Gruesome Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 In ancient times (literally) there was the idea of teaching people "Statecraft". It had to do with learning about managing things in the public interest. "Wise Leadership" might be a way of thinking of it and it was considered an important thing. (And NOT to be confused in any way with the train wreck of today that we call management) As is human nature, over time, we messed it up and "politics" became predominant and "Political Science" became the norm. Rather than taking the time to understand how to lead, we turned to "understanding" the masses and how to navigate trends to achieve our own goals. We also spawned the idea that every Tom, Dick and Harry ought to sit around as armchair quarterbacks and burn enormous time and energy(From all the sitting) judging the choices of the current leadership and theorizing on why the "other side" would do better. Now we have a world where a "debate" occurs in which the questions are often known beforehand and after which political parties send people with PRE-PREPARED rebuttals to content from the debates to lambast the opposition in a place unashamedly called "Spin Alley". (wtf?) Lets move to late 80s.. Cable TV is really popular and ESPN is finding that they can run sports coverage all day long. (And reruns into the night) They fill time by covering a large range of sports and everything seems cool for those niche sports that otherwise would get no love. But then ESPN realizes that even cheaper than getting footage from "lesser" sports is to take a page from the current world of "Politics" and instead just start making more and more shows where people... Talk... But there is only so many things you can really say about a game and rather than putting forth the effort to talk about ALL the games, they made the economically savvy move to start yelling opinions at each other. And discovered that people watched it. Having people talk is cheap... FINALLY, Radio could get in on the action as there was a medium that was strictly sound and a product that was eminently affordable. You have a planet full of ex-athletes and almost-athletes with degrees in "Communication" that love to talk. Sports talk shows start springing up EVERYWHERE. Entire stations with 24 hours of programming start littering the dial. But they need content and they do not want to talk about much that isn't Baseball, Football or Basketball (With some Hockey sprinkled in), so instead they choose to talk about the BUSINESS of sports and suddenly the whole world is complaining about payrolls and the relative dollar value of player A vs. player B. And they make a lot of money and are really popular and everyone likes them. Of course, if you just want to know the score of the game, you have to wait until the commercial breaks at the :20 and :50 while sitting through 30 minutes of complaints about a word used in a post-game interview by the strength trainer... So... I pop in one of my two favorite Malifaux podcasts last night and for the 3rd or 4th episode in a row, felt like I was listening to CrossFire. I don't want to name the podcast or the topic as calling it out specifically is not the point. I simply feel like I have been here before... ... and I am sad... (But still looking forward to crushing the guild Wednesday *AND* Thursday night in a rare "get to play two days in a row" moment) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadilon Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Interesting essay. I can't guess which podcast you are referring to. I am shamefully behind in my listening. I don't disagree with what you are saying about sports (and news) media. In this case, could it be that the podcasts are just reflecting some of the more intense discussions that are going on in the forums recently? I mean, could the podcasts actually be discussing the current topics, as opposed to the sports shows just pontificating? ---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 AM ---------- Perhaps I shouldn't have chimed in, not having heard the podcast myself. So feel free to reject my pontification. =) I was just saying perhaps the podcasts are not over analyzing and pontificating, but just reflecting the topic of the day, thats all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 In this case, could it be that the podcasts are just reflecting some of the more intense discussions that are going on in the forums recently? You could well be right... But I am not sure that would make me any less sad. I can also understand from a "programming/scheduling" perspective how grabbing up the latest controversy is the easiest and when you are trying to churn things out so regularly, sometimes you scramble. Not trying to single any podcasts out, but in this case I will as its a positive note. A reason why the Aethervox is one of my favorites is that I feel like they do not let a schedule drive getting something out the door and therefore very seldom resort to "filler". Now, that is entirely my perspective and they may very well be chuckling at how often it really occurs, but I am just saying that it does not "feel" that way to me. And if they are using filler it does not seem like its "controversy/crossfire" style, which, at least for me, gets quite old. I want to stress that I am still a fan of the unmentioned show as well as a couple others and that I will continue listening. I just wanted get my thoughts into writing as I realized what had been bugging me about the show recently and where the roots of my own issues with it were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuttlebut Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I think we all know that Gruesome is talking about the intense rivalry that has developed between Malifools and NPR's Wait Wait Don't Tell Me. Rumours are that Old Man Myke and Carl Kasell will settle it at Wrestlemania XXIX in a steel cage match. Or did I dream that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I tried not to make it so obvious, but failed. I also wanted to add that its not necessarily a bad thing for podcasts to do and that I am sure many people LIKE that style. There are REASONS why those sorts of political shows and sports radio are the way they are. Because people watch/listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrabbit37 Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Out of curiosity, Gruesome, what would be your preferred feature for a podcast? If point/counterpoint or debate doesn't fill what you're looking for, what does? You hold Aethervox up as a great podcast (which it certainly is - one that I always make sure to catch... personally I love their fiction segments). What is it that one nails for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePandaDirector Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm not a sports fan (I'd quite literally rather watch paint dry) nor do I watch much news. Unfortunately I hate to say (coz it's very much a fallacy) but it seems far worse in America where shouting loudly is kind of a cultural staple (though just look a British Parliment) =[ I did keep up with the Republican Presidential Candidacy "debates" and thought they were comedy gold. That whole thing was side splittingly funny for a non-American. Rick Perry's "Oops" being the diamond, but behind the greatest words ever spoken by a presidential candidate - "I believe these words came from Pokemon Movie" - God bless you Hermain Cain, wherever you are, Adam West is waiting for you to come home now. The problem with America is that your media is so drawn to war. It started with Fox telling the "other side of the story" and suddenly you had Republicans versus Democrats and nothing inbetween, you fed that conflict and now you wage a war against "the other side" rather than fight... oh I don't know... corruption, incompetence, discrimination, etc. Same with the drug war; just using the word "war" immediately equates to all sides losing. I'm surprised you can find time to fight the "war on terror" with all the so-called wars your involved with. I don't think I've ever been prouder to be British than when Nick Griffin (leader of the racist British National Party) when on Question time and someone asking a question "slipped up" and addressed him as Dick Griffin =D There are some cases when something isn't worth taking seriously, like NAMBLA... and Fox So I suppose it's ironic that a lot of the latest noise on the forums has apparently come from the UK (bloody English ) Obviously you Americans are a bad influence =P To be honest I spend quite a lot of time having debates and discussions about all kinds of topics (film, technology, femminism, racism, communication, religion, politics, and that's just in relation to Puppet Wars =P) and have never really had an issue. I admit, at least online, it can be infuriating when people either show they don't even understand your point or they refuse to respond fully (rephrasing what I said or hitting a whole other nail is not advised), but I have my Panda Policy to guide everything I do, and that includes a strict No Anger Policy (if I get angry I don't eat bamboo for a week). I have never once seen a case when anger has helped an argument. If someone shouts and won't let me speak, I walk away. Or head butt them... pontification Hehe, that sounds like an oxymoron for when you poke something and it goes *pon* =D *Pon* *Pon* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* *Pon!* -ahem... yeah.... *Pon* I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Out of curiosity, Gruesome, what would be your preferred feature for a podcast? If point/counterpoint or debate doesn't fill what you're looking for, what does? You hold Aethervox up as a great podcast (which it certainly is - one that I always make sure to catch... personally I love their fiction segments). What is it that one nails for you? I am trying to stay away from absolute judgments so I would say that its more accurate to say that Aethervox is a great podcast FOR ME. I do not mean that to sound like nitpicking as its really at the heart of a lot of recent "controversy" in the forums lately as people tell each other what is or is not objectively true as if there is such a thing in model stats and balance. Whats funny to me is that in the very same podcast I listened to last night that sort of put me over the edge into posting, there was also a nugget earlier in the same cast that made me want to run home and playtest a model that I have not thought well of, nor have many posters here. So, the same show exemplified the extremes of what *I* like and dislike in a podcast. On the one hand, the debate and opinions and arguments are not interesting to me, however often I seem to find myself embroiled in Red Joker talks and such... And on the other hand was a talk about models I own and how to get the most out of them in a game. For me, I use podcasts associated with my hobbies as "supports" for the hobby, whether its painting, constructing, playing or whatever. And of late, it seems like "competing/balance" is winning the lionshare of time on many podcasts and I think that is unfortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 The best part about only having 1 listener to your podcast is you can always be pretty sure that any comments about podcasts can in no way be pointed toward your cast.... *grin* With that said, I love our listener. *grin* I had something I wanted to type, so I should probably get to it. I have to admit I got a bit lost in the original post above as it started talking about sports so I went and checked on my paint drying. I think I got the gist of the post after going back and reading again. I can appreciate that point/counter-point can become a bit tiring, especially in the US as we lead up to another election and the politics are mind-numbing. With that said, I wanted to share a little insight into how I plan out the recordings I do. This is probably a little dangerous, but I will use the last three shows of the Gamers Lounge as an example. Warning, this is kind of like a spoiler, but probably far less cool. If you do not want to be disappointed with the magic of Bill's patent pending podcasting formula for success, skip to the next post as its probably far more interesting. So, the now infamous Episode 54 with EricJ. It basically came around like this. I was looking at the calendar and realized that I had not only missed having EricJ on in several months, but also that Gencon was fast approaching. I usually start bugging him around April, and I had not done so. With that, I started pinging EricJ, he responded like the true gentleman he is, and we got on skype and turned on the recorder. After that it was all about asking questions as they popped into my head and let him ramble on, then try to get him to slip up and tell us more than he originally wanted to. This time it was much easier than previously, thus my multiple speechless moments. Episode 55 about Resurrectionists. This came about in a pretty interesting way to my mind. Basically, I am fascinated by players who complain about Malifaux. Its typically how I have gotten most of the "louder" forum people onto the podcast. It especially interests me when I see a view that is opposite from my own feelings/perception/thoughts about the game. So, Sandwich had put up a couple posts that were very well written and I was enjoying reading, but that really kept beating up Resers. I did not have the same perception of the faction or the game that he was presenting, but he was getting a lot of feedback that seemed to agree with him. Then that fateful comment was made and I spotted it. Sandwich actually typed: I truly do wish I had a method of actually voicing my opinion, using my voice. Maybe in some kinda fancy pants interwebs debate. That'd be rad. This was like gold. I figured that with the attention the current thread was getting combined with my fascination with the topic, combined with my desire for a deeper understanding of an opposite opinion to my own, well this could not fail. So, I coordinated with him to get him on the podcast. I ran into one problem at that point, I had no ground to stand on when discussing resers... really. So, I reached out to my friend and now co-host Zephir to jump into the conversation. This let me have two people with opposing views AND good information have a discussion, and I could just latch onto the conversation and ask some questions. Episode 56 about Composition. This is actually really funny in the way it came about, as its a much hotter topic now than when the episode was actually recorded. So, there are 3 parts to the episode overall. The first part recorded was actually the last part of the episode. UKRocky and I are working together on the Dead Heat campaign Breachside Broadcast and during that he asked me to take a look at his comp pack he was developing. I agreed, with the caveat that I am opposed to comp in malifaux. After looking it over and writing up a long email about my thoughts, I thought about it a bit and figured it might make an interesting podcast topic. Add to that podcasters are fairly vain AND a pretty tight-knit group overall and I realized I had not had him on my show yet. So, two birds with one stone and all, we recorded our segment. We had spoken about it and due to my release schedule, that recording was shelved for about 3 weeks until episode 56 released. Then I saw there was some increased traffic about comp and balance on the boards, so I offered the oppurtunity for anyone else in the UK to come on the show and take an opposing view. I thought it would be good to explore thier meta with someone who was opposed to comp as I am. Not one listener or forum poster took me up on that. So, then conversation between Zephir, WRabbit, and I came to fruition and Ep. 56 was the first time they would be joining the show as full-on co-hosts. That created the first part of the episode, the return of Lounge Talk. I love this because it lets me ramble and still get feadback, opposed to just rambling to myself into a microphone. Then we wanted to do a bit of a counter point, which was really just us discussing our views on comp. Thus, the point-counter-point in the last two episodes. So, this is really really long, which makes me think maybe it would make a good podcast.... *grin* ** after writing all that I am sure Greusome was not talking about Gamers Lounge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManMyke Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Im guessing you are talking about the joker rant in last episode of malifools. Sorry you didnt like it but the nature of our show is that we are going to talk about whats happening in our continuing adventures with the game and thats one of the things thats bugged me since I started playing - certainly wasnt a rant just for rantings sake, but more an issue I feel strongly about. It wont become a regular thing - in the next episode we will be staying far far away from all the recent unplesentness cause its not something that we think we should be discussing as it doesnt impact on our gaming experiences and ultimately thats what the show is about. Hopefully you'll find something that you do like next time around, though at the end of the day it is just a few blokes sitting about alking like they do round the pub. And if it was a completely different issue then why was it, its all about me after all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Talking about what specific podcast made me finally primecoat my drowned last night would serve no purpose... I think rather than talking about what I personally do not like which could very well be in the minority, I would like to suggest something different that I *WOULD* like that I have not seen done. First: If "competition" is a focus, then lets REALLY get into it and away from theory. I would love to see honest-to-goodness coverage of a tournament that is beyond First-Person perspective. Someone whose purpose in attendance was to know the names, factions and match-ups and give round by round discussion of placements and standings. Perhaps even with occasional mid-game commentaries. At adepticon, there were rewards given out mid-tournament for certain sorts of events that occured like master kills and such. This was the players getting the attention of the tourney runners. If a "reporter" were on hand, we'd have not only what the reward was, but first-hand testimony of some trick or play, etc... If we are going to have opinionated commentary, it would be cool to have it about a specific game, rather than the game system as a whole, abstracted. Post-game comments, "Where did it all go wrong for you?" etc... Would this be boring listening? Were *I* to do it, probably. Fortunately, there are people far more clever and better spoken that I think could make tournament reporting very interesting and informative. I think that a clever reporter could paint a picture of the tournament with discussions of who are favored, what they are running, etc. I think that the player community would get a kick out of being covered too. I know that my son really enjoyed hearing about his games on podcasts as he has played both Bill and Spencer the last two Adepticon's respectively. Even if things delve into balance debates, the idea that it could be done on the spot, where the corpse counters are still "fresh" might lend more perspective to things than the Theoryfaux that seems to dominate so many of these discussions. Anyway... Thats just a thought. . . . The other thing that I would suggest that *I* would like to see is more ageless content. I think the breachside stuff is fantastic and many kudos to all involved. But, for me, the Aethervox is the only podcast that I have gone back a year to re-listen to because of some of its fluffier side content. I liked Gamers lounge recently delving into the Wyrd Chronicles too. I liked things they noticed that I never did and it made me go back. Anyway... just wanted to put something more positive out for what I like since I think I started the thread with too much of what I do not like. And its not like a single OPINION is overly relevant anyway. I understand completely that all of these casts are side hobbies and ultimately time-consuming services that are done for more than simple personal satisfaction. They are a service to us all, so thank you. (Even if it sounds like I hate you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaberible Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have a feeling Jon was going to try some 'in game reporting' from our league matches tonight, which is now maybe a bit awkward cos if he does people may think he was taking advice from this thread, which he wasn't. Of course I could be wrong (it has happened before) -not that I'm suggesting he shouldn't take advice from this thread- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManMyke Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 He is indeed - maliblips are go . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Luck Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 You were talking about the last episode of the Bayou Broadcast, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrocky Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 You were talking about the last episode of the Bayou Broadcast, right? Shhhhh. It's not out yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I must say that I am really interested to see how many podcasts think that I was talking about them. Its not something that I expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silas Cordell Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I must say that I am really interested to see how many podcasts think that I was talking about them. Its not something that I expected. Me, too. I predict you meant Gamer's Lounge, as it's the only podcast that has had 3 or 4 episodes in a row. I know Malifools is at 4 officially, but it's 3 really, and none but the last one had any debate in it. Personally, I don't much mind what the topics are, as long as they are entertaining. I love Aethervox, Gamer's Lounge, Cheated Fates, and Malifools. Lost Boys Radio hasn't really clicked for me, and while I like Bayou, it makes Aethervox look regularly scheduled (still check it almost every week, though). As long as it's an entertaining listen, talk about whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuttlebut Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 @Gruesome Only Myke realistically thought you were talking about Malifools. It is (and will always be) all about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I must say that I am really interested to see how many podcasts think that I was talking about them. Its not something that I expected. You seem to miss that podcasters = narcissist..... How else do you expect us to jump on a microphone regularly and record our opinions for everyone else to hear. And I do not mean that in a negative way.. its just all about us. *grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephir Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 finally primecoat my drowned last night You're welcome Wait Narca... what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManMyke Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 You seem to miss that podcasters = narcissist..... How else do you expect us to jump on a microphone regularly and record our opinions for everyone else to hear. And I do not mean that in a negative way.. its just all about us. *grin* I did not mean to imply narcissism either. But, if the shoe fits. Its interesting to me mostly because I think that all the podcasts apparently could look at what they have been doing and find the things that fit the mold I described. You're welcome Wait Narca... what? Yeah, I figured my bags were cat-free with that comment. But, I did appreciate your talking about them and intend to give them a whirl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Dammit I want to yell and scream at people on the radio... why does no one invite me!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilus Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 You seem to miss that podcasters = narcissist..... How else do you expect us to jump on a microphone regularly and record our opinions for everyone else to hear. And I do not mean that in a negative way.. its just all about us. *grin* What about all those narcissists that are also lazy? Oh right, just use some BS event as an excuse to get on all the podcasts and babble. All the opinion, none of the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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