Making sure I undersatnd Levi

[ravenborne]

So according to the new FAQ, if a talent does not say you can go to zero wounds, and has a fixed number of wounds, you cannot have Levi actively use it to kill himself.

So is it correct that the only talents that he can use to directly kill himself are Death's Lessons, Desolation and Necromantic Sacrifice?

[Stern]

Yes this is true, they are the only 3 ways to kill yourself (unless you fancy using drain souls on yourself)

remember your own guys can attack him I have seen alot of people use alyce to headshot him!

[ravenborne]

I know you can also just put him to one wound and he will die in the closing phase also, right?

[Cunning]

I know you can also just put him to one wound and he will die in the closing phase also, right?

Correct. Always try and do this if you can. It not only allows your waifs to have an activation if they haven't already but also slightly increases your survivability.

[AdrianMills]

I know you can also just put him to one wound and he will die in the closing phase also, right?

If both waifs are not present burn a SS to prevent the 1 wound

[Alex]

Wait, CAN you sacrifice your master for Drain Souls? Because that seems awesome, but I thought it was non-insignificant minions only, but don't have rulebook on-hand.

[dunce002917]

Drain souls - sacrifice up to 3 significant models within 6". and yes, masters can be sacrificed too

[ravenborne]

If both waifs are not present burn a SS to prevent the 1 wound

Oh, that's slick.

[Bigmike]

Levi getting himself killed should be one of the easiest things in the game to do

[dunce002917]

Levi getting himself killed should be one of the easiest things in the game to do

I've grown to have the opinion that if Levi doesn't die at the end of the turn, you're playing him wrong..

[LoboStele]

While I'm not 100% clear about the new FAQ, it used to be that you could use any of Levi's spells to kill him, because you weren't performing an action that was guaranteed to kill him. There was always a chance that you might fail the Casting Cost, and the spell wouldn't go off. Therefore, the spells were allowed. I don't think that's changed with the new FAQ, but I could be missing something.

[ravenborne]

I don't think any of that wording is in the FAQ or rulebook. I think it was all forum answers, but I could be wrong. That's why I brought it up.

[GrAYFoX]

How it now works has already been answered, so I'll quickly recap what's changed:

• Levi's wounds in spells are paid as Casting AR, RM pg. 53. So if you fail the cast (don't get the suits or number) you don't lose the wounds. You must pay the AR or the spell fails. So the wounds are lost in order for the spell to succeed regardless if it's resisted or not
  
• RM pg 44. "A model cannot use a Talent or cast a Spell that requires it to inflict Wd on itself if it would reduced its own Wounds to 0" This has now been expanded to the new FAQ ruling
  
• The new FAQ response to killing and sacrificing yourself only allows for the three spells mentioned in the OP. This has always been the case since the RM and Levi's v3 card due to the rule mentioned on pg. 44 above
  
• You sure can Drain Souls on your master due to the same FAQ ruling above. As brought up by Pockets, myself and various posters, Wyrd have never stepped in to say otherwise even on official threads
  

Edited July 6, 2012 by GrAYFoX
Clarification

[LoboStele]

No, the confusion has always stemmed from the fact that Levi's spells do not 'require' you to lose wounds. It is a possible outcome, since the spell could fail. That's where the original difference came from, and that discrepancy still exists today, IMO. I suggest posting the question in the rules forum to get a clear answer.

[GrAYFoX]

I can't speak to how it was pre RM, since that is when I started playing. However, I disagree there is still a discrepancy now as it's clearly stated in the Casting AR section of Magic as to how it works (if and when) IMO.

If it helps, here is a previous marshal answer to casting AR:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?22511-Additional-spell-costs#3

Edited July 7, 2012 by GrAYFoX

[Mantis840]

nevering using Levi, i just read his card, and the rulebook( all newest editions) and it's obivously clear what you can and can't do with Levi to kill him, I think if someone's having a problem understanding how it works, they might be trying just a little too hard to find a loophole.

[Trevelyan]

nevering using Levi, i just read his card, and the rulebook( all newest editions) and it's obivously clear what you can and can't do with Levi to kill him, I think if someone's having a problem understanding how it works, they might be trying just a little too hard to find a loophole.

This. When several abilities explicitly state that they can be used to kill him and some do not then the answer is pretty clear...

[ravenborne]

Sometimes forum questions are posted so that players have something more official to point to when trying to resolve player arguments.

[LoboStele]

If you want an official answer, you need to go post in the rules forum, not the generic Outcasts forum. That's for 'discussions'.

[Mantis840]

Ya know what else works? Reading the Rulebook and FAQ's. My 8 year old daughter figured out how Levi works in like 5 minutes. So heres my suggestion: if Levi confuses someone that much, then they probably should play a different master lol.

[ravenborne]

Wow.

[LoboStele]

Ya know what else works? Reading the Rulebook and FAQ's. My 8 year old daughter figured out how Levi works in like 5 minutes. So heres my suggestion: if Levi confuses someone that much, then they probably should play a different master lol.

Ductman, there's absolutely NO need for those kinds of responses. Levi is (and has been) widely regarded as a rather complex Master to learn, and tougher to Master. The question is quite valid as it DID use to work differently. Maybe YOU and your 8 year old genius daughter understood it fine, but that doesn't give you the right to make condescending remarks like that. Please take such attitudes elsewhere. "If you can't say something nice" and all that.

[Hatchethead]

It's never too late to make a terrible first impression!

[Mantis840]

Nah Lobo i was responding to you irrationalization of the" what if the possibility of the spell going off" remark. The rules are stated very CLEARLY in the rulebook and on the card for Levi. And it upsets me when someone starts throwing around ridiculous counters from the " What If" department.

You were talking about the "What If" the spell could fail trying to argue that Levi could then potentially kill himself with any spell, when it clearly states which can drop his Wds to zero. And if a couple people don't wanna be my friends because I called them out on their Blatant attempts to cheat the current system and try gaining an unfair advantage, then oh well, no sweat off my back.

If you see me in person i'm one of the best and most respectful people to play with, but sorry I don't tolerate attempts to misuse wording just to gain the upper hand.

[LoboStele]

Nah Lobo i was responding to you irrationalization of the" what if the possibility of the spell going off" remark. The rules are stated very CLEARLY in the rulebook and on the card for Levi. And it upsets me when someone starts throwing around ridiculous counters from the " What If" department.

You were talking about the "What If" the spell could fail trying to argue that Levi could then potentially kill himself with any spell, when it clearly states which can drop his Wds to zero. And if a couple people don't wanna be my friends because I called them out on their Blatant attempts to cheat the current system and try gaining an unfair advantage, then oh well, no sweat off my back.

If you see me in person i'm one of the best and most respectful people to play with, but sorry I don't tolerate attempts to misuse wording just to gain the upper hand.

I'm sorry you misconstrued any of my posts as attempts to gain an upper hand. I was simply explaining how the RULES USED TO WORK. Based on the number of posts you have, I could conclude that you're either a relatively new player, or maybe just don't post on the forums very much. In either case, I can only assume that maybe you either weren't around, or didn't see any of the old discussions about this. The FACT is...Levi USED to work exactly as I stated. You could cast Necrotic Unmaking regardless of how many Wounds you had left, simply because you might fail the spell, and therefore, the ability was not guaranteed to do damage. Personally, I don't think the current wording in the Rules Manual or the FAQ strictly disallows that either, but I will gladly play without that benefit.

I point all these things out just to help people understand the history. I've been playing Levi for over a year and half, and Malifaux overall for 2 years. I'm not trying to have a $$$$$$$$ing match, but just saying....I do know what I'm talking about a little bit, and therefore it doesn't require a discourse like this.

Obviously, the original poster was looking for some rules forum type help, that's why I pointed him that direction.