Iron Quill Preliminary Round Voting!

[edonil]

I'm starting to think dropping the feedback guidelines might not be a bad idea. Finding time to write a story is going to be hard enough for some people, and how detailed I went with them might actually scare some great writers out of the competition altogether, whether as a time issue or that they don't have much to say. I want to run another round of this with dropping that section down to its bare bones, see if we get more interest and a faster turn around on things.

[ThePandaDirector]

As far as providing more feedback, I have little more to give. Whether you've commented on a story or not, there comes a point when there's nothing else that can be really said and done until the next story.

I think by replacing formal feedback "criteria" with a formal way of rewarding general feedback, then maybe that would stimulate feedback without alienating others. The main problem with feedback is that if someone lands a massive wall of text, breaking the story down in detail, then many will look at that and say "well I've got nothing of substance to contribute to that, best to say nothing at all"*. It's the same issue I've seen in Puppet Wars playtesting, people don't realise just how valuable all forms of feedback are. Emphasis should be placed on that fact to encourage feedback big and small.

I think the core thread (this one) is really important as it is what gives the stories a higher purpose, brings people together and directs them to each others' stories. I think if this thread became a hub for all general feedback and tips (tips on action, changing POV, etc), then it would not only be useful to every author, but help stimulate activity, maintain momentum and attract outside attention. I also think that during the writing phase there should be opportunities for us to help each other pre-submission. Linking it all to the opening post keeps it organised and accessible.

Considering I've probably profitted most from this, it's only right I give some back =D

*Polite people need to learn to be more opinionated, opinionated people need to learn to be more polite.

[Hardlec]

When do we write the next story; what are the parameters?

I'd like to get fellow author's opinions/advice/whinings/sagacity on how to use tablets to compose with.

[ThePandaDirector]

When is voting gonna close? I've handed in my weighted votes, what about everyone else? I'd like to see what the final scores are gonna be.

Don't know whether edonil is gonna do another preliminary round, but likely won't see anything till August. Saying that there will be some activity from now till Gencon

[Fetid Strumpet]

I haven't had tme to hand in the weighted votes as I'm so busy at work. =/ Summer stock is gonna be the end of me I'm sure.

[Mako]

Yeah, this last week has turned pretty insane for me too. I will get round to reading them soon, I swear!

[edonil]

Yeah, I'm waiting on a couple weighted votes still and then I'll announce the winner. If people would like, I do have some ideas for another preliminary round so we can keep adjusting the rules, and I can announce that before I announce the winner of this one?

[UberGruber]

I think in future there needs to be a definite cut-off point for votes to be in, be it a week, a fornight, or whatever after the voting opens. Obviously at any given time certain people will be too pressured to partipate in either writing or voting, that, I think, is natural and the people concerned will tend to vary anyway.

Myself, I'm not suire what anothe Preliminary Round would be for. Are all rules to be set in stone for every round after the preliminaries are over? If not, why not just start with the first round?

I do think we should establish a few things though. This isn't meant to single anyone out as being 'at fault', it's not like anything of real consequence is at stake, it's merely to establish what will and won't be eligible going forward. I don't mind what's decided, I just think it should be clear.

1) what happens if an author who's entered any given round doesn't vote in that round (for whatever reason)? Are they disqualified or does it not matter?

2) what happens if an author doesn't comment on all (or any) of the stories?

3) is word count an absolute limit or are longer stories going to be allowed at the judge's discretion

[Mako]

Definitely need to establish a time limit for voting, I'm one of the ones that's not done it yet and I agree we should have a cut off point or it risks dragging out for ages! And what happens if an author doesn't vote.

Though I'm not sure I can think of anything useful or relevant to say on some of the stories, anything I thought of on one or two was already covered before. So I don't think that penalising not commenting on every one would be necessarily helpful, it might just result in inane and useless comments (from me, I hasten to add, not necessarily anyone else!).

As for word count, my vote would be no more than the limit. If you give people an extra few hundred words, they'll get used, and before you know it well have an upper limit of 5 or 6000, and there's no way I have time to read so many of those in a short time! *wink*

[edonil]

I think I'm going to call the round and voting finished by the end of this week, and I do think a time limit is in order. Because I'm trying to be aware of people having busy lives, I'd say two weeks. As for issues of what happens with various things, I'm not sure. Need to consider that. Disqualification is something I don't want to have to go to, but I'm not sure what else to do. The comment thing is a big one that I want to see people work on, but I'm not sure about disqualifying someone for not commenting, because they did put the work and time into writing an entry.

As far as author voting, if someone hasn't voted in the time limit, their vote is spoiled. I think that'll be the simplest one.

Additionally, I don't know about writing length and how I'm going to deal with that. Once again, I don't want to punish someone for writing a longer story- they wrote it! But I think a strike policy might be due here, with a first time being given a pass, but a second time disqualified.

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

Oh, and as far as getting in a second preliminary round, I want to try a round with loosened feedback responses. The other reason for it is to keep the momentum going for those of you who have the time to write before Gencon gets started. I think this event even more than the Iron Painter is going to be about momentum for people, and trying to maintain it is going to be a thing for me to work on.

[Absolution Black]

Ok, weighted votes sent...sorry its a bit late but i decided to take a vacation right on closing of the submissions lol.

And i will hold my hands up and say I am one of those who hasnt got around to leaving feedback for the stories so if that rules me out, thats completely ok by me...I understand the reasoning behind it.

In fact, if it does become a requirement to leave feedback in future rounds, i may have to withdraw from the contest as time constraints are now seriously choking my free time...

Abs

[ThePandaDirector]

Some random thoughts:

Perhaps differentiating each round a bit more would maintain momentum, while decreasing the word count may be harder for some people (takes them longer to figure out how to fit a story into the word count), but would allow far more people to read them and provide feedback. So with those two points in mind:

Reduce word count to 1500 (bare with me). A decent paragraph (main body) ranges from 300-500 words. 1500 words should be enough for a short story, whereas the writer focusses on a singular aspect (characterisation, setting, etc) and allows for more detailed and brutal editing.

Each round has a Theme and Ingredient. The theme is a semantic ingredient, and keeps the entrants relatively universal and stimulates creative contrasting (note: I think an image would make for a good interpretive theme). The ingredient can be anything, but is a little less open to interpretation since it is something that physically exists in the story. Each rounds winner may choose one of three optional themes for the next round; a little incentive to take part in consecutive rounds.

On top of the Theme and Ingredient each round has a Mode. The Mode is a single rule that determines how that round will be played.

Mode Types

Co-op: Two writers team up to write a 3000 word story (1500 words each). They have to work together to tell a coherent story and play to their strengths while balancing out their weaknesses. This allows for bigger stories, but halves the number of entrants therefore halving the potential workload for readers.

Mystery Ingredient: The Ingredient is not announced until the last week. Writers will need to squeeze it in at the last minute as best they can

Pass the Parcel: First week writers write 500 words of their story. The next week they pass the story over to someone else who writes the next 500 words and so on. Each story is then voted on and the winner is determined by the writer with the most combined votes from the three stroies they were involved in.

Not of this World: The story may not take place in Malifaux or any similar world. If it helps writers could choose from a clear list of acceptable genres.

A Different Perspective: The story must be written in either 1st or 3rd person (or 2nd person for Thechosenone ).

I Saw That Coming: Writers must either state the ending of their story or start with the end. For example if I was writing about a sea voyage I would state "the boat is sunk by an iceberg". Refer to historical narratives as well as Bertolt Brecht's 'verfrumdungseffekt' (distancing effect). Be as vague or precise with how you detail the ending (you got the skillz?)

Puzzler: Your story must have something in it that isn't clear, e.g. an ambiguous ending, a vague setting/time period or a literal puzzle. The idea is to confuse the reader without confusing them On top of the usual votes people can state whether the Puzzle was Hard (couldn't figure it out, but enjoyed it), Medium (took awhile), Easy (worked out in one read through) or Confusing (say whit?) which has the extra weighted vote of 3, 2, 1, 0.

Silence is Golden: Your story may not contain any dialogue; spoken, written or otherwise.

You're Grounded!: Your story may only take place in a single location (one room, one field, one tiny section of outer space, etc).

Forever Alone: You may only have one character, alone in the space they occupy. They may briefly encounter a single "character", but no one they know.

The Gauntlet: Writers must write their story in a single day/night. They may ask for the Theme and Ingredient when they wish, but must submit their story within 12hrs after they receive them and may only edit within those 12hrs. Perhaps making individual Theme/Ingredients would avoid cheating.

Anyway, I think that shorter stories and more original rounds would help maintain interest and momentum, otherwise there is little to differentiate it from normal stories in the forum.

Edited July 4, 2012 by ThePandaDirector

[UberGruber]

I rather agree with shorter being easier all round. The flip side is that people often like to write longer stories and object to being 'unduly constrained' by low word count. Which I can see but I don't think it's actually very possible to run a competition like this -- ie over a prolongued period -- with word counts even as low as 3000.

There are a few reasons for that but mainly it's because people just don't have time to be reading 30 000 words in a month in addition to their normal life's reading for relaxation, let alone writing 3000. Perhaps with an effort they can barely manage the latter so as to participate. Yet then they struggle to read everyone else's.

1500 words halves the problem -- in fact more than halves it because if you had 10 hours available and needed 20 hours to write, read and leave brief comments for 3000 words as a limit then you'd basically solve the problem entirely by dropping to 1500 words. The example's crude and the timings of course arbitrary, but the principle is correct.

The only one of panda's examples I'd be chary of is the 'co-op' because a) what happens if my partner can't complete, and while two minds are sometimes better than one, they often take more than twice as long to produce a result.

1500 words would, I think allow monthly turnaround -- so everyone knows exactly what's what regarding timing. Example:

1st: competition opens for entries.

18th: entries close (if you can't find time for 1500 words in 18 days this month, maybe next month will be okay).

20th: voting opens. No more editing. Also next month's theme, iten and restrictions are posted though no stories may be submitted until the 1st. this would allow people to plan ahead and start writing -- so you have in fact nearly a month to think and write).

27th: voting closes. If Edonil and/or the poll doesn't have your vote by now, too late.

28th-31st: winner is announced (giving Edonil 1-4 days depending on the month to tally up and post who won.

From the 1st to the 20th, as much editing in response to comments or just authorial whim is allowed as they like. Beyond that you are disqualified from winning but not from the warm glow of having tweaked your story.

[ThePandaDirector]

The only one of panda's examples I'd be chary of is the 'co-op' because a) what happens if my partner can't complete, and while two minds are sometimes better than one, they often take more than twice as long to produce a result.

I suppose. While trying to think of ways it could work I just came up with alternatives to Pass the Parcel, which I think is a better way of handling this idea.

I also agree with your dates.

[Hardlec]

Limit to 1500 words, deadline 500 words per week. (Many writers are not good with arithmetic, close is fine, but no "all nighters at the deadline."

Start with the end is good. Several good stories begin: "We all died."

By all means fair unfair and magical if needed, keep the stories in Malifaux Universe.

[ThePandaDirector]

Limit to 1500 words, deadline 500 words per week.

Huh? Are you saying writers should have to produce 500 words a week (it's the use of "deadline" that confuses me)?

(Many writers are not good with arithmetic, close is fine, but no "all nighters at the deadline."

I'm terrible at maths, but I can read the word count on Microsoft Word Also it's a maximum word count, I'd say with a 10% leeway.

I also don't know what you are referring to with "all nighters at the deadline". Do you mean you just don't want writers to be forced to write before the deadline (which hasn't really been suggested)?

By all means fair unfair and magical if needed, keep the stories in Malifaux Universe.

I can't make sense of this sentence other than you want the stories to be set in Malifaux. I do still think it would be fun to do a (single) round on something different, even if everyone had to do sci-fi; a change is always good.

Sorry if I'm misinterpreting you.

[Hardlec]

Not all people have Microsoft Word. Is paying Bill Gates going to be a requirement? I use a tablet PC.

500 words per week. Regular, weekly submissions. No stay-up-all-night and just make the final deadline.

BTW this site is very tablet unfriendly. I can't paste into a reply. I have no ctrl key.

[Mako]

I don't think a weekly requirement is right, not everyone writes in steady blocks like that. I know I tend to write in flurries, then do nothing for a bit, then write another burst. Which means 1000 words in one session when I've got the mood going, then maybe nothing for two weeks until I get back to it.

Speaking of getting back to it, I'll have my votes in on Saturday. If I don't, go on without me! Every time Ive sat down this week, someone's found something for me to do that's taken the evening out!

[ThePandaDirector]

Not all people have Microsoft Word. Is paying Bill Gates going to be a requirement? I use a tablet PC.

500 words per week. Regular, weekly submissions. No stay-up-all-night and just make the final deadline.

BTW this site is very tablet unfriendly. I can't paste into a reply. I have no ctrl key.

There's always OpenOffice and LibreOffice for those who care

A tablet? Like an oversized iphone? Don't know much about them because ironically I don't want to waste money on smart phones and tablets (or a Mac for that matter). Don't know if your's is one that can have a keyboard attachement or something (or buy a cheap notebook laptop for under £100). I'm guessing you work at an office or a job that doesn't require a keyboard. I just know I couldn't live without one, and unfortunately most websites have yet to adapt to tablet technology (though I do believe this site was tested on the ipad). But I'm sure you could explain to Wyrd (try Ratty) the details of how this site could support them better yourself, I know they'll listen.

So yeah, I don't know how you're able to write large text anywhere else, if not here. Feel free to do anything you want to make it easier, whether that's posting 300 words, editing, posting another 300 words four days later, fine, so long as you state that it's not finished I won't read it until you ask me to. There's no need for anyone to either be forced to write the day before the deadline or for preset sub-deadlines, but everyone has their own method of doing things and I respect that.

edonil informs me results will be up Saturday, though if Mako needs one day more ("one day to a new beginning. Raise the flag of freedom high. Every man will be a king") I'm sure no one would complain waiting till Sunday =]

[UberGruber]

I think people should be able to submit any amount of text at any time and any amount of times between entries being opened and the deadline. That accomodates last-minuters, steady workers, erratic workers, fast workers and all combinations that I can see.

And we might take no story as finished until the deadline and no story as complete (which is different) unless it says END at the end. Then people know if they're looking at part of a story or the whole thing. But as we'd allow full editing -- any amount of changes -- until the deadline, everyone would have to make sure that after the they re-read any stories they'd previously looked at just in case changes of significance had been introduced.

In short, how one may post should be as inclusive as possible, I think with the only limits being the opening and closing of submissions.

I do, however, think that if we are to have a 1500 word limit then that should actually be the limit. Given that different word-processers count differently, clearly there should be some leeway. But I've yet to see as much as a 5% difference in count between word-processors, so I think anything that comes out as 1550 words would in fact be too long.

And presumably we have no minimum count (so a very short story would be acceptable if it managed to do everything required by the round).

[Mako]

Good news! The relatives that were the only risk to my reading tomorrow have decided to stay away, so nothing should stop me finally getting votes sorted! *grin*