled with this last night, but I'm looking forward to more games with the crew (and at higher pts levels. It was a declared Hench fight so we did 20ss so he could use his entire Kaeris box) because it was a lot of fun anyway. Also, I still need to track down some Necron Flayed Ones so I can steal their claws. My Collodi needs new claws.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Thanks for al the replies so fart.

So basically put, the 3rd AP on the marionettes doesn't contribute towards Collodi's movement, but rather giving them the chance to either strike when they arrive, or to move to a safe spot until they pull themselves towards Collodi again.

Or grab objectives along the way! I often use that third AP for reclaiming some Malifaux.

[011121]

But couldn't Casting Expert combine with Conduct Aether? I know that it says +1 AP for casting spells, but the +1 AP isn't a general AP is it?

Honestly I find the who "you can't combine these AP with those Ap" to be one of the few truly lame aspects of Malifaux and so I ignore it completely. Consequently I have no idea whether given variations on it are legal or not.

[M_Ruckuss]

Out of curiosity how would the colodi box plus all effigies fare in general?

@ CrouchingMoose Well actually- Brutal effigy (with built in critical strike, fast and hard to kill) becomes a one-doll crew wrecker, Arc Ef is a usefl support minion, and the hodge podge effigy is fun in an allcomers style list.

I Gambled Kaeris to death with Reactivate and WP8 with a Stitched last night. That...didn't seem fair.

I have yet to put the Widow Weaver on the table, but that many high cost models makes me stop. I just feel like I'd be down a lot at that point.

This isn't about same named abilities not stacking (also, Fast does not stack with Fast. Some abilities say that if you already HAVE Fast you get Reactivate, but it does not mean they stack. Armour is the only stacking ability in the game). The problem is that Specific AP cannot be combined with other AP. For instance, Collodi cannot walk once and then cast Filled With Stones because he cannot combine a general AP with his Casting Expert AP. Some feel that the Conduct Aether is a special exception to this but the Marshals have been quiet on it so far.

I know-couple them with an insidious madness and strip immunties to WP and they even wreck constructs. Its almost a guaranteed 9 wounds a turn. Now imagine running PANDORA with a Doll's list which featured multiple stitched w/collodi and his buff....one day she will take a cuddle and I will be able to get her out of my box without people yelling at me!

Its a fair point RE WW but I take Collodi, Zoraida, the weaver, the Arc Ef and the hooded rider. Zoraida summons a voodoo doll which obeys the WW to discard x2 cards to gain a scrap counter. The weaver does this herself and summons a wicked doll. The nexy turn the voodoo doll repeats the action and the WW can summon 2 dolls. In x2 turns I can pay the model back in terms of SS, and she allows me to pick up/make use of corpse counters. While she does end up being slightly left behind the rest of the crew the wicked dolls can (0) to Collodi or Zoraida. I ended a game the other day with 6 wicked dolls and a Teddy (although admittedly I was using the Doppleganger for an extra obey a turn and I put alot of resources into it. I was defending line in the sand and my opponent (who played a much better game in truth) would have won but I was able to swamp him with wicked dolls, which I think are HUGELY underrated when used in large numbers. Its not for every scheme but I am currently 3-0 with that particular 35ss list

I have used claws on mine, or rather the top set-the bottom hands I have placed over one of Zoraida's dolls so he has a "puppetter" pose, looking a if he is summoning a marionette. I recommend their use as they really do make the model look more imposing, but having seen one conversion with x2 pairs and mine with one I prefer the single set. More than anything for the fluff ).

Ive re-read it and think I may have found a different wording in the older rules, either way I see why the debate is on so I agree, I wouldn't do it twice for now. The free AP from the effigy still allows you to free up a single action point though right?

@Ted Pro- Taking reclaim Malifaux would be great fun with a Collodi crew....will give it a go next game!

Edited August 9, 2012 by McDoogle

[Alviaran]

@ CrouchingMoose Well actually- Brutal effigy (with built in critical strike, fast and hard to kill) becomes a one-doll crew wrecker, Arc Ef is a usefl support minion, and the hodge podge effigy is fun in an allcomers style list.

Personally, I really wanna' grab the Brutal and Carrion as well. I don't know what I would ever use Hodgepodge for though.

I really like Mysterious so far. Not quite as much as Arcane, but Mysterious is still proving useful. Especially with the dolls all having such naturally high Df, adding more to that vs ranged attacks makes them a lot more difficult to take down.

I know-couple them with an insidious madness and strip immunties to WP and they even wreck constructs. Its almost a guaranteed 9 wounds a turn. Now imagine running PANDORA with a Doll's list which featured multiple stitched w/collodi and his buff....one day she will take a cuddle and I will be able to get her out of my box without people yelling at me!

I do love me some Insidious Madness, ever since I took them with Kirai and learned the wonders of negative twists on WP duels. Oh, glorious day!

I actually tried Pandora for our league the other day and felt dirty. She definitely needs some tweaking. (I made McMourning slit his own throat with Self Loathing flipping the Red Joker. It was amusing but I felt bad for doing it)

Its a fair point RE WW but I take Collodi, Zoraida, the weaver, the Arc Ef and the hooded rider. Zoraida summons a voodoo doll which obeys the WW to discard x2 cards to gain a scrap counter. The weaver does this herself and summons a wicked doll. The nexy turn the voodoo doll repeats the action and the WW can summon 2 dolls. In x2 turns I can pay the model back in terms of SS, and she allows me to pick up/make use of corpse counters. While she does end up being slightly left behind the rest of the crew the wicked dolls can (0) to Collodi or Zoraida. I ended a game the other day with 6 wicked dolls and a Teddy (although admittedly I was using the Doppleganger for an extra obey a turn and I put alot of resources into it. I was defending line in the sand and my opponent (who played a much better game in truth) would have won but I was able to swamp him with wicked dolls, which I think are HUGELY underrated when used in large numbers. Its not for every scheme but I am currently 3-0 with that particular 35ss list

Hm. I only have the three Wicked that came in the box. I should give this a go at some point. I've been really exploring Neverborn and played Collodi for the first time yesterday, really enjoying his movement shenanigans. I tend towards movement shenanigans in any game I play, which is why I am really loving Neverborn.

I have used claws on mine, or rather the top set-the bottom hands I have placed over one of Zoraida's dolls so he has a "puppetter" pose, looking a if he is summoning a marionette. I recommend their use as they really do make the model look more imposing, but having seen one conversion with x2 pairs and mine with one I prefer the single set. More than anything for the fluff ).

Most times, it is a pair of Flayed Ones someone is selling anyway though since they came in blisters of two so I'll probably pin and play with both setups before gluing something in place. Top claws HAVE to be replaced though. >.<

(Who knows, we might be getting a Collodi resculpt though!)

Ive re-read it and think I may have found a different wording in the older rules, either way I see why the debate is on so I agree, I wouldn't do it twice for now. The free AP from the effigy still allows you to free up a single action point though right?

Like I said, it's something to talk to your opponent or TO about and get a ruling beforehand.

And basically, it appears to be a specific AP. So, can you combine it with even a general? That is the whole question. I wish they would make a ruling on it. (I may be a bit biased but I am in the camp of it being usable because of it mentioning Channel, implying it can be combined. But we shall see)

@Ted Pro- Taking reclaim Malifaux would be great fun with a Collodi crew....will give it a go next game!

A very good point. I'll have to take Ted Pro's advice and give that a try sometime. What, three table sections a turn that way? Take it with Breakthrough and it should be a pretty easy set of schemes with the right strategy.

[M_Ruckuss]

Personally, I really wanna' grab the Brutal and Carrion as well. I don't know what I would ever use Hodgepodge for though.

I really like Mysterious so far. Not quite as much as Arcane, but Mysterious is still proving useful. Especially with the dolls all having such naturally high Df, adding more to that vs ranged attacks makes them a lot more difficult to take down.

I do love me some Insidious Madness, ever since I took them with Kirai and learned the wonders of negative twists on WP duels. Oh, glorious day!

I actually tried Pandora for our league the other day and felt dirty. She definitely needs some tweaking. (I made McMourning slit his own throat with Self Loathing flipping the Red Joker. It was amusing but I felt bad for doing it)

Hm. I only have the three Wicked that came in the box. I should give this a go at some point. I've been really exploring Neverborn and played Collodi for the first time yesterday, really enjoying his movement shenanigans. I tend towards movement shenanigans in any game I play, which is why I am really loving Neverborn.

Most times, it is a pair of Flayed Ones someone is selling anyway though since they came in blisters of two so I'll probably pin and play with both setups before gluing something in place. Top claws HAVE to be replaced though. >.<

(Who knows, we might be getting a Collodi resculpt though!)

Like I said, it's something to talk to your opponent or TO about and get a ruling beforehand.

And basically, it appears to be a specific AP. So, can you combine it with even a general? That is the whole question. I wish they would make a ruling on it. (I may be a bit biased but I am in the camp of it being usable because of it mentioning Channel, implying it can be combined. But we shall see)

A very good point. I'll have to take Ted Pro's advice and give that a try sometime. What, three table sections a turn that way? Take it with Breakthrough and it should be a pretty easy set of schemes with the right strategy.

I don't play many guild and arcanist games, but I may have to break out the mysterious effigy next time I face a gremlin crew. How useful is the ability where you draw a card and if you defence is lower you are affected negatively (I've lost my card and cant remember the exact wording of the ability-will replace card with gencon order, sorry for being vague!).

Im in the UK but if you struggle to get hold of a pair give me a shout as I have some kicking about somewhere if you really stuck/someone is charging an arm and a leg!

I know how you feel about Pandora- I dont really enjoy liliths play style (its ok but I LOVE Zoraida/Collodi) so cannot wait for the new neverborn crew to come out (I won't play the dreamer as everyone whinges about how good he is). I also like the hooded rider with her-he is themy and competative enough without being really harsh.

I really recommend a doll summoning list. Its not always the one to take but with collodi, Zoraida and an arcane effigy and either a dopple ganger, hooded rider or pair of other effigies to 'entertain' the enemy the WW (and Zoraida if she has nothing better to do) can create a small army of dolls. You massively out activate your opponent in most cases and you can activate collodi, give them fast, drag collodi using marionttes to the enemy, pull all of you wicked dolls to within to of collodi and get three paired attacks a model which, after the first, ato have poison one (if you position correctly). If you have taken the dopple you have a good chance of going first next round, can activate collodi to make them all fast again (assuming their is anything left), companion a doll, finish off an enemy model then summon another doll! I want to play a summoning game in the future JUST to see how many dolls I can get in one go!

[Alviaran]

I don't play many guild and arcanist games, but I may have to break out the mysterious effigy next time I face a gremlin crew. How useful is the ability where you draw a card and if you defence is lower you are affected negatively (I've lost my card and cant remember the exact wording of the ability-will replace card with gencon order, sorry for being vague!).

Beguiling Litany. It's a 0 that can cause Slow if their WP is lower. Since it isn't a duel, Immune to Influence and such don't stop it (I almost Slowed my own Teddy last night). I haven't really used it much. I honestly use Rapid Acceleration more than I thought I might.

Turning him into a 9" charge really throws people off. Especially since if he got Fast and Melee Expert, he can charge something a bit farther away, hit it, push back towards his crew to something else, hit it and then push into a better position to block or get to safety (yes, it is only two of his three attacks, but I have found that is really useful to have an extra in there if you flip poorly. If all goes perfectly well, then he charges, pushes, melee experts, pushes and then walks 5" to close it all out. A little Effigy slingshot)

Beguiling is a really nice idea if you get alpha struck or they fail to kill him (Df6 and Obj1 make him REALLY hard to kill. I wanna try Filling him with Stones though. Still has a Cg8 then while being really REALLY hard to kill, letting him stick around causing that Litany problem a lot)

The one bit I am disappointed about him is that Disguised Fate requires a 10 of something to cast. It is a useful ability, but I don't think it is THAT good. I really like the idea of it, but I just don't use it. He's usually better off walking and Obfuscating instead, burning a good card on Obfuscate instead. And if there isn't much ranged on the other side, I'd rather just double walk into position to threaten.

Im in the UK but if you struggle to get hold of a pair give me a shout as I have some kicking about somewhere if you really stuck/someone is charging an arm and a leg!

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. I'm trying (half heartedly) on Bartertown to get just some claws or some cheap used ones. I can get a pair on eBay for around $12 USD shipped as I recall.

I know how you feel about Pandora- I dont really enjoy liliths play style (its ok but I LOVE Zoraida/Collodi) so cannot wait for the new neverborn crew to come out (I won't play the dreamer as everyone whinges about how good he is). I also like the hooded rider with her-he is themy and competative enough without being really harsh.

I enjoy Lilith but the one that drew me to the faction was Nightmare Teddy and Chompy. I love the entire concept of the Dreamer so I had to play him. I'm glad he's gotten a few cuddles actually. Now I want Pandora to get some adjustments so I can play her too. I love the idea of playing a different WP oriented game, but the way she does it is just so nasty I cannot do it in good conscience. I will probably play her for tournaments and nothing else because she just isn't fun otherwise. And if I can get good enough with my other masters to get the job done with them instead, Pandora will likely stay in the case.

aZoraida on the other hand...

I really recommend a doll summoning list. Its not always the one to take but with collodi, Zoraida and an arcane effigy and either a dopple ganger, hooded rider or pair of other effigies to 'entertain' the enemy the WW (and Zoraida if she has nothing better to do) can create a small army of dolls. You massively out activate your opponent in most cases and you can activate collodi, give them fast, drag collodi using marionttes to the enemy, pull all of you wicked dolls to within to of collodi and get three paired attacks a model which, after the first, ato have poison one (if you position correctly). If you have taken the dopple you have a good chance of going first next round, can activate collodi to make them all fast again (assuming their is anything left), companion a doll, finish off an enemy model then summon another doll! I want to play a summoning game in the future JUST to see how many dolls I can get in one go!

Definitely need to give that a go. How do you feel about bringing in aZoraida into that? The early turns, it would seem I can afford to lose initiative as the doll factory gets rolling. And then I can turn things on their head with her abilities.

I just played her and fell in love. It's a little hard.

I think I'll need to get some more Wicked Dolls before I really give that a go. How many do you generally get out?